I am sorry sir but things are not gong well in Iraq. I would go back to that Air Craft Carrier and re-declare war. That's if you ever did declare war with Iraq. Only 40 killed today. Not all our folks. Thank god. But Over the weekend 6 more GI's were lost 15 injured. As some have said thats nothing compared to the lives lost here at home everday on our streets. Well two wrongs dont make a right. Maybe we need to spend some money here at home if our streets are that bad. Or maybe we need new leader ship to give that some thought. Maybe we should have tried to undestand what Iraq was all about before we jumped in. Even are good friend Sec, Rummy doesn't seem to know what is going on or what todo. Heres a hint Mr President. Fire his no good ass.
Mr President. Iraq Im Sorry?
- Thread starter djv
- Start date
djv you know ive been a big bush supporter but have to agree with you on this.. saddam is out of power.. we are trying to help these people but they seem content with killing us.. let them fend for themselves then and lets get our boys the hell out of there!
theGibber1 said:
As much as I'd love to see our boys home and safe, if we get out before Iraq is stable we are just asking for trouble.
USA has a reputation in the middle East that when it gets tough, we get going. We have to stay and get Iraq stabilized, if we don't, all the soldiers that have died to this point will have died in vain. Iraq would have no law and order and it would be one big terrorist breeding ground, not to mention the fact we would lose all credibility with the few people in the middle east that do support us...
Blitz there is away but this adminastration won't let it happen. Note I did not Say Bush. I know the buck stops with him. But I believe he is getting tons of real bad advise.
it isn't a viable option in the least to just pull out right now....i don't know why you can't realize that.....we have too much at stake....
hey the terrorists are either gonna strike there or here....most likely one or the other....we are in a perfect position to fight....
just need to have some patience because conflicts are not over overnight against terrorists....likely we will be fighting terrorism until the end of time so get it in your head
hey the terrorists are either gonna strike there or here....most likely one or the other....we are in a perfect position to fight....
just need to have some patience because conflicts are not over overnight against terrorists....likely we will be fighting terrorism until the end of time so get it in your head
I thought this was a war on terror. We can fight it there or let them bring it here as before.
The bottom line.
Our objective: To fight the terrorist in their arena. Are
we doing a good job? Thats to be seen as it appears they are congregating and pulling out all stops. Which brings me to---
Their Objective: To get us the hell out of there by causing as much chaos and harm to U.S. soilders and civilians in hopes we don't have the stomach for it. They count on terror, Islam fantic media,U.S. liberal media and the protestors/whiners in the U.S.
Believe me these anti war post's would have them all giving high 5's as goal accomplished.
Fortunatley the Jane Fonda's/Al Sparptons and others are a minority. If we pull out before the job is done it will only add credence to the previous weakening of our credibilty after Bush Sr and Swartz lied and left em hanging and Slick let em drag our men thru streets of Somoli with no reprecussion.Terrorist perceive the american as weak,but I say they they been watching too much liberal media,and are in for the fight of their lives,literally.
I do think however if there is any way to get the National Guard and Reserves out of there we should.
The bottom line.
Our objective: To fight the terrorist in their arena. Are
we doing a good job? Thats to be seen as it appears they are congregating and pulling out all stops. Which brings me to---
Their Objective: To get us the hell out of there by causing as much chaos and harm to U.S. soilders and civilians in hopes we don't have the stomach for it. They count on terror, Islam fantic media,U.S. liberal media and the protestors/whiners in the U.S.
Believe me these anti war post's would have them all giving high 5's as goal accomplished.
Fortunatley the Jane Fonda's/Al Sparptons and others are a minority. If we pull out before the job is done it will only add credence to the previous weakening of our credibilty after Bush Sr and Swartz lied and left em hanging and Slick let em drag our men thru streets of Somoli with no reprecussion.Terrorist perceive the american as weak,but I say they they been watching too much liberal media,and are in for the fight of their lives,literally.
I do think however if there is any way to get the National Guard and Reserves out of there we should.
I agree with the Dr. (somebody please take my temperture!) but I think we have to get rid of the knuckleheads who attacked Iraq in the first place. Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell, and Rice and Bush must go. Cheney and Rumsfeld are responsible for building up Saddam for years and years. Powell and Rice do not have a succesful track record over there. The best thing that can be said about Bush is that he is following bad advice. The worst is much worse.
Re: Mr President. Iraq Im Sorry?
djv
I guarantee you that Rummy did not say what he said recently without approval from Bush. We are entering re-election year and Bush wants us to understand its a long hard road and we better re-elect him so he can finish it.
There is no way we get out of Iraq at this time or anytime in the near future. Think 3-4 years even if we elect a new president.
Why do you think Baghdad fell so easily ? Where were the
20,000 republican guard and the other special forces ?
They went into hiding and are the ones planning the raids on our troops now. I also read where a Syrian was involved in the latest raid on the Red Cross building. So others are getting into the act.
I remember reading that Bin Laden called Saddam and told him back off and fight a guerilla war with America when the war stops. This will drive them nuts and you may be able to return to power.
If we pull out Saddam is back in there in less than 6 months.
The north oil lines are being sabatoged. I would fly sorties over them pipelines and if anyone goes anywhere near one I would blow them up first. Where is the oil money going they are pumping in South Iraq ? Why dont we use that money to rebuild the country that we blew up instead of our tax dollars ?
It really is a mess. But I see no way to get us out of there without total chaos for many years. It would also put us in line for further terrorist attacks in the near future.
I hate that our troops are having to deal with this as much as anyone.
This aint the first time that a President has lied to us. If we knew half of what really goes on in any administration it would give us the public, cause for grave concern. And its not just Bush and them its the whole political system we have going on up there.
KOD
......................................................djv said:
djv
I guarantee you that Rummy did not say what he said recently without approval from Bush. We are entering re-election year and Bush wants us to understand its a long hard road and we better re-elect him so he can finish it.
There is no way we get out of Iraq at this time or anytime in the near future. Think 3-4 years even if we elect a new president.
Why do you think Baghdad fell so easily ? Where were the
20,000 republican guard and the other special forces ?
They went into hiding and are the ones planning the raids on our troops now. I also read where a Syrian was involved in the latest raid on the Red Cross building. So others are getting into the act.
I remember reading that Bin Laden called Saddam and told him back off and fight a guerilla war with America when the war stops. This will drive them nuts and you may be able to return to power.
If we pull out Saddam is back in there in less than 6 months.
The north oil lines are being sabatoged. I would fly sorties over them pipelines and if anyone goes anywhere near one I would blow them up first. Where is the oil money going they are pumping in South Iraq ? Why dont we use that money to rebuild the country that we blew up instead of our tax dollars ?
It really is a mess. But I see no way to get us out of there without total chaos for many years. It would also put us in line for further terrorist attacks in the near future.
I hate that our troops are having to deal with this as much as anyone.
This aint the first time that a President has lied to us. If we knew half of what really goes on in any administration it would give us the public, cause for grave concern. And its not just Bush and them its the whole political system we have going on up there.
KOD
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To show you how the planning is all mixed up. We have troops in Korea with Flak jackets or said another way bullet proof. But in Iraq where we been at war 7 months now. There just arriving for most our men. They hope to have enough there by the end of November. Just 7 months late.
And yes there is away out with honor for most of our forces. But with to many people worried about the oil it wont happen.
Im not saying skip and run all at once. But do remember England was in Ireland for how many years 20. Israel and there battle much like what is going on in Iraq has been since 1948.
Are we ready for 10 to 20 years. Does anyone really believe this goes away with Bush if given 4 more years. Better have a better reason to put him back in office then that. Or he wont make it. I may only thing I feal the mood changing in our country. But jobs health care and our states all in the hole. Is getting much more attention. And both took his Dad out in four years.
Guys if these folks really wanted to come here and blow something up. Do you really believe this war in Iraq is stopping them. Hell we never caught the main leader. Every week someone shows how easy it still is to get in America. And with our Borders and Ports wide open. I only hope they have not put it togeather yet.
By they way some of the men that did the killing deeds today had Syria passports. So the hate comes from many directions. And as you saw today they just did not try to kill Americans. They kill anyone it dont matter. Heck on 9/11 they killed folks from 23 differant countires. They may not have understood that but I dont think it would have changed there minds.
And yes there is away out with honor for most of our forces. But with to many people worried about the oil it wont happen.
Im not saying skip and run all at once. But do remember England was in Ireland for how many years 20. Israel and there battle much like what is going on in Iraq has been since 1948.
Are we ready for 10 to 20 years. Does anyone really believe this goes away with Bush if given 4 more years. Better have a better reason to put him back in office then that. Or he wont make it. I may only thing I feal the mood changing in our country. But jobs health care and our states all in the hole. Is getting much more attention. And both took his Dad out in four years.
Guys if these folks really wanted to come here and blow something up. Do you really believe this war in Iraq is stopping them. Hell we never caught the main leader. Every week someone shows how easy it still is to get in America. And with our Borders and Ports wide open. I only hope they have not put it togeather yet.
By they way some of the men that did the killing deeds today had Syria passports. So the hate comes from many directions. And as you saw today they just did not try to kill Americans. They kill anyone it dont matter. Heck on 9/11 they killed folks from 23 differant countires. They may not have understood that but I dont think it would have changed there minds.
the middle east will be a haven of unrest and war forever. they have been fighting there for close to 600 yrs. look at your history books. the jews and arabs hate one another and that will never change. no western born citizen will ever truly understand this ideology. anyway, this situstion is bad and i am afraid the US involvement will not have a lasting positive ending.
"Earlier this month the U.S. Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing brought out a new $20 bill. Curiously, the debut of this redesigned piece of currency was accompanied by a marketing campaign?at a reported cost of $32 million. That's a decent budget and includes events, print ads, some Web goodies, and even TV spots."
.........................................................
Our goverment at work.
32 million to tell us there are new 20 dollar bills.
no wonder we dont all have health insurance.
KOD
.........................................................
Our goverment at work.
32 million to tell us there are new 20 dollar bills.
no wonder we dont all have health insurance.
KOD
"The two-page memo, dated Oct. 16, was addressed to Rumsfeld's top aides: the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers; the vice chairman, Gen. Pete Pace; Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz; and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith. Here are some key passages:
"It is pretty clear that the coalition can win in Afghanistan and Iraq in one way or another, but it will be a long, hard slog."
"My impression is that we have not yet made truly bold moves [in the war on terrorism]."
"We are having mixed results with [tracking down] Al-Qaida. ? With respect to the Ansar Al-Islam, we are just getting started."
"It is not possible to change DoD fast enough to successfully fight the global war on terror; an alternative might be to try to fashion a new institution either within DoD or elsewhere."
"Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?"
"Does the US need to fashion a broad, integrated plan to stop the next generation of terrorists? The US is putting relatively little effort into a long-range plan, but we are putting a great deal of effort into trying to stop terrorists. The cost-benefit ratio is against us! Our cost is billions against the terrorists' costs of millions."
"How do we stop those who are financing the radical madrassa schools? Is our current situation such that 'the harder we work, the behinder we get'? ... Should we create a private foundation to entice radical madrassas to a more moderate course?"
Another question might be added to this list: Have you ever read a more pathetic federal document in your life? What is being stated here can be summed up as follows: We'll probably win the battle for Afghanistan and Iraq (or, more precisely, it's "pretty clear" we "can win" it, "in one way or another" after "a long, hard slog"), but we're losing the struggle for hearts and minds in the broader war against terrorism. Not only that, we don't know how to measure winning or losing, we don't have a plan for winning it, we don't know how to fashion a plan, and the bureaucratic agencies put in charge of waging this war and drawing up these plans may be inherently incapable of doing so."
............................................................................
This is nuts.
KOD
"It is pretty clear that the coalition can win in Afghanistan and Iraq in one way or another, but it will be a long, hard slog."
"My impression is that we have not yet made truly bold moves [in the war on terrorism]."
"We are having mixed results with [tracking down] Al-Qaida. ? With respect to the Ansar Al-Islam, we are just getting started."
"It is not possible to change DoD fast enough to successfully fight the global war on terror; an alternative might be to try to fashion a new institution either within DoD or elsewhere."
"Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror. Are we capturing, killing or deterring and dissuading more terrorists every day than the madrassas and the radical clerics are recruiting, training and deploying against us?"
"Does the US need to fashion a broad, integrated plan to stop the next generation of terrorists? The US is putting relatively little effort into a long-range plan, but we are putting a great deal of effort into trying to stop terrorists. The cost-benefit ratio is against us! Our cost is billions against the terrorists' costs of millions."
"How do we stop those who are financing the radical madrassa schools? Is our current situation such that 'the harder we work, the behinder we get'? ... Should we create a private foundation to entice radical madrassas to a more moderate course?"
Another question might be added to this list: Have you ever read a more pathetic federal document in your life? What is being stated here can be summed up as follows: We'll probably win the battle for Afghanistan and Iraq (or, more precisely, it's "pretty clear" we "can win" it, "in one way or another" after "a long, hard slog"), but we're losing the struggle for hearts and minds in the broader war against terrorism. Not only that, we don't know how to measure winning or losing, we don't have a plan for winning it, we don't know how to fashion a plan, and the bureaucratic agencies put in charge of waging this war and drawing up these plans may be inherently incapable of doing so."
............................................................................
This is nuts.
KOD
Islam Fanatics have been causing choas for years with everyone looking the other way mainly because of vast muslim population in their country. 9-11 was the coupe de grace where someone had to make a stand. We started by taking Afgan which was their main headquarters and training area,however I believe we will need to concentrate more efforts there again. This huge blow to thier operations. Then with entering Iraq you had few side with U.S. BUT due to IMHO the Terrorist miscalculation of killing other muslims along with americans the peaceful muslims are beginning to see the light and not just stand on sidelines and watch.
You see the Saudi's now joining fight against terrorist as well as Pakistan,Iran is stepping in line on nuclear issue,we have cut off huge amounts of monetary resources of terrorist-we have weeded out a portion of those abetting terrorist in our own military-Afgan is entirely different country as far as human rights,especially women and children but I think we are falling short of following through with roads ect promised.
We have occupied Iraq and fighting terrorist on their turf and not in U.S. and they are coming to us rather than us go into their countries. Iraq in most places has better living conditions(utilities water ect) than prior to war,admittedly employment is lacking and this issue has to be answered or there will be continuous mal content.
Granted the loss of just 1 life is too many but tell me anywhere in the history of man kind has so much been accomplished with so few casualties.
There was mass hyseria in this country after 9-11 on what was to follow,where would they strike next. Itnstead of sitting back and waiting we took the offensive to them. Now I will tell you what will be deciding factor when people go to the poles to vote. You can discount all the mud slinging from all sides ,the bottom line will be do you feel safer now than after 9-11.
---and while all the above still may disturb a few citizens here in U.S. I can flat quarantee you it is not remotely in comparison to how it has disturbed the terrorist.
You see the Saudi's now joining fight against terrorist as well as Pakistan,Iran is stepping in line on nuclear issue,we have cut off huge amounts of monetary resources of terrorist-we have weeded out a portion of those abetting terrorist in our own military-Afgan is entirely different country as far as human rights,especially women and children but I think we are falling short of following through with roads ect promised.
We have occupied Iraq and fighting terrorist on their turf and not in U.S. and they are coming to us rather than us go into their countries. Iraq in most places has better living conditions(utilities water ect) than prior to war,admittedly employment is lacking and this issue has to be answered or there will be continuous mal content.
Granted the loss of just 1 life is too many but tell me anywhere in the history of man kind has so much been accomplished with so few casualties.
There was mass hyseria in this country after 9-11 on what was to follow,where would they strike next. Itnstead of sitting back and waiting we took the offensive to them. Now I will tell you what will be deciding factor when people go to the poles to vote. You can discount all the mud slinging from all sides ,the bottom line will be do you feel safer now than after 9-11.
---and while all the above still may disturb a few citizens here in U.S. I can flat quarantee you it is not remotely in comparison to how it has disturbed the terrorist.
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Why? Might I ask Steve.
Do you not think any of the above has diminished their capabilities??
Or do you maybe feel we have aroused them more.
On the latter I don't think they ever needed to be provoked.
I think the Red Cross thing goes further to prove to the peaceful Muslims what these fanatics are really about. Maybe I am wrong.
Do you not think any of the above has diminished their capabilities??
Or do you maybe feel we have aroused them more.
On the latter I don't think they ever needed to be provoked.
I think the Red Cross thing goes further to prove to the peaceful Muslims what these fanatics are really about. Maybe I am wrong.
DTB, I do not feel safer because I ride the subways everyday to work. I see thousands of people everyday riding the tunnels to work. These people carry more baggage with them to get to work than I take on a 5 day vacation to Vegas. Grown men and woman wearing back packs and carrying dufflebags. We do not walk thru any kind of detection to get on trains. A bomb of any size would cripple this country. It does not have to be of the magnitude of 9/11. Just one or two small bombs going off in a subway car and millins of Americans would be afraid to go to work. They could blow up a bridge or two. Actions like these would not be expensive or even complicated to carry out. Meanwhile, we are engulfed fighting a war that we never should have started. Bush and his over the hill gang of Rumsfeld, Chaney, et all wanted Saddam before 9/11. They should have concentrated on protecting us from terrorists after 9/11 instead of carrying out their plans to get Saddam. He was no more of a threat to us than any number of other madmen that we propped up for years and years. I want to throw-up everytime I hear Rumsfeld explain how evil a man Saddam is. I agree he is evil but I want to know why Rumsfeld supported and propped up that evil man for years and years. I will feel safer when Rumsfeld and Cheney and the other profiters of that evil are no longer in charge of this war.
I dont know how we made anything safer here at home other then. We arrest more folks for the way they look then for anything they done. That just is not what America is all about.
Did we stop the fight from being here becase we went to Iraq. Time will tell. We must remember they have paitents. They do big things here and they dont mind waiting to plan them. What was it 12 years between the two attacks on the world trade center. They dont seem to want to just do a few car bombings here. They want what they do to really hurt. And only time will tell if they are not planning there next big hit. There are those right now that believe two of the fires in California were set by terroist. If found to be true. We then have not stopped anything from happening here. There are those that are just hoalding there breath something big does not come in through one of our wide open ports. Our homeland secuirty dept admitts over a 1000 containers a day come here and do not get check. Lack of man power and money is reason given. Look no father then Iraq for the funds needed to make us more safe. And even feal that way. We just seem to be in ahurry in Iraq but not here. Like those vest for our soldiers now arriving 7 months late. Very Poor planning. And what a embarrassment in Iraq. We send our Deputy Sec Of Def's there to show how much better things are. He dam neers gets blowen out of his hotel he's sataying at by a
rocket attack. In fact he did. So As I said forget the dam oil and there is away with honor to start bring most our folks home. In the first place the tanks that are there are little use when you have hit and run attacks. Some say Terroist. Others call it gorilla war. This can go on years and we will not be any safer because of it.
Did we stop the fight from being here becase we went to Iraq. Time will tell. We must remember they have paitents. They do big things here and they dont mind waiting to plan them. What was it 12 years between the two attacks on the world trade center. They dont seem to want to just do a few car bombings here. They want what they do to really hurt. And only time will tell if they are not planning there next big hit. There are those right now that believe two of the fires in California were set by terroist. If found to be true. We then have not stopped anything from happening here. There are those that are just hoalding there breath something big does not come in through one of our wide open ports. Our homeland secuirty dept admitts over a 1000 containers a day come here and do not get check. Lack of man power and money is reason given. Look no father then Iraq for the funds needed to make us more safe. And even feal that way. We just seem to be in ahurry in Iraq but not here. Like those vest for our soldiers now arriving 7 months late. Very Poor planning. And what a embarrassment in Iraq. We send our Deputy Sec Of Def's there to show how much better things are. He dam neers gets blowen out of his hotel he's sataying at by a
rocket attack. In fact he did. So As I said forget the dam oil and there is away with honor to start bring most our folks home. In the first place the tanks that are there are little use when you have hit and run attacks. Some say Terroist. Others call it gorilla war. This can go on years and we will not be any safer because of it.
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i don't know why people are surprised by these attacks in iraq. if you look at previous wars, there were also terrorists type fighting when the allies occupied japan & even after the civil war, there were attacks by unhappy southerner's against the north administration. the difference now is the enormous media coverage.
i agree with those who say it would be a major blunder on our part by pulling out of iraq. it was reported by many media sources, & also what dtb has stated many times on this site that both saddam & bin laden studied our actions in somalia.they were banking on the american people getting fed up with all of the deaths of our military & demand that we pull out of iraq & afghanistan. i give bush alot of credit by his actions toward terrorism & how he made iraq now the center of the war on terrorism. he has jeopardized his re-election by this war in iraq & has stayed the course & not worry about what the polls indicated.
ex-cia director,under the clinton administration, mosley has stated many times that iraq has aided alqueda in terrorism training, financial aide, & medical aide & that saddam had to be toppled. so,imo this was the right thing to do.
stevie, who would you want see as a successor to bush?
i agree with those who say it would be a major blunder on our part by pulling out of iraq. it was reported by many media sources, & also what dtb has stated many times on this site that both saddam & bin laden studied our actions in somalia.they were banking on the american people getting fed up with all of the deaths of our military & demand that we pull out of iraq & afghanistan. i give bush alot of credit by his actions toward terrorism & how he made iraq now the center of the war on terrorism. he has jeopardized his re-election by this war in iraq & has stayed the course & not worry about what the polls indicated.
ex-cia director,under the clinton administration, mosley has stated many times that iraq has aided alqueda in terrorism training, financial aide, & medical aide & that saddam had to be toppled. so,imo this was the right thing to do.
stevie, who would you want see as a successor to bush?
AR, so far no one running for president has excited me. Mr. Bush created one hell of a mess over there and we are now left to figure it out. No one seems to have any idea what to do about it. One thing I know for sure is that Bush surrounded himself with the very people who have been screwing up that part of the world for as long as I can remember and they must be removed before they make things worse than they all ready made it. As to who should replace him I don't have any idea at this point.
