Dumb MLB Question

[kcwolf]

I'll prefice this question with a brief background: Played minor league baseball and was always told to never slide into first base, unless you were trying to avoid a tag, up line, slightly short of the first base bag.

I got straight A's in math, college and high school, but that was 25 to 30 years ago when teachers had the tools to teach you proper math.

kcwolf

I still remember a little bit about torque/velocity/foot pounds/blah, blah, blah.

When racing to first base, with no tag as part of the equation, why would anyone slide into first base, thinking that was the faster way to the base.

You have lost your exertion/force by leaving your feet......also velocity. But most important force as you no longer have it leaving your feet.

Yet, I see so many runners using the slide as a tactic to get to first base sooner.

It must be another dumb unwritten rule by Commissioner/owner, that has destroyed baseball. I guess discussing Bud the Dud Selig should be discussed in a future thread.

Would like comments on the first base slide, thanks.

kcwolf

ps: we can get into the teachers at another date. I have the best wife on the planet who "helps" Special ED kids. I great teacher amongst bad ones that get too much attention.

 

[Rudy]

The only logic that I can see, having run far too many grounders out myself, is that when you're really hustling to the bag and leaning slightly forward, your legs get a little bit behind and your head gets a little lower to the ground, creating some momentum and a desire to use gravity to fall and throw out your hands forward so they reach base before your feet do.

So often it seems that an upright runner's body will cross the bag before the throw is there, but the reply will show that the feet got there last and the runner was out. I'm one of the few that believes you can get there a hare faster with a headfirst slide, but it still seems unwise because of the much higher injury risk and the likelihood that the umpire is focusing on the bang-bang sound rather than sight. Sound is why they miss so few of those calls while having a much lower accuracy ratio on tags.

The only way I can think of to test the proposition would be to do side-by-side, frame-by-frame analysis of the same runner in different at-bats from the same point in the baseline to 1st base, one time regular and one time sliding.

 

[timbo]

The only SOMEWHAT reasonable explanations I have ever heard is that when a runner slides into first base, it makes a close play tougher for the umpire to call because of the demonstration of extra effort and at times the slide kicks up dust impeding the umpire's vision.

 

[TBONEZ0295]

hi kc.....................

 

[wondo]

NOTE: This post was edited a ton because I was playing NCAA 2004 when writing the first one... didnt make the points I meant to make and was brutal.....

When running to a base (other than 1st) sliding feet first is supposedly quicker than sliding head first. Atleast it is into 2nd base on a steal. Teams are taught to slide feet first rather than head first on a steal. I can't seem to find the logic why (although there are figures to back it up), but it's generally accepted unless you're trying to avoid a tag.

I think that may depend on the person, however, which is faster. Those fast guys do their own thing that nobody else should even try to learn -- getting the sign while leading off the base; looking into the catcher's signal; reading the pitcher differently; etc. Tons of stuff that the typical baserunner wouldn't understand nor carry out well.

But either way, sliding into first is slower. Just like trying to touch it with a certain foot isn't the way to round the bag. Usually the slide is used at first base to just avoid a tag on a bad throw.

KCwolf -- what you see and other people see, is probably not what the coaches want, but for a lot of teams, you see young guys rushed to the bigs without alot of coaching/instincts. So they do these goofy things. They've got all the talent in the world but they need to harness it.

Either that or it's in a latter chapter of MoneyBall where someone else is trying to reinvent the game.

 

[Korn]

The way I see it is this..... Sliding isn't as usefull to first as the other bases due to the fact that you don't have to stop on First base... you can run thru..... so you can run full speed with out slowing down and losing momentum..... when running to 2nd or 3rd you have to stop on the base or else get tagged out.. there fore slowing down as you reach the base....

But running to first it will be faster to just run it out full speed and pass the bag without having to worry about stopping on it to beat the throw..


GL

 

[ferdville]

KC -totally agree. Continually dumbfounded when guys dive head first to 1B...then the ones who need to slide to avoid a tag, always seem to stay UP

 

[fatdaddycool]

Actually it is simple mathematics....As you run to first base velocity increase with distance due to the amount of work put into the running motion. After time you reach maximum velocity the only variable left is distance because you are exerting the same amount of force when using both legs it becomes somewhat of a constant. If you notice the runner will always head first slide off of the dominant leg which is generally stronger. Then the only thing left is distance. Common sense tells us that a longer stick thrown at the same velocity and speed (lining the backs of the sticks up not the front) will reach the goal faster. In other words an 8 foot stick thrown in a ten foot room will hit the wall sooner then a 1 foot stick, its all relative to distance. The thought process is that if maintaing velocity you dive for the bag with an outstretched arm you will arrive sooner. What they don't take into account is that an outstretched leg at a running gait can reach a greater distance than an outstretched arm. Also after the last big push you immediately start to lose velocity due to decrease in force, if you hit the ground before the bag that is even worse, resistance and all that. so in closing, it is faster to run it out.

 

[wondo]

Also too is the fact that some guys can't ****ing run. They look like batman when they run with their arms going everywhichway but staight and their heads down and all that crap. I think the whole issue is more of ignorance than anything else.

 

[heleanth]

I think the answer to why players slide into first base is simply this: The Uecker factor.

The Uecker factor involves things you do to make the coaches and fans think you are faster than you are! Bob used to thumb his hat off on his way to first to make it look like the wind was so strong because he was running so fast that it blew his hat off! Also, it makes it look like he is hustling and trying his hardest. Gets his name mentioned on the radio or TV or Sportscenter!

 

[Valuist]

KC-

As for your initial inquiry, there's no such thing as a stupid question......only stupid baseball players who slide into first base.

 

[auspice]

There is a time when you're taught to slide into first base. It's actually practiced for a brief period in some spring training camps. When in your dash to first, and the throw appears to be VERY much up the line and towards the runner, the corrrect course of action is to slide towards the outside part of the bag so the first baseman can't *sweep* you with a tag as you run past. It's a very difficult judgement and often signaled by the first base coach as he has a better perspective on the throw.

It's sometimes practiced in spring training, sometimes not. Depends on the coaching staff. It's practically never brought north as a part of the regular drills. As *tight* and muscled as the players of today are, it's almost never used. It was used with smaller more mobile baserunners but has fallen out of fancy in todays homerun mania atmosphere.

 

[Spock]

Spock remembers the common line in basketball commentary "Never Leave Your Feet (while passing the ball)"

Guess they dont say that for baseball :nono: :shrug:

 

[Pujo21]

Great Question and Point

Great Question and Point

If avoiding an apparent tag from an errant throw, probably the slide should be used.

But once the runner hits the ground he is no doubt slowed. The ground or dirt has impeded his progress. Point being, you cannot slide faster on dirt and grass to furst base than a man who keeps running.

The only reason for the slide IS TOO SLOW A BASERUNNER DOWN and keep him from going past other bases.

Final thought, how many MPH can a baserunner slide as opposed to a baserunner staying afloat ?

Just my dumb opinion, but i am open to hear evidence that shows me a man is picking up speed by sliding. ???