Flavor of the day: Hold 'em poker?

yyz

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With ESPN showing the highlights from the 2003 WSOP, and the Travel Channel having their Wednesday night routine, it begs the question:

"Is Texas Hold 'Em the latest craze?"

I have recently been invited to play in localized 'backroom' tournies, here in my little town. It seems that every guy with a deck of cards thinks that he is the next Chris Moneygrubber! This game has been around for years, but television has just recently moved it into a more mainstream picture.

Is this game this decades answer to backgammon of the 70's? Blackjack of the 80's? The stock market of the 90's? Guys who figure they can make a quick buck, because they read a book, saw a video, or whatever else?

I am thinking that right now is the high of the mountain for any sharp poker player. Sheep will come in droves over the next few months, or even couple of years.

Guys I know are having 24 man tournies with a $100 entry. Now, I know shit about poker. There is no way I would play in one of these. But, I have to think that most of these rubes are guys like me, who have seen it on the tube, and say, "I can do that!" Any real poker player could wipe out a table full of these geeks, don't you think?

Thus, I think the real poker players out there can make a small fortune for a short period of time.

I recently signed up online to play some hold 'em. (I have played at the free sites, but they are a joke, as all players just raise, raise, raise, no matter what they have!)

The thing about the real site is, at the .25/.50 game, there are still plenty of these jerks playing every hand, and staying on anything. Like I said, I know shit about the game. That being said, I can fold all day long in that game, and take home a few pots with a decent hand here and there. (Decent being relitive to that wager size, and being about $7-12.....which $4-5 is often mine!)

Still, I seem to be able to make about $10-$15 an hour. (Hey.....I wasn't looking for a summer job!)

Do any of you guys who have played poker in the casinos on a regular basis notice an influx of new/stupid players?
 

acehistr8

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How long have you been averaging that per hour? A lot of new players average that over maybe 30 or 40 hours, but for real comparison you need to average that over 1,000 hours or more. The swings in this game allow you to hop up pretty quick but sustaining a 1 or 2 BB win rate is impressive. I mean $15/hr at 25/50cent is 30BB per hour. Not you personally but this is just not a sustainable win rate over any sort of long term and I think most poker players would agree with you. At those limits, it is tough to make money. You wont win with hands you expect to (and would at say $3/6 and higher) so you push it, you go on tilt. Its a tough tough game to grind at that level.

Personally I have been playing in casinos since 92 and while lately there have been a lot more people playing, there is always something. When Rounders came out it was equally as good. I wont argue with you though, the WPT and WSOP on national tv has done wonders for those that play regularly. But you are talking about two VERY different games here. By that I mean TOURNAMENT poker and CASH game poker is very very different. In the short term run of a tournament any player can get lucky and hit cards. Did you watch Money over some of those hands. He played some hands he had no business playing. Thus is the nature of tournament play. Side games however, would eat up guys who try to play like that regularly. Two different things.

Anyway, its exciting for me as I love to play.
 

Terryray

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Jeeeze! Heck yes!

Jeeeze! Heck yes!

this town's pokers rooms have lots of low-level professionals who play the small stake games and grind out a little profit by folding most every hand as they wait for "the nuts".

they love to see the fresh tourist meat that arrives in big numbers after those movies or TV shows.


But a huge grind it is. I meet some of them at the bar after they spent 10 hours doing it that day (week after week) and are so freaking bored they are nearly out of their skulls.

I tell 'em to try sportsbetting. Less hours and not nearly as dull---even when we're at the 100 game mark in MLB.
 

acehistr8

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A good friend of mine tried playing $1/2 for a while and he admitted it was a freaking grind. The players wont fold so you cant bluff - thus removing a huge aspect of the game. I told him hey, try 3/6 double your buy in and give it a shot. It was 1000x better. The players were actually there to play, not there to grind out 5 hours so they can qualify for a free buffet. I think the same can be said of most "rock filled" low limit games around LV or AC or Biloxi. The trick is to find that one game, that one limit jump where you go from rocks to players it may be 2/4 from 1/2 it may be a 5/10 game where the next lowest is 2/4. When you can identify through game selection which one suits you best thats where you can make your money.
 

yyz

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I've only played for a few days, Ace.

My point was, these clowns fire in on every frigging hand! I sit back and wait until I have a decent hand, and make my stand. ( I have been beaten on the river a couple times.)

A hand lasts about two minutes, tops. So, of those 30 hands, I see about 4 or five. I try to sit at a table with only 4-6 other players. (You just need to find a table with a high % of players in on the flop.)

The truth is, I am already bored with it. I just wanted to give it a whirl. I don't find it very fun.
 

acehistr8

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yyz I urge you not to give up so easily, poker can be a lot of fun. In those rock filled games you just arent going to get people really "playing" - they are simply going to call every hand no matter what you have and yeah it will become frustrating because you wont have any idea how to play real hands or you wont be winning with hands you know you should be winning with. I urge you to at least take a shot at the next level or two up, I think you will find a huge difference and hopefully have more fun.
 

SixFive

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they're all going to stay and play stupid at those low limits. At 3/6 and 5/10 it gets a little better and you can certainly bluff and check/raise and have success. Some tables have a couple of players that are miserably slow too, and that makes it unbearable for me. I find a different one if that happens.
 

marine

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When playing online, you are playing the "mathematical" game of poker vs. the "psychological" game of poker. There are no "tells" to see online, hence, you are relying on your cards and only your cards. There are a few "tells" you can find in some online players, but not enuff to always make a profit. You find a lot more FPS, (Fancy Play Syndrome) while online and that can end up costing those players the pot because of their so called "sneak attack".
Online example:
4 players in for the flop. flop comes and first player checks, then it is checked around by the remaining 3. The turn card comes and it is lower than the two top cards on the flop. First chair comes out betting... guess what? He just pegged himself for second pair on the board.

Online poker can be fun in order to prep you for live games. PLay online enuff and when you step into a live game you can worry about the players, because what happens with the cards is already instinctive to you when yousee them flip over.

I usually play 3/6 hold em online and can average about 1000/month playing 2-3 hours per day. Some days longer when i get on a roll with some weak players. I have been playing online for about 3 years now.

Now if I step into a live game, look out! As soon as I get the balls to play some higher limits I will. But when I sit down at a 4/8 or 5/10 live game I can (no sh*t) absolutely destroy the game. Why? because ...
1. More idiots at a live table in my opinion and they are easier to identify.
2. The odds and probabilities for the pot and my draw are second nature and I can worry about watching the players.
3. You can (if you have the right personality) turn the game into a seemingly "crapshoot" for some players and get them to throw there money in the pot every single freaking hand with enuff encouragement. In a recent game I played I turned a semi-tight table into everyone posting a live straddle for the next 3 straight hours!

And ace, I make it down to DC every so often these days, I would love to get in on a home game with ya one night I am down there.
 

dr. freeze

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i play 1$/2$ and it is pretty much no fold em holdem but have learned how to make good cash doing so...

its an entire different game than any book that i have come across describes....
 

Penguinfan

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dr. freeze said:
i play 1$/2$ and it is pretty much no fold em holdem but have learned how to make good cash doing so...

its an entire different game than any book that i have come across describes....

Still, you would benefit from this book, even at $1/$2. It is geared more towards 3/6 or even spread limit games. I don't like limits that low simply because the house is the only one who wins those games via the rake.

Penguinfan
 

dr. freeze

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uhh....i don't think so.....

i play 3 tables simul at several websites and have done pretty well...

its a different game that you need to learn to play than what is written in any book online....
 

ELVIS

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you have to play where the money is a little more. 3/6 is not bad at all for amateurs like myself. however, i have had more success playing 4/8. do not ask me how a dollar or two makes that much difference. i probably got lucky and it was a coincidence. live play is a lot of fun for me. i am going to tunica, ms this weekend for some tex hold'em. gl.
 

ELVIS

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yyz, sorry your thread. nick, playing this sunday, sorry for the confusion. see you in the gambling forum next week. i will share honest results.
 

broondog

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YYZ...and yes I'm a RUSH fan too
I see your point....The average Joe (and I'm one of 'em) watches this on the tube and thinks......Hey I can do that. There's an old saying........"A fool and his money are soon parted"
 

Penguinfan

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dr. freeze said:
uhh....i don't think so.....

i play 3 tables simul at several websites and have done pretty well...

its a different game that you need to learn to play than what is written in any book online....

DR, with all due respect, get the book, read it and follow the advice, if it does not improve your game I will gladly refund your money, no questions asked.

Penguinfan
 

macavoy

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Im new to hold em but have played a bit. So if you say you fold most of the time whats youre criteria for staying in b4 the flop??

Pair obviously....high card?? Looking for the best strategy..
 

marine

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Buy the book and read it. Thats the best strategy.

You should be playing somewhere around 12-17% of your hands preflop.

AK, AQ, AJ, A10 and decent pocket pairs.

It all depends on position, table stakes, table mood, and many other factors tho. Best way to find out what works for you is to play at the table and adjust accordingly.

There is not a 100% sure fire catch all strategy.
 
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