Paul O'neill Shame On You

FUZZY NUTZ

I LUV KOD
Forum Member
Feb 10, 2002
283
1
0
NYC
c6230_full.jpg


MY ANN COULTER DOLL IS ALWAYS RIGHT (NO PUN INTENDED) AND SHE SAYS:

"LIBERALS HATE AMERICA, THEY HATE FLAG-WAVERS, THEY HATE ABORTION OPPONENTS, THEY HATE ALL RELIGIONS EXCEPT ISLAM, POST 9/11. EVEN ISLAMIC TERRORISTS DON'T HATE AMERICA LIKE LIBERALS DO. THEY DON'T HAVE THE ENERGY. IF THEY HAD THAT MUCH ENERGY, THEY'D HAVE INDOOR PLUMBING BY NOW."
 

dr. freeze

BIG12 KING
Forum Member
Aug 25, 2001
7,170
8
0
Mansion
no i don't like blue collar jobs....worked my way through college doing one and if we can get them offseas the more the better....

we will handle the business side of things

not sure what that comment about who fights the wars means....my friends and family have fought wars throughout time and i am damn proud of them

sorry we caught your boy Hussein...unfortunately for you liberals, that lessens the pain of the ass he was to our country and our international credibility
 

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
these are the same arguments here that have been going on for months. i have a couple of questions for my fellow madjacker's:

1.is there any proof that bush was planning to attack iraq before 9/11 ? and if they did, was it such a bad idea?

2.did libyia dennounce terrorism & open up their country to inspections because of the iraq invasion ? would they have done it if there was no invasion?

3.are other middle eastern countries intimidated by the invasion of iraq?

4.should we believe the ex-cia chief, during the clinton administration(forgot his name) who stated that there were training camps in northern iraq, under the supervision of one of saddam's commanders?

5.is there a 6 degrees of separation between the terrorists &
rogue nations?

6.can o'neill sustantiate any of his accusations ?

7.is he a disgruntled employee who is pissed that he was fired ?

8.do the leading candidates running for the democratic nomination have a clue about handling terrorism?

9.if you answered yes to the above question, who would that be?

here are my answers:

1.i haven't seen or heard any proof, no

2.yes, probably not

3.i think so

4.i don't see why we shouldn't believe him. as a matter of fact he testified in court, under oath that there was evidence that saddam was aware about the training camps.

5. definately

6.i am waiting for that

7. probably was a blow to his ego & could be pissed

8. i doubt it

the 2004 presidential election will determine if the american people have more faith in bush protecting our country's security
or that a new man should be our president.
 

StevieD

Registered User
Forum Member
Jun 18, 2002
9,509
44
48
72
Boston
You ask some good questions. But we won't know the answers to your questions or how things would have been if Bush and Co. was strong enough to get the UN to enforce the sanctions. It is clear now that Saddam was not a major threat to us. If he was I don't think Cheney would have been doing business with him with Haliburten.
Now. I have a question, why is Dean a coward? Did he also duck his responsibilities during the Vietnam war like Boy George who took advantage of his wealth and connections not to go. In fact the case can be made that he was AWOL for most of his "service"time.
But I guess he is a war hero because he wears a bomber jacket.:shrug:
Doctor you are too much. I am very glad that you have worked hard and will hopefully meet with some success. Others have also worked hard but not had that success. Of course some take advantage of the system just like some take advantage of high priced lawyers and cheat on their taxes and even escape real military service. But that doesn't mean the system stinks. I am sorry that you hate America and what it stands for.
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
I told you Mr O'neill your Republican friends would turn on you. They eat there young if they dont buy in to all that is said. They should have a three year witch hunt with Bush. His darn lies. Well His are even worse then Clintons. And that dam Powell albout saying O'Neill was right. Get his ass to. None of those guys tell the truth. How the hell they get in the republican party.
 

dr. freeze

BIG12 KING
Forum Member
Aug 25, 2001
7,170
8
0
Mansion
lol StevieDi am not the one rooting for the terrorists....i am not the one creating anti-success laws...i am not the one trying to keep the common man down

no those are your friends.....I am all for America...for the pursuit of the American Dream

as far as people turning against this O'neil guy....hmmm....i guess you would have been surprised when Benedict Arnold has his former friends turn on him too after what he did....

:rolleyes:
 

DOGS THAT BARK

Registered User
Forum Member
Jul 13, 1999
19,485
161
63
Bowling Green Ky
"damn lies worse than Clintons"
Typical left mentallity--speculation is worse than being convicted under oath--your some real Einsteins

Bush vs Dean on coward issue
They bash Bush because he served in national guard,
think Slick was cool as protesting draft dodger and "now"promote this clown(dean) as their ultimate warrior- :confused:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2087543/

Now One more thing on O'Neil issue--I don't know who right or wrong, I can only use logic to assume reasons above -- and to that I have to add some additional logic--when it normally takes a couple of years to write book and have published,some this guy gets canned in December of 02--writes a book--gets it publiished-and to print in record setting time of 1 year. Why, I ask, the rush unless there is VERY important reason or agenda.;)
 

Turfgrass

Registered User
Forum Member
Sep 26, 2002
1,153
5
0
Raleigh
Report: Dean Accepted Special-Interest Money

Report: Dean Accepted Special-Interest Money

Howard Dean accepted special-interest money at least five times while Governor. Just the man we need to clean up Washington.


WASHINGTON -- While governor of Vermont, Howard Dean accepted personal pay from special interests at least five times for speeches and also received more than $60,000 in checks and pledges for his charity fund from insurers who benefited from a state tax break, according to documents and interviews.
Dean's fees and charitable donations were legal and did not have to be disclosed under Vermont law but were detailed in correspondence and tax records reviewed by The Associated Press.

The lion's share of Dean's $13,633 in personal speaking fees as governor came from a drug company that was embroiled in one of the nation's most high profile sexual harassment cases, which ultimately ended with a nearly $10 million federal penalty.

The checks and pledges totaling at least $62,500 to Dean's Vermont Computer Project, an initiative the governor created to donate equipment to Vermont schools, came from captive insurance and reinsurance companies, nontraditional insurers which provide health care coverage to companies in tax-friendly ways.

Dean's campaign said Friday any suggestion the payments or donations influenced his actions as governor was "laughable." "Anyone who knows Howard Dean knows he's a straight-shooter who calls them as he sees them and nothing, aside from his interest in the best public policy, ever influenced his decisions as governor," spokesman Jay Carson said.

But many of Dean's former gubernatorial colleagues, including his successor in Vermont, said they don't accept special interest speaking fees to avoid appearances or because of legal prohibitions.

"We choose not to accept anything of value," said Abby Ottenhoff, a spokeswoman for Illinois Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

The charitable checks and pledges were delivered to Dean and his aides in the mid-1990s by a lobbyist for the insurers. In one letter on his official stationery, Dean wrote lobbyist John L. Primmer to tell him about the status of a state tax break for the industry and to simultaneously thank him for a personal gift.

"Both of these bills have the potential to help further opportunities in this area and bring high quality economically beneficial jobs to Vermont," Dean wrote on April 27, 1993 to Primmer, whose clients over the years included a coalition for reinsurers and the Vermont Captive Insurance Association.

"Thanks for the gift and your support. Please be in touch with further questions or comments," the then-governor added.

Dean's campaign said the governor does not recall what gift was referenced in the letter but said it could have been a token gift or one of several donations or checks Primmer collected to Dean's charity fund.

Primmer did not return calls to his office seeking comment Thursday or Friday.

But in a 1993 letter to Dean, Primmer wrote that two insurers were sending a gift to the governor, described only as a "package," after Dean met with them to discuss the bill that would provide new tax breaks. Dean signed that bill into law later that year.

Donation

In 1994, Primmer donated $250 to Dean's re-election campaign. And in a series of 1995 letters, Primmer passed along a $7,500 check to Dean's school fund from insurer Commercial Reinsurance Company, and pledges for an additional $55,000 from that company and another insurer named MEDMARC.

"We greatly appreciate the flexibility your administration and it predecessors have promoted in the regulation of insurance companies," a MEDMARC executive wrote in a "Dear Gov. Dean" letter around the time of the donations.

When asked whether the discussion of official business and private donations mixed in the correspondence might create a perception of a conflict of interest, Dean spokesman Carson replied: "As Governor he started a charity that provided hundreds of computers to the poorest kids in the state and he's not going to make any apologies for that."

Charles Lewis, head of the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity that studies public officials' conduct, said Friday the revelations risk tarnishing Dean's self-portrait as a political outsider.

"This is the same kind of thing that goes on in Washington, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day," Lewis said. "It's not something you would expect the reformer, outsider candidate would have in his background."

Dean's speaking fees were included in his 1998 and 1999 tax forms that the presidential hopeful voluntarily released, and he provided the names of those who paid him at the request of the AP.

The largest sum of speaking fees - $9,000 - was paid to Dean for two speeches he made in spring 1998 and spring 1999 to Astra USA, now known as AstraZeneca, the pharmaceutical giant that makes the popular ulcer drug Prilosec.

Astra was based in neighboring Massachusetts and at the time of Dean's 1998 speech had just settled a sexual harassment case with the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission after admitting to a hostile work environment and agreeing to pay nearly $10 million to more than 70 victims.

Dean was paid $4,000 for the 1998 speech, and received $5,000 more in 1999 to speak again to Astra, according to the information Dean provided to the AP.

Dean canceled a third speech just before the 1998 election when reporters inquired about the propriety of speaking at a company involved in the harassment case.

The new information shows Dean also received speaking fees in 1998 of $1,000 from the University of Texas Science Center, $1,000 from the American Academy of Pediatrics and $2,633 from the University of Arizona Foundation.

In all, Dean earned $13,633 in speaking fees while governor and another $5,000 after stepping down. The totals are far smaller than the $1 million-plus that rival Wesley Clark earned in speaking and consulting fees after retiring from the military.

Several governors told AP they decline such money or gifts for appearances sake. "The governor does not accept honoraria or gifts," said Josh Morby, spokesman for Wisconsin's Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle.

Ohio Gov. Bob Taft, a Republican, also does not accept honoraria, his spokesman said. Public officials in Ohio have been prohibited by state law from accepting speaking fees since 1994, when the Ohio Senate president and other lawmakers were indicted in a controversy over speaking fees from a women's clothing retailer.

Washington Gov. Gary Locke, a Democrat, doesn't accept speaking fees, and Tennessee law prohibits its governor from accepting honoraria, spokesmen said.

And Dean's successor in Vermont, Republican Gov. James Douglas, hasn't accepted any honoraria in his first year and believes it "unlikely that he would accept honoraria to speak on a subject clearly related to his duties as governor," spokesman Jason Gibbs said.

The House and Senate have banned lawmakers from accepting honoraria in the early 1990s after controversies.


2003 Associated Press.
 

ocelot

Registered User
Forum Member
May 21, 2003
1,937
0
0
Mount Shasta
I can't believe the right wing absolute stupidity that I read here.

They won't admit their boy Rush was a major league hyprocrite doper, won't admit Bush is a liar, won't admit Cheney works for big polluters, won't admit that their Republican Party hates workers, won't admit that their boys in the White House committed a felony by revealing a CIA operative (talk about Un-American!),etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc,......ad infinitum ad nauseum.

And of course...Its all Clintons fault. Hell, the Great Crash of '29 is probably Clinton's fault. Why waste breath arguing with a complete pack of blind ignoramii?
 

Blitz

Hopeful
Forum Member
Jan 6, 2002
7,540
46
48
58
North of Titletown AKA Boston
djv said:
I told you Mr O'neill your Republican friends would turn on you. They eat there young if they dont buy in to all that is said. They should have a three year witch hunt with Bush. His darn lies. Well His are even worse then Clintons. And that dam Powell albout saying O'Neill was right. Get his ass to. None of those guys tell the truth. How the hell they get in the republican party.

We on the "right" often get accused of dragging Clinton into every arguement, Let the record show that djv did it this time...:nono:
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
Ocelot you missed one. The Bush adminastration wants the legal system changed to. They don't believe a jury of 12 Americans can decide the amount of money to be award for all these doctor screw ups. But when needed to get Bush elected they went running to the Legal system at the highest level. Then it was good enough.
Oh and don't forget there working on ways to try and take over time pay away from hard working stiffs.
And there just worried sick that the 4 or maybe 5 million gays are going to take over America. They better stick to the real big problem like the 8 to 10 million jobs we need. Before we all need to pay for more folks out of jobs.
But this O'neill guy what a turn coat. I would throw his ass out of the party now. But we should not be surpprised this chit goes on in DC no matter what party. I know there are a few that would never admitt the republican party is just as bad as all others but there blind. My grandfather and father were two of them. Im glad I saw the light and became indepentent. I mean even after Nixons big screw up my grandfather kept saying it's not his fault.
My father did change once old enough to retire and on SS. He said to me your right on one thing. The republicans dont care to much about us older folks. However he did like Reagan in his first term. Then he thought Reagan slept thru his second term. As many others did. And my god he voted for Bush Sr. Then later said it was a big mistake. Well many in the Party thought that to. So dad was not all wrong. If my granfather was still alive he would say thet should shoot O'neill. My grandfather was one of those republicans that could have ate his young if they did follow the plan.
 

Chanman

:-?PipeSmokin'
Forum Member
I thought this article was pretty good. Sorry but i don't feel like name calling, blaming Clinton, etc.

The American Spectator
By Jed Babbin
Published 1/12/2004

Excerpt:

Truth -- always the whipping boy of politicians and other frauds -- had a very tough week. Both here and in England, the truth is being subjected to something akin to domestic violence. It can't be domestic violence because these abusers usually don't live with truth. I'm not sure who gave truth the hardest time, but the nominations for the week are the BBC and former treasury secretary Paul O'Neill.

Times are tough at the Beeb, which has fallen to such depths it would have to look up to see the New York Times. The Beeb's Jayson Blair -- Andrew Gilligan -- charged in a broadcast last year that the intelligence reports of Saddam's WMD had been "sexed up" by Tony Blair to justify Brit participation in the Iraq campaign. The BBC's relentlessly negative treatment of the war got it banned -- by popular consent among the crew -- from Her Majesty's flagship, HMS Ark Royal in favor of the Fox affiliate, Sky News. Gilligan's bosses stood by him while a huge scandal -- which is still ongoing -- threatened Tony Blair's future.

Trying desperately to fight off the BBC's charges Blair & Co. investigated to find Gilligan's source. Eventually, someone in the MoD leaked the name of Dr. David Kelly as the source. Kelly -- who was a WMD expert, but not involved in preparing the allegedly "sexed up" report -- was raked over the coals by a Parliamentary committee, which he told that he couldn't possibly be the source of the "sexed up" allegation, because that wasn't what he told Gilligan. Unused to the pressure or the spotlight, Kelly committed suicide and then Blair was blamed for his death. Blair has said unequivocally that he didn't leak Kelly's name, and that he didn't lie about the WMD. Now senior judge Lord Hutton is about to toss out his final report on the mess, and Blair's fate hangs in the balance. But Gilligan?

The late Dr. Kelly's little buddy is still at the Beeb, despite conclusive evidence that he made up the "sexed up" story. At least the New York Times got rid of Jayson Blair. But the Beeb is more concerned with political correctness than in the truth. Just look at the case of Robert Kilroy-Silk, one of their talking heads.

Kilroy has -- or had until last week -- a daily TV talk show on BBC1. But he also writes a weekly column in the Sunday Express, a relatively conservative newspaper. He had written a piece back in April, at the tail end of the Iraq campaign, deriding the Arab condemnation of American and British action. But on 4 January, another version of the same piece appeared.

In the 4 January version of Kilroy's article, he wrote, "We are told by some of the more hysterical critics of the war on terror that 'it is destroying the Arab world.' So? Should we be worried about that? Shouldn't the replacement of the despotic, barbarous and corrupt Arab states and their replacement by democratic governments be a war aim? After all, the Arab countries are not exactly shining examples of civilization, are they?...We're told that the Arabs loathe us. Really? For liberating the Iraqis? For subsidizing the lifestyles of people in Egypt and Jordan, to name but two?But why, in any case, should we be concerned that they feel angry and loathe us? The Arab world has not exactly earned our respect, has it? Iran is a vile, terrorist-supporting regime, part of the axis of evil. So is the Saddam Hussein-supporting Syria. So is Libya. Indeed, most of them chant support for Saddam."

That's waaaaay too much truth for the Beeb to handle. Kilroy has been suspended from broadcasting while the Beeb investigates him, and the Islamic organizations of Britain are shouting "off with his head" (some more literally than others). Iqbal Sacranie, head of the Muslim council of Britain, said action should be taken against Kilroy because of the "bigoted and ill-informed ideas" in the piece, which was "ignorant, extremely derogatory and indisputably racist." That none of Sacranie's charges are correct isn't stopping others from demanding sanctions against Kilroy. Criminal charges? Civil sanctions? For what? Stating an opinion that just happens to be perfectly reasonable? And Kilroy, man that he is, is blaming his secretary for the whole thing. It's her fault, says he, because she resubmitted an old article as new He's also blaming his editors at the Express for -- I guess the right term would be "sexing up" -- his old article to make it new. He shouldn't worry. If the Beeb fires him, there's always a place for him as a Dem campaign consultant over here.

It doesn't really matter what happens to Gilligan or to Kilroy. What matters is truth, free speech and a responsible press. Free speech is always threatened wherever it occurs. That is an essential part of human despotism which seems, I hasten to add, to occur more often than not in the Arab countries. My bet is that Gilligan will stay and Kilroy will go, and truth will have suffered another body blow.


IT'S MORE THAN A LITTLE POSSIBLE that Blair's prime ministership will end over the Kelly leak scandal. Blair is weak now, because of the British public's diminishing support for the war against terror, the Kelly leak and many domestic issues. He's also weak because the Tories finally seem to have found a leader in Michael Howard who can unite a majority government and turn Britain around. Howard is both a strong intellect and a superb pol, qualities that have been noticeably lacking in the Tory leadership since Lady Thatcher retired. Back here in the States, many conservatives are wondering if we need someone more faithful to conservative purpose than the president we have. It's hard not to wonder.

Mr. Bush's weaknesses are growing, and cannot be denied. His insistence on fishing for votes in the Rio Grande is horribly wrong, and will damage national security. Illegal immigration should not be solved by making it legal. We should be doing a lot more to stop it, and deport quickly those who come in without permission under the current system. The president seems content to spend like Lyndon Johnson and deny the deficit is a problem. He should be spending a lot less domestically, not following the Dems dogma by buying votes. Mr. Bush is making enough problems for himself, and he's getting a lot of help. Paul O'Neill apparently hasn't gotten over the fact that his antics made him dispensable. And he still is, although -- unfortunately -- he is newsworthy in an election year.

Mr. O'Neill -- whose background in foreign and defense policy was apparently acquired on his 2002 tour of Africa with rock star Bono -- now asks us to be shocked, just shocked, by the fact that Mr. Bush was thinking about Saddam before 9-11. Paul O'Neill's declarations to the contrary, there is nothing to indicate that Mr. Bush planned to go to war in Iraq before 9-11. What O'Neill's case of the vapors is about is precisely what a new president should do. Mr. Bush looked at the threats to national security upon taking office, cataloguing them and the possible options to deal with them. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have been doing his job.

Though O'Neill's accusations are both serious and false, they provide ammunition for the Dems who will turn it into one of those impossible to disprove charges that will ride the media wave until election day. Truth will suffer many such blows this year, and the only real question is how vulnerable Mr. Bush will be to it, and to the irresponsible way the Dems will handle it.

The irresponsibility of the Dem candidates is breathtaking. This week Wesley Clark promised that there would be no 9-11's on his watch, implying that Mr. Bush could have prevented the attacks. I would like to ask him just how he can guarantee our safety. It's another of those questions that we have to demand specific answers to, but no one is bothering to even ask.
 

dr. freeze

BIG12 KING
Forum Member
Aug 25, 2001
7,170
8
0
Mansion
i like how Bush was criticized 6 months ago for not having a plan....now he is criticized for having a plan....unreal

DJV to say that republicans do not like old people is just plain uninformed and ignorant....republicans...well conservatives -- those two terms do not go hand in hand as of late -- are able to realize that old people would be 2-3-4 times as wealthy if allowed to save up for their retirement instead of putting in lifelong earnings for a 20% return....liberals want you to rely on the government so that they can constantly feed you in exchange for your vote...if you buy into that policy, then i guess no one can argue with you

granted repub's are giving $$ away like its free candy, giving illegals status, and the lines between parties are more and more blurred....and i disagree with much of what Bush has done domestically outside of his taxcuts and legal reform...but Bush has been solid on foreign policy and if you do not think he has been put yourself in the place of a terrorist and ask who you would vote for

as for suing doctors....why can't we sue the legal system for driving up the costs of doing business and for driving up costs of malpractice insurance, time lost from jobs, etc. etc....

i would like to see some good ol' civil action: America vs. Trial Lawyers class action suit
 

djv

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 4, 2000
13,817
17
0
I try not to crow before it's to soon. That way I dont have to eat as much. I still remember all the things Iraq was complying with or promised to do. Not enough to cause a war but some how we started one.
Doc one thing forsure I found interesting for the adminastration to say. They had same policy Clinton had since 1998 for Iraq. Seems strange because we were all led to believe Clinton didn't have one either.
 

AR182

Registered User
Forum Member
Nov 9, 2000
18,654
87
0
Scottsdale,AZ
djv,

a few years ago, during clinton's administration, congress passed a bill calling for the end of saddam's regime (forgot the name of the bill). the fact that clinton was clinton was in agreement with this bill is what bush was referring to.

doesn't it bother anybody that saddam & his boys plotted to assassinate the president of our country?

it doesn't matter if you are a democrat or a republican, it should piss every american citizen that this thug tried to kill our president. for that alone, imo should justify going after saddam.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
2 questions answered....

2 questions answered....

1)why was the bush administration not strong enough to get the u.n . to enforce sanctions?....

lmao......the question should have been,"why would anyone think for a second that 3 countries that despise and resent america and it`s military and economic power,would be willing to undercut a rogue nation that does a good deal of business with them and enriches their respective stagnant economies?.....

that`s a real question....

2)why go and get hussein?......why not get n korea?....after all,there were no weapons of mass destruction....

i`ll try and lay a a scenario that makes some sense....

"like israel or not,they are a democracy and our biggest ally in the middle eastern region.....strangely enough,the u.s. stands by it`s allies(how very un-french of us).....

israel does have nuclear weapons....they have not used them,even though gravely provoked....

saddam hussein is on record as saying,"my biggest mistake was not having nuclear weapons when going into kuwait".....if you have a brain in your head,you understand that if the israeli`s hadn`t taken out saddam`s french built iraqi nuclear reactor in the 80`s,there would have been nuclear weapons thudding into israel,not poorly guided scuds in the gulf war........and as i said,about 3 hiroshima-sized nuclear bombs would pretty much annihilate a small country like israel....this is the guy that gassed his own people and was more than willing to invade his neighbors.....if he`d had the nuclear trump card when going into kuwait,he`d probably have succeeded.....nobody would have dared play russian roulette with this madman...

make no mistake....a big part of our decision to take saddam out,is rooted in the continued existence of israel,and the ramifications of the disruption of the middle eastern oil supply.......which,is seen as being jeopardized by the one dictator in the middle east crazy and ballsy enough to try and annihilate israel.....and wouldn`t mind throwing the world into economic chaos......

the world is becoming rife with black market nuclear processing material and some say,actual nuclear weapons(the soviet union cannot account for all of their cold war weapons)....n. korea has already been caught secretly shipping missiles to terrorist nation yemen on unmarked vessels....they will have to be dealt with....thankfully,china holds the economic "sword of damocles" over the korean`s heads....making it a much less tenuous scenario for the u.s...and,china certainly doesn`t want n.korea sh-tting all over their backyard.......and they do not threaten the world`s energy supply....

if saddam`s reactor hadn`t been taken out prior to the gulf war,israel would most definitely have been hit with nuclear weapons.....thus,bringing retaliatory strikes with nuclear weapons from israel....thus opening the middle east up to a full scale arab vs israeli conflict,fecking up half the world`s oil supplies,and possibly creating a global catastrophe.......

it`s not hard to understand why we are doing what we are doing...the guy has proven he`s willing to do what your average despot will not do.......and what country would be more deeply affected by just such a catastrophe?...i don`t have to answer that one....life as we know would cease to exist....

that`s why we didn`t wait for capitulation from the france`s of the world...it wasn`t coming anyway....

if you can`t assuredly get the knife away from jack the ripper....then you have to get rid of jack....

This message was edited by sphincter on 03-19-03 at 11:17 PM.]
 
Last edited:
Bet on MyBookie
Top