"The" phrase

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
Time for a Change

A FOX News Poll asked New Hampshire Democratic primary voters for their opinions on the most important candidate qualities. The ability to bring about "change" was No. 1 ? at 39 percent. That far outpaced "the right experience."

And respondents said Barack Obama was the most likely candidate to bring about that change. He gets 47 percent support ? more than double Hillary Clinton at 21 and John Edwards at 16 percent.

That message has not been lost on the candidates ? and even the Republicans are all over it. During Saturday night's debates ? the top 10 candidates in the two parties mentioned "change" a total of 91 times. The Democrats had a two-to-one margin on the "change" scoreboard ? 61-to-30.

Leading the way was Hillary Clinton, who mentioned "change" 25 times, once saying, "I embody change."

John Edwards and Barack Obama came in with 14 "changes" apiece. Bill Richardson mentioned it eight times.

Meet the Panel For the Republicans, Mitt Romney led with 10; Rudy Giuliani had nine; Mike Huckabee five; John McCain three; Fred Thompson two, and Ron Paul one.
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
It will be interesting tonight when votes come in who the independents went with. And the young. The guard seems to be changing.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
What will be interesting is when they have to define the changes--and how they will be implemented ;)Haven't heard a peep on
-immigration
-shoring up ssn medicare/medicare
--economy

to name a few "minor" objectives

Personally I like to here some some solutions when they wake up from the dream.

I ask Bryant same question elsewhere and still waiting--any other volunteers-or can we confirm just the "present" vote :)
 

Jabberwocky

Registered User
Forum Member
Mar 3, 2006
3,491
29
0
Jacksonville, FL
-immigration

I am still waiting to hear from you DTB wtf the republicans did with 6 years of control of the exec and legislative branches to address this issue.

I am at a loss to understand how you believe republicans are for a secured border. You might look into the North American Union and Pat Buchanan's State of Emergency book as a start.
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
DTB one thing that will have to change is borrowing from our future. Were not paying for last 6 years. We can not continue with out it costing us way more then tax hikes to clean up some bills. We need a effort to kill some spending and stop Iraq war spending fast is one. Our military has to think past more soldiers and big boats. We need the future army to get built. We need those who can to pay a little more tax for the great things this country has done for them. To do it with out complaning. DTB I mean above your pay grade.
 

roc612

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 1, 2006
167
0
0
Jabberwocky,
I remember u asking DOGS THAT BARK about the 6 yrs of republican control of the executive and congressional branches in regards to immigration and border security.
He doesnt EVER answer when boxed in to a corner. Lets face it -he cant get out from under on this subject. He has no EXCUSES for the GOP on the issue because there arent any.


DJV,
we are 9 trillion in debt (with CHINA owning much of it) and this war that GWB lied about to get us into it is now costing us 250 million a day.
But heck at least Exxon Mobil is recording record profits for the last two years.
Fvcking amazin if u ask me
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
Ok I'll give up on asking forum Dems what the change is--is evident after 3 queries and no answers-
Could say same for Rebs on their change rant--isn't any.

However appropiate political theme due to fact of Pres neg ratings only surpassed by congress neg ratings.

Fact of the matter on both--its busness as usual.

If your a Dem you got to decide which attorney you want
If your a Reb you another entrapenuer or military guy

Same agenda's from both parties on
-- taxes/economics
--war/terror
I'll add immigration since a couple above commented on it--You got one Rebs failing to enforce laws already in effect-to counter the Dems and their sancuary cities- however have stopped their drivers license/ID's for illegals crusade temporarily.;)

On side note believe immigration will be deciding factor in Nov and will be thorn in McCains bid nor Reb nomination.

Promises neither will/can keep

Bi-Partisanship--they been fighting for years and will continue
Lower cost of healthcare--all candidates batting 100% on failure to do in both parties
education--you can't force em to attend school or study.
Fight poverty (see above) give a man a fish -you've fed him for a day-teach him to fish you've fed him for a lifetime.
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
However appropiate political theme due to fact of Pres neg ratings only surpassed by congress neg ratings.

.

Congress has a bad rating because they give Bush everything he wants!Don't worry, these guys will be replaced as soon as possible too. The reason everyone is touting change is because no one wants to be linked with your boy Bush.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
Congress has a bad rating because they give Bush everything he wants!Don't worry, these guys will be replaced as soon as possible too. The reason everyone is touting change is because no one wants to be linked with your boy Bush.

You don't have to worry about Bush after Nov Stevie--he's went as far as "the people" can take him.

They might be pissed at congress for only getting minimum wage passed after 2 years as they spend most their time with the Jefferson dude with 17 indictments against him wanting investigations on others-and on continuing with same ole retreat chant --however that may be over now.

Was disappointed Stevie when I saw your reply--thought matbe you had some insight on these "changes" but in same boat as everyone else :)
 

Toledo Prophet

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 5, 2005
2,384
2
0
53
Toledo, Ohio
Perhaps change is linked to stopping the business as usual that is going on at all levels of Washington....its funny the resident righty sorta mocks the whole concept of change....is that to mean you favor the status quo? Please, I cant believe that, oh thats right you're fne with the performance of America in your lifetime. Perhaps you need to get out more then because while I am "fine" with it, I know--no demand--that we can do better.....I think the change is how business will be done in Washington, rather than giving us the best government money can buy--you know the one where the R's cry about illegal immigration, but then allow their corporate backers to break the laws time and time again relative to hiring them and so forth. ;)

We want change from that hollow rhetoric that the leaders in Washington have been giving us for years now, whether its the bland calls for bi-partisanship, but then claiming that anyone who opposes this president is somehow unpatriotic and aiding terrorism.....or the shallow assurances that we're looking out for the middle class only to pass legislation that helps entitiies like big oil, big pharm and big insurance co's at the expense of the common tax payer.....or the boasts of tax cuts and fiscal responsibility only to be washed away with sopping giveways to the political donor class and pseudo, looks good on paper tax cuts that end up costing the common man more in hidden tax and fee increases and an untenable future deficit.....or the calls for new innovative ideas, only to see those new ideas either ignored or subjected to scare tactic media campaigns against those ideas on behalf of the comfy powers that be......or the brave face put on by our leaders saying they are protecting us from terror only to find out its false bravado and that whatever military incursions we've done recently have been to benefit certain entitites with little regard to if its actually making us or the world a safer place.

I could go on and on and on.....change is an intangible concept.....its how we go about our business. It about how we go about working as a representative government. Its going from being the best government money can buy, back to being a progressive government, for the people, by the people.

Change is acceptance of ideas that bubble up from the people or that they demand....rather than vetoing them and claiming that "I" and only "I" know better.......change is conducting business on certain issues as the public demands, rather than hearing from the Halls of Congress, that well, "we" have other ideas about what "we" feel are more pressing concerns.

Candidates like Rudy, Romney, Hillary, Thompson represent the old guard....the ones who want to maintain the status quo, who deep down want to keep the country partisanly divided and needs these problems we have kept unsolved because doing so helps their political aims. The ones who can cite a stat for anything to prove their way is correct and working, while ignoring other evidence that proves where, how and why its not working;) .....like immigration. The R's dont want it solved because without it, much of the fear tactics they use will disappear, while their corporate cronies might have to pay more for labor. Meanwhile the D's see it as a way to perhaps expand their voting base all the whle patting themselves on the back for their "liberal" good will.

Guys like Obama, Paul, Edwards and even Huckabee speak a good game right now...its why groups like Unity 08 are grabbing something of a foothold as well.....Obama and Paul hammer the theme home that business as usual can not continue, even though they are on opposite ends of the spectrum. I bet if we were subjected to just having those two speak to each other at a roundtable about ideas, we all we be 'huh, those guys have some ideas, lets mesh them together and get 'er done." Meanwhile the other candidates would be trying to outpatriot the other and would refuse to sit with one another on principle alone.

The public is beginning to see through all of this. We probably need 2-3 more elections where people powered candidates--like in 2006--come out on top before the change can be complete, but electing a people powered president would be an important step. Iowa was a big step towards that. Last night, not so much. And we need someone in there who will represent the people, rather than the powerful. Someone who will embrace ideas from the public, rather than ignore them and claim to now better like our current president.

Sorry....rant over.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
I like these replys from anonymous/no address posters--will reply later--messing with market now.

In the meantime you can explain the "change on fixing immigration and how adding the grand daddy of all entitlement program is going to shore up those already in place--that should keep you bust untill this evening when i get back ?
 

escarzamd

...abides.
Forum Member
Dec 26, 2003
1,266
1
0
56
5ft, pin high......
...now that's a rant. Cathartic......isn't it??

An aside.......two "changes" that are without real ideology behind them, and would have a substantial effect (good or bad? not really sure, yet).......I think of these two ideas as "decriminalizing" politics.....

1) Legitimate campaign finance reform..........have to neutralize the influence of $$$$ in the way our representatives vote. It has destroyed the concept of our government as a true republic.

2) The line-item veto.......of course, this may put a little more power in the exectutive branch's corner (as if there isn't plenty there now already), but it relates to #1 above in that it seems to be the only useful tool to eliminate wasteful spending. It would be a seismic shift in the way our legilative branch operates. They would have to find other currency to trade votes on, but after a time, it may be a more efficient system. Maybe not......someone could educate me on these two topics for sure.

:0corn
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
Was disappointed Stevie when I saw your reply--thought matbe you had some insight on these "changes" but in same boat as everyone else :)

DTB huge changes are needed. Not only your boy Bushes Folly in Iraq but we need Help with Health Care and the porus boarders for starters. Not sure what you don't understand. All those, dem or reps who voted with Bush should be replaced. I call that change. Again, maybe because I am calling for change on both sides of the aisle you don't get it.
 

Toledo Prophet

Registered User
Forum Member
Oct 5, 2005
2,384
2
0
53
Toledo, Ohio
Yep, I guess it was a bit cathatic......not sure if it resonated at all with some people, but maybe now that my user profile explains my hobbies, I will have more credibility. :142smilie

Its easy for me to harp on change and ruffle feathers because I dislike both political parties for their innattention to the American people in deference to certain powers that be. We've been sold a bill of goods by both sides for a long long time now...we are going down the road towards corporatism, which as a student of history scares me......its just I am a bit more vehement against the republican party as it was the party of my upbringing and they speak the loudest and proudest about the bill of goods they're selling. They have an entire news network that promotes their agenda without question with manipulated facts, figures, soundbites and commentary. Anything opposing those viewpoints is subjected to a fear and smear campaign from that network, even when it comes from somebody on their "side" a la Ron Paul.

I like your ideas.....we do need to break up and minimize the political donor class.......sadly, thats who politicians are beholden to these days, rather than us, the people.

And, as for the line item veto....it would be a good tool, my concern would be a partisan president just axing stuff for the sake of axing as retribution for being against him.......but rather than saying "oh there's a concern, then lets not do it" I think we can find ways pretty easy to see the current guy in the oval office doing that....otherwise, I am beginning to think that it would be a worthwhile tool to give to any president....I like how this last Congress took steps to make earmarks public, as opposed to the business as usual practice of past Congresses to hid them privately and in omnibus bills....like the line item idea because it does give the president a chance to put his touch on what is otherwise a congressional document......wonder how constitutional it is, however, as those issues are beyond my scope. :shrug:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,498
173
63
Bowling Green Ky
Thank you Mr Prophet--I like your profile--and have some idea whom I'm speaking to now.

--on the change issue

At least we got a few--line of item-campaign finance reform-deficit

Other than deficit--I find the others very minor.

The big 3 concerns on on exit polls from both parties are immigration war and economy.

Immigration--
--and I have asked on numerous occasions the "changes" Hilliary and Obama anticipate to make--of course no one has answer on the immigration because they avoid this topic like the plauge--hilliary miscued on the drivers licesee gambit and dropped like a rock following it--their prob is it is primary concern--yet they can't piss off their strongest base -minorities
--but we can anticipate after they are elected on the what has happened in the past.While Rebs have done little to enforce current laws--you have the Dems with their santuary cities--ids for illegals and twarting any efforts with liberal judicial elements throwing up roadblocks--case in point
Just had judge nix employer sanctions on verifing SSN cards--
--had another judge in FLA overturn will of people on law that denies voter registration to applicants whose names or identification numbers do not match official records.
One quess who both these judges were appointed by.
So any "change" Dems have on illegals is a certainly a negativev one by my estimates.

economy--
I remarked several times previously which ever part wins in 08 with be looking at some tough times--my reason was expansions goes in cycles
We are coming off some records of expansion however will note these were as of 3rd quarter 9-07 and new report will refect decline in these #'s
September 2007 is the 49th consecutive month of job growth, setting a new record for the longest uninterrupted expansion of the U.S. labor market.
Real GDP grew at a strong 3.8 percent annual rate in the second quarter of 2007. The economy has now experienced nearly six years of uninterrupted growth, averaging 2.7 percent a year since the turnaround in 2001.
Then tack on lowest interest rates in decades--moderate inflation ect--
--and have to ask what changes do I want??
So far only thing I've seen from Dems is raises taxes of corps and tax payers--
Now how is raising taxes "especially Corp" good for economy? They will have to make profits to stay afloat and keep their shareholders happy.Can you think of anyway other than raises prices/laying off workers to reduce costs? How that play out in inflation-jobs and economy.
Does sound good to their voting block though--but they need to remember Corps produce jobs not visa versa and a bit more on inflation--you better figure in cost of food when grain commodities go through the roof on the ethenol drive--and will it save on gas--don't know--but do know it cost more now to produce gas from grain than it does $100 oil?

--the war no use hashing over that as is matter of opinion and I'll respect each side.
However will note once again--don't be to inclined to believe media's portrayal of "majority" is against it--for reference look at article I posted prior by NYT on same issue after the negative press of prison scandal-wmd issues ect just prior to election in 04--seems the press opinion was negated by the facts--ie voters.

back to deficit--agree it is primary concern
have went over this several times but since your new to this section--

The good news--we had set records tax revenues each year and don't expect 07 to be any diff--and this was with tax cut--granted they were ate up by cost of war-911 and Kartrina--however all of these are temporary expenses and can be recouped if tax revenue is adaquate.

However cost of social programs never cease and in fact escalate yearly as the medcare ** program Bush implemented (shame on him).
However only change I can see in Dems road forward is doing nothing to shore up those currently in place but adding to them with grand daddy of all gov healthcare.
--and how they plan to this--same answer they have for everything-more taxes.
Not a concern to most of their demographc block because they pay no taxes--however those such as yourself might be interested in their definition of middle class --which they avoid putting $ amount on.Still trying to figure out how their repeal of tax breaks under GW will have no inpact on middle class--unless their middle class is defined as those that pay no taxes
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top