[lowell]

3 years probation, no 2012 postseason, all wins in 2008 and 2009 vacated and 15 scholarship reduction. Don't keep up with the history of cheating programs but on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the severest how does this rank?

[Old School]

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/footbal...nctions_031212

[TouchdownJesus]

I know a guy that plays football at NC State. He said he finds it so difficult to get things done b/c they practice way over the amount of time they are allowed per week.

Didn't Michigan get busted for that a couple years ago.

Everybody cheats. NCAA is most corrupt organization there is. Just a matter of who gets caught and how they are dealt with.

[Mr. Poon]

Originally Posted by lowell

Don't keep up with the history of cheating programs but on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the severest how does this rank?

I would rate it pretty close to a 10, considering that those years that they did cheat, they weren't even really close to competing for a conference championship. Definitely severe punishment for cheating your way to the Meineke Car Care Bowl.

[Old School]

Originally Posted by TouchdownJesus

I know a guy that plays football at NC State. He said he finds it so difficult to get things done b/c they practice way over the amount of time they are allowed per week.

Didn't Michigan get busted for that a couple years ago.

Everybody cheats. NCAA is most corrupt organization there is. Just a matter of who gets caught and how they are dealt with.

the sad part is there are folks who refuse to accept the fact.

"one and done"...tells everyone about the state of college athletes..


STUDENT/ATHLETE...

[Cie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Poon

I would rate it pretty close to a 10, considering that those years that they did cheat, they weren't even really close to competing for a conference championship. Definitely severe punishment for cheating your way to the Meineke Car Care Bowl.

LOL

[Blackman]

Originally Posted by TouchdownJesus

I know a guy that plays football at NC State. He said he finds it so difficult to get things done b/c they practice way over the amount of time they are allowed per week.

Didn't Michigan get busted for that a couple years ago.

Everybody cheats. NCAA is most corrupt organization there is. Just a matter of who gets caught and how they are dealt with.

I can't speak for every school, but I played (if you call what we did playing) a Division 1 sport in college for all four years and we went over the 20 hours a week routinely in season, and out of season, we blew the 8 hours or whatever out of the water....and this was a small time no revenue generating sport....I have to think the football players are pushing way past the 20 hour rule each week.

Tough sentence for a hoops school.

[TouchdownJesus]

I don't like it but at the same time I'm not all that upset. I've gotten my hopes up for UNC football over 30 times and what almost always happens is a mediocre season followed by a mediocre bowl..if that.

I do hate not being able to compete for the conference title next year and there's always that possibility that you get off to a good start and the schedule is favorable, etc.

I hate trying to defend my team by saying "well everyone else cheats too"....but they do. SMU got the death penalty for just going overboard on what Texas and others around them had been doing for years.

OldSchool, I couldn't agree more. And yes, "one and done" tells us everything we need to know and then some

[ppabart]

Only three other teams have gotten more scholorships taken away from them than UNC did here (USC, Texas Tech, SMU). The one year bowl ban too......and apparently now Hakeem Nicks must sever all ties with the school, as well. I only assume that means he's not allowed at any UNC event and any and all memorabilia that UNC may have of him must be taken down. This isn't anything like the Reggie Bush thing because Reggie didn't give a shit about USC (and vice versa)....whereas Nicks meant the world to UNC. Hell, even Nicks is a better pro than Bush.

I guess what fires me up about this is the way this whole process is handled. Yes we cheated and got caught. But so many others have too, lets take Ohio St for one. How'd that end up for them though? Not quite as bad as this. Why do you think that is? The big loser here is Larry Fedora. He couldnt have thought that he was walking into this situation. Yes he knew there was punishment to come, but this severe?

The asshole for the NCAA even said that this should be a "cautionary tale" to other schools. So basically, he's blatently and openly saying that he's making an example out of us. UNC will not appeal because they don't want to ruffle any feathers. But I damn well guarantee that this type of punishment wouldnt have happened to the UNC basketball program had a similar thing occurred.

The NCAA not having any kind of accountability is the real issue. There is no consistency in their rulings, and they arbitrarily hand out punishments. That's just not the way things should be done. I'm not saying I have a solution, but the way the NCAA is allowed to conduct themselves isn't right and the punishments they hand out aren't justice.

I know all of this comes across as sour grapes. It's not. I understand that we fucked up (thanks Butch), and therefore should be punished. But why exactly did we cooperate if this is what awaited us? The NCAA is certanly sending a piss poor message to other schools in that regard.

TouchdownJesus did say something that resonated with me. I, too, always get up for the new UNC football season thinking that this one is going to be the one (kinda like a Cubs fan). Unfortunately, this year, that's not going to be there, and that's a sad thing

[TouchdownJesus]

The Ohio State situation is what makes this an absolute joke. They decide to suspend 5 guys and then let them play in the big bowl game and let them do it the following year against mostly bad teams. On top of all that, Troy Smith left early and then for some reason serves his suspension in the NFL??? Where he wasn't going to play in those games anyway...

Then you have the Cam Newton thing which basically just went away as they go on to win the national title.

It is sour grapes but its way more than that. Its tough to watch others cheat and to basically "know" it goes on everywhere and always has...and to watch your team be called cheaters as if everyone else is playing by the rules, and then to have all this come down at Fedora's start.

[WhatsHisNuts]

• University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill is responsible for multiple violations, including academic fraud, impermissible agent benefits, ineligible participation and a failure to monitor its football program.

• Over the course of three seasons, six football student-athletes competed while ineligible as a result of these violations, and multiple student-athletes received impermissible benefits totaling more than $31,000.

• While employed by the university, a former assistant football coach [John Blake] was compensated by a sports agent [Gary Wichard] for the access he provided to student-athletes and failed to disclose the income to the university. The former assistant coach and a former tutor [Wiley] both committed unethical conduct and failed to cooperate with the investigation.

If you're defense is "everyone else does it", that just isn't good enough. Look at these allegations. They were out of control on multiple fronts. It's one thing when it is one bad apple, but this covers a lot of ground.

If the NCAA is serious,it should start handing out the death penalty more freely. That's the only way to get the attention of people that can affect change. The negative incentives do not currently outweigh the positive ones.

[saint]

Originally Posted by lowell

3 years probation, no 2012 postseason, all wins in 2008 and 2009 vacated and 15 scholarship reduction. Don't keep up with the history of cheating programs but on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the severest how does this rank?

Can't do much chest thumping in basketball this year, huh lowell?

[saint]

And in terms of the punishment, no sour grapes here from me. You do the crime you do the time.

It's not like it was...

just improper benefits

just improper tutor/academic issues

just indirectly having an agent on staff payroll....

it was ALL of them. Hey, I'm impressed we even tried to cheat to that degree. That's what it takes to be a top BCS program. If you come here and deny that, you really are delusional. And mr. poon is correct, all that cheating and not much to show for it. But....had we had our full team that year, I feel strongly we would have been top 5. It was a weak year in college football and our D would have been #1 in the country. But let's be honest folks, as soon as 5 star Marvin Austin signed here you had to know there was some behind the scenes stuff.

The big thing that made this different was the John Blake aspect. That really is a significant blow, and Butch was smart about isolating himself from direct implication, but he knew.

I'm glad it's finally over and out in the open. The unknown was more damaging IMO. But bart i agree, the NCAA really took forever.

Moral of the story: do not cooperate with the NCAA during an investigation (see Ohio St, USC, ...)

[TouchdownJesus]

My complaint isn't that we are being punished so harshly.....its that almost no one else is punished at all.

So what I'm saying is, either don't punish us so severe OR go investigate everyone, b/c we all know a lot is going on, and then start dishing it out.

I feel like we committed murder and got 50 years. Several other teams are committing anything from speeding to armed robbery and they are all free to go.

So yeah, I don't mean to use the "everyone is doing it" logic but its still pretty shitty to know what really goes on and yet we are the only cheaters. Give me a break.

[lowell]

Originally Posted by saint

Can't do much chest thumping in basketball this year, huh lowell?

Chest thumping? UNCheaters have 4 of top 16 players in mock NBA draft and they get beaten by 33 pts by FSU and need some help from refs to steal a game from State. UNCheaters were overwhelming preseason fav to win the title but not sure which is worst -their failure to distance themselves from ACC field when they have 4 of the the top All ACC players on their team or that butt ugly womens coach that took her top 10 team to not making the NCAA field. I remember your bragging post when UNC threw out about 3 million for the cheating football coach and you thought big things were ahead for the program. The whole country now is aware of the program but for the wrong reason. The carolina way- Cheat until you get caught. As far as Duke goes they have a great year with the loss of irving,Smith and Singler. No complaints from me.

[TouchdownJesus]

The State game was pretty shitty. Other than that, Florida State is pretty good and that kid Dulkies, he has had TWO good games this year. Both against Carolina. What the hell? He is terrible but somehow hits shots against us.

That said, yeah we have talent, but also missing 2 starters in that tourney and just beat the shit out of Duke. If not for three 25-footers and some bullshit calls in the last 2 minutes, we would have beaten Duke the first time as well.

State got dicked my Duke too, the same way they got dicked by Carolina. But most State fans won't call it that, b/c they don't want to hurt their relationship with their big brother...lol.

[saint]

Originally Posted by lowell

Chest thumping? UNCheaters have 4 of top 16 players in mock NBA draft and they get beaten by 33 pts by FSU and need some help from refs to steal a game from State. UNCheaters were overwhelming preseason fav to win the title but not sure which is worst -their failure to distance themselves from ACC field when they have 4 of the the top All ACC players on their team or that butt ugly womens coach that took her top 10 team to not making the NCAA field. I remember your bragging post when UNC threw out about 3 million for the cheating football coach and you thought big things were ahead for the program. The whole country now is aware of the program but for the wrong reason. The carolina way- Cheat until you get caught. As far as Duke goes they have a great year with the loss of irving,Smith and Singler. No complaints from me.

You follow women's basketball? I always knew you were a pussy.

I'm sorry Duke isn't very good this year, you seem angrier than usual. I also didn't know they crowned teams based on pre-season rankings.

And if you want to say we stole one from state last week, you also have to say you guys stole one at home when you were down 20 and k's refs called 10 fouls in the first 3 mins of the 2nd half help dook hobble back into the game.

[Cie]

Unc is a football nobody, so this is a non-issue from where I'm standing. I couldn't possibly read all the long posts, but opted to chime in anyway. Heels cheated in every way possible. if I recall correctly, Davis' former nanny was involved in the academic fraud. LOL. Punishment fits crime.

Anyway, has anyone else noticed Lowell's butt is always hurting. Geez, it must be tough.

[BobbyBlueChip]

Originally Posted by Cie Grant

I couldn't possibly read all the long posts, but opted to chime in anyway.

It's the honesty that's so refreshing.

It would be hard to get caught cheating more than UNC did. . . . but ever since boys were getting raped in locker rooms at Penn State, I'm less concerned about all forms of cheating.

[TouchdownJesus]

Cie Grant, I understand not reading it all. To sort of sum it up from UNC perspective....we know we got what we deserved. We're a lot more upset that no one else is getting what they deserve....perfect example is Ohio State.

Everyone is cheating and we got what we deserved. All we want is for everyone else to get what they deserve, no more and no less.

[Cie]

Ncaa coddles top programs when possible. Unc hoops would receive same favoritism as top football programs. In this case, Unc was apparently cheating in every form possible. Butch Davis should not allowed to coach again in div1.

[TouchdownJesus]

I completely agree. Maybe I should be thankful as a Carolina basketball fan but honestly I'd just like to have a fair system across the board...

[ppabart]

Originally Posted by Cie Grant

Ncaa coddles top programs when possible. Unc hoops would receive same favoritism as top football programs. In this case, Unc was apparently cheating in every form possible. Butch Davis should not allowed to coach again in div1.

One of my long posts says exactly this

[Four Corners]

Originally Posted by lowell

3 years probation, no 2012 postseason, all wins in 2008 and 2009 vacated and 15 scholarship reduction. Don't keep up with the history of cheating programs but on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the severest how does this rank?

I am 50 years old and it is one time NCSU can get a leg up on UNC...blast away..in hoops there is no rivalry...we own U! Go mile some cows

[saint]

[TouchdownJesus]

^ hahahahahahahaha! what a game. The bullshit foul on Rivers' "3" at the end that almost kept them in the game....that defined Duke's entire "overachieving" season

[Mr. Poon]

this is fun to gain a little insight into the tobacco road rivalry.

[TouchdownJesus]

haha, ask any questions you like Mr. Poon

As for rivalries......I've been a Carolina fan my whole life so that makes 30+ years. I guess we are all different, but I never minded NC State much. To be honest, never minded Duke much for a long time...

Early 90's I got where I didn't like Duke too much. Hurley, Laettner, etc. But still didn't dislike them.

My hatred of Duke came around the late 90's.....Coach K's back injury and after a couple years you sort of figured out he came back with a vengeance but a huge part of that vengeance was to take advantage of everything possible. Flop, flail all around the court, hack on defense....totally control the refs and just pretty much cheat the game of basketball.

My main dislike of State.....I hated Amato and his brand of Thug Light and it was funny to see his stupid players cost them games. Other than that, its mainly just in response to State fans hatred of Carolina. You can only hear "Tarholes" so many times and how they follow your infractions more than ESPN does before you start not liking them.

So its more like I despise Duke, hate Duke's fans, and really dislike State fans, while for the most part don't mind State's teams. And of course Duke in football is completely irrelevant.

[East2West]

THEY CHEAT ON THE PROGRAM....BUT...ONE THING I KNOW IS....VEGAS CHEAT ON BETTORS...ANY COMPLAIN?????

[TouchdownJesus]

If you can explain further, I'd love to complain more