Any one familiar with this?

loungelizard

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Online Exchange Upsets Betting World




Nov 2, 1:07 PM (ET)

By BRUCE STANLEY

LONDON (AP) - The traditional British betting shop fancies itself a social institution, a convivial place where people can wager a few pounds on a horse race or soccer game. But that's not how Andrew Black sees it. The Internet entrepreneur considers bookmakers financial parasites who build a fat profit into all the odds they offer.

Inspired by the way shares trade hands on the New York Stock Exchange, Black designed a way to match both sides of a bet via the Internet, bypassing the bookmaker. By acting as a broker, his company Betfair has rocked the hidebound world of sports betting.

Black's notion was to take a commission on the winner's earnings rather than to make money on odds. He developed the technology in his spare time while working as a software contractor for British intelligence.

Three years after its launch in a London attic, Betfair has 290 employees and an 80 percent share of the online betting exchange market, with 30,000 regular customers whose average wager is 35 pounds ($59), or three times the typical wager at a High Street betting shop.


Betfair's success has spawned 21 competitors, and its closest online rival, Sporting Options PLC, has a market share of just 12 percent.

"The strength of our model is the technology that drives it," said Betfair spokesman Mark Davies.

It's precisely that technology that bothers established bookmakers, many of whom also take bets online. They accuse betting exchanges of unfair competition.

"If I were to go into a pub and take bets from people, I'd be breaking the law, but if I go on the Internet and do the same thing via a betting exchange, it's legal. We think this is a massive discrepancy," said David Stevens, a spokesman for Coral Eurobet Ltd., Britain's third-largest bookmaker.

In online exchanges, betting is a transaction - not unlike the open outcry mechanism for trading shares on Wall Street that inspired the 40-year-old Black. He started the business with his best friend's brother, investment banker Edward Wray, 35. The pair raised $1.7 million from friends and family.

Betfair lets people offer their own odds for a sporting event. In most cases, the exchange is able to match each individual with someone taking a contrary view who accepts the odds being offered.

It charges winning customers a commission ranging from 2 percent to 5 percent of their earnings; a bookmaker's margin might be substantially bigger. Losers pay no commission.

Payouts are handled by computer servers, and Betfair says its Web site is well-protected against hackers. Using an electronic audit trail, it can track any bet placed on its site and investigate irregular betting patterns if it suspects a customer of fraud.

Within nine months of it launch, Betfair broke even. As a privately owned firm, it doesn't release profit information, and Davies said only that it's now "in good shape."

Three months ago, the firm hired an outsider - Stephen Hill, former head of the Financial Times Group - as its chief executive. Betfair plans soon to expand overseas, with Wray leading efforts to build a business in Australia.

Paul Cooper, a former Betfair employee who now works for Sporting Options, says he thinks "the whole industry of exchange betting is continuing to spiral."

Some analysts estimate the global market for legal betting on sports generates at least $3.4 billion in annual revenues. Although betting exchanges account for no more than 4 percent of this market, they claim to appeal to people who bet with their heads and not their hearts.

"The vast majority of punters bet on the basis of the colors worn by a jockey or the name of a horse or something that catches their eye and makes them think, 'Today my luck has come in.'" Davies said.

In contrast, devotees of betting exchanges look at the true chances of winning, and place much bigger bets, he said.

Russell Clifton, a regular Betfair customer, bets as much as 1,000 pounds ($1,690) on a single horse race. As a professional stock trader, he said he's comfortable with Betfair's technology and appreciates being able to offer his own odds directly to other individuals.

"That's the brilliance and the simplicity of the system," he said. "It's a revolution."

While old-fashioned bookmakers protest the online betting exchanges, Britain's Department of Culture, Media and Sport acknowledges that there are "loopholes" in the rules governing them. But the agency doesn't expect Parliament to pass a new gambling bill before the summer of 2005.

One concern is that betting exchanges, unlike traditional bookmakers, let customers wager on horses to lose races and not just win them. Bookmakers worry that this could tempt jockeys, trainers, stable hands or even horse owners into throwing a race if the odds are right.

"There is a threat to the integrity of racing, but we're working with the exchanges to combat any threat," said Owen Byrne of the Jockey Club, which sets the rules for British horse racing. In June, Betfair and Sporting Options agreed to provide the Jockey Club with customers' identities if requested.

Another issue is taxes. Although betting exchanges pay the same taxes as bookmakers, Stevens of Coral Eurobet says some exchange customers are functioning as bookmakers and should also be taxed.

That would clearly discourage betting with the exchanges - and make it hard for them to survive.

Betfair's Davies denies that betting exchanges have an unfair advantage. Traditional betting shops shouldn't fear losing customers to the exchanges because, he said with a touch of irony, "there are so many people who don't care about value."
 

GM

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A friend of mine who lives in England uses Betfair. He's very happy with it and claims to have made money off of it. Most of the people who play there (he claims) are Brits. And he says quite often there is value in taking the underdogs late in games.

Second-hand info here, so bear with me if I get a detail or two wrong. He claims this type of betting is most-popular in three-way markets like soccer (win/tie/loss wagering). That makes sense. But there's value in sports like football too. Typically he says he sees situations like this:

NFL game - Team X is leading by 13 with 5 minutes left. The average line posted by the players may be around 15 or 15? (keep in mind the players make the line on the final margin of victory - the official/Vegas line on the game has no bearing on the outcome). His theory is that those who play here, being largely British and more familiar with rugby than American football, still think of the game in rugby terms. In rugby there is no such thing as the prevent defence; teams that are winning tend to keep piling it on in rugby. But at the moment there are enough people who don't get that aspect of the NFL game yet that the lines are skewed wrong sometimes, and it can be profitable. I don't know if that's accurate, but that's his theory. It sounds plausible.

You can also use a place like this to set up in-game middles, or hedge a bet you had at a regular sportsbook.

The part I like about it is I think money can be made at this betting very early in the game and then getting out. From what I saw, opinion varies enough on the markets that you can make money just betting on the flow of the game, without having to be correct on the final outcome. Just take a position on the game early on...your team scores a TD, you sell, take profit and get out, and it's not even halftime yet.

The downside to this kind of betting is you may want action and not get it. If you're offering to buy up to 100 shares at +13, and some guy comes along and offers to buy up to 5000 shares at +12?, you've got to go to +12 to get action (because he posted his line first, so he gets preference over you if you were to also put up a +12?). If he doesn't fill his quota, it never gets to you (unless he takes down his offer).

There's also the odd case my friend has found where someone will put up a bid and forget about it. IE. Someone puts up an offer, no one takes it, the guy doesn't worry about it and leaves it up, because he "knows" nobody is going to bother with it and it won't cost him any money. Then the game swings the other way. The guy's either not sitting at his computer, or he's not quick enough, and it all gets bought up.

Definitely something I want to investigate a bit more.
 
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dawgball

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Do they accept US clients? I know a lot of firms over there do not.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Brother Dawg Not sure but will find out for you. I looked on Stan site that list which english books take US customers but he does not have it listed. I have seen this book mentioned a ton on UK golf forums on golf. It was going to be my winter project to look into. I will send you what I discover.
Sorry to hear about Jason plight. Sometime life does not seem fair.
 

Stanley

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This is the info from Betfair:

"Unfortunately, US federal law does not currently allow betting from inside the United States, so for now we cannot allow you to bet on the exchange. If the situation changes, we will contact you immediately. Until then, your account will remain in existence but will be shown as 'suspended' if you log in.
We have a very small number of users who live in the US but spend a lot of their time traveling they can, of course, only use their accounts from outside the US."

Not sure how the last bit works. It may be a loophole, but I don't know how they monitor it.
 

Clive

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Think it's fair to say exchanges have radically changed betting in the UK...

About 90% of my betting is now done through exchanges, and I'm pretty typical...this is money UK bookmakers have lost, that's why they're complaining so much.

To give you an idea, current Superbowl market has ?388k matched...and that's in the UK!


There are more exchanges popping up all the time...one in Ireland called tradesports, which recently got some press in the US for betting on the Kobe Bryant case...they are very small scale compared to Betfair, not sure if they take US accounts.

DTB, you've got property all over the worls, shoudn't be too difficult for you to register!
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I think I might be able to get bet down Clive,but can you and Stan go through another tutoring period on exchanges--I've just got to where I am not constantly questioning you on regular golf wagers after 5 years :lol:
 

Clive

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All you need to do is visit during the back nine in any golf event and watch the action unfold..prices change after every shot, although you have to be careful as often people know more than you!

Only a few people over here have managed to get Tourcast (not permitted in UK!), and they have a big advantage...also, there is a feeling that UK golf coverage is delayed slightly...maybe 30 seconds due to satellite etc, so it has been reumoured that some people were on phone to friends in US getting a quicker commentary and betting accordingly.
 

GM

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After further review...

After further review...

I am friggin' lost!!!
I'm in Canada, so I had no trouble opening an account (haven't send any money yet, but it appears I am allowed to play at least). However, I can't find a way to get the markets to display in American odds. It appears this option doesn't even exist. How stupid.

This is just way too much thinking for me, trying to decipher what I am being offered on these markets. I've been betting sports for over 10 years, so it's not like I am foreign to the concept.

But to see a screen full of 2.3's and 1.61's and 1.43's and have to convert it all to American on the fly...and then all the British terminology on the site to boot....pffff. I could not make a quick decision here without making a colossal mistake at some point.

There's no way they get much North American business until they reprogram the site and give you the option to get rid of the British jargon and decimal odds.
 

TORONTO-VIGILANTE

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Re: After further review...

Re: After further review...

GM said:
I am friggin' lost!!!
I'm in Canada, so I had no trouble opening an account (haven't send any money yet, but it appears I am allowed to play at least). However, I can't find a way to get the markets to display in American odds. It appears this option doesn't even exist. How stupid.

This is just way too much thinking for me, trying to decipher what I am being offered on these markets. I've been betting sports for over 10 years, so it's not like I am foreign to the concept.

But to see a screen full of 2.3's and 1.61's and 1.43's and have to convert it all to American on the fly...and then all the British terminology on the site to boot....pffff. I could not make a quick decision here without making a colossal mistake at some point.

There's no way they get much North American business until they reprogram the site and give you the option to get rid of the British jargon and decimal odds.

:iagree: :confused: :shrug:
 

Regular Joe

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Lounge,

I was with Tradesports for the 2002 baseball season. It seemed to have its advantages IF you were watching the game. Prices change quickly during the game, so having access to the event is a MUST. The best scenario in baseball was a close, high scoring game. There was ALWAYS a lot of buying and selling. All it took was a lead-off man getting on base.
If you do try this form of betting, TREAD LIGHTLY for the first couple of events until you become thoroughly familiar with the concept.

It seemed there was money to be made once you're familiar with the system.



"Joe"
 

Penguinfan

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I have heard rumors, rumors mind you, but from reliable sources that thoroughbred wager in the US is gonna go to this person-to-person type of format. This makes a ton of sense since the takeouts at tracks are getting out of control while the purses for the most part remain stagnent. Of course this will only work for W/P/S wagering, not sure how they would work the exotics, if they could. I like the idea as far as thoroughbred wagering goes, I mean why not lock in at 5-1 on a horse you like rather than letting the track take 20+% and risking the price going down at post time, sure it could go up, but more often than not my 5-1 shot gets bet down to 5-2 right before post rather than hitting 10-1, I'd take my chances locking in a price.

In this particular kind of wagering, in-game wagering would be tough:D

Penguinfan
 
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