please tell me the st.joes box score is incorrect.......

[gman2]

for the sake of st.joes fans, i sure hope it is.

they made 24 field goals in the game and 20 of them were 3s?

now i didnt see the game, so maybe those stats are incorrect and this becomes a moot point.

but this just reconfirms that they have absolutely zero inside game and stand no chance of making a legitimate run in the ncaa tourney.

honestly, the only mid-major with a chance is gonzaga because they rebound the shit out of the ball and they have an interior presence.

zags, with a healthy turiaf, would have beaten joes at the garden earlier this season.

they certainly would beat st.joes on a neutral court right now.

yes- they have great guards. perhaps the best in the country.

but that means shit when you have ZERO inside presence and rely on jump shooting to win games.

they could realistically finish the season undefeated and not make the sweet sixteen.

like i said, i dont think theyre good enough to beat gonzaga again, let alone a physical power conference team

 

[Blackman]

Forget a physical team from a big conference - I firmly believe that with their style of play we could potentially see the first 16 seed to upend a #1 in the tournament. All it will take is for those guards to have an off night from deep, they have no other mode of offense, or so it seems.

On the right night, I think that any team that is able to slow them down and bound the glass could knock them off.

 

[mjalam]

gman..once again we disagree....its not like they hit 20 this game but only five in another...they've been hitting those threes with ease over the past few games..i don't think thats gonna change and you'll lose your money if you bet against them...i remember syracuse outshooting just about everybody hardly ever going inside ...but all they did was win the tourney..:shrug:

 

[Okie]

Gman

Gman

One thing to remember is that they played against the Temple Zone.

 

[gman2]

okie:

thats what i was thinking (temples 2/3 zone im sure had a lot to do with it). but that it itself is an indictment of sju. obviously its great that they knocked down 20 of em, but to settle for jumpers and not dribble penetrate a zone to score is ridiculous.

mjlalam:

nothing wrong with disagreeing. theyre a GOOD team. and youre right, its not like this is the 1st time theyve hit a lot of 3s. but imo, there is zero and i mean ZERO chance they can win it march if they continue to be a jump shooting team. i dont think the syracuse comparison is right. they had warrick and anthony inside. st, joes have absolutely nobody.

im still in shock at that boxscore.

 

[mjalam]

maybe ur right gman..but i can't wait to find out!!! march is gonna be exciting

 

[Hoops]

Agree with mjalam...they have been doing this all season. Even if they aren't hitting from the perimeter, Nelson and West are equally adept at penetrating and getting to the foul line. This isn't college basketball of 20 years ago when dominant big men decided championships...it's guard and perimeter play for the most part. Tim Duncan was a fantasic college player, about as good as I can remember of recent note as a PF/C. His Wake teams never reached a Final Four. Big guys don't carry teams in college anymore...when you have superlative play from your 1/2/3 spots it usually accounts for more in this day and age on the NCAA level.

Looking back at the champs the past 10 years..Arkansas, UCLA, Duke, Arizona, UConn, Syracuse, Maryland, etc...sure, some of these teams had good inside presence, but for the most part, they relied on the guards and swingmen. St Joes isn't on that caliber (and I don't think anyone said or would say they are at this point) but West and Nelson are so good, they don't need anything more than an average inside game to get by.

 

[Bombs]

I think you are missing the boat on St. Joes for two reasons:

1) They give their opponents horrible matchup problems. They occasionally play 4 or 5 guards. They pressure the ball so well with Nelson/West/Barley that they neutralize their inside deficiencies. You are overrating their lack of rebounding numbers. They get plenty of floor boards and create tons of steals.

2) They take a lot of threes because they get amazing penetration and wide open looks. They have 7 or 8 guys that can rain them in and just bury teams. When it comes to a close game they have a great backcourt, and backcourts win in college basketball.

Regardless of whether Turiaf played in that game, they ripped them. Hard. They pressured the Zags slower guards and made them turn it over and take bad shots. This is what they do to teams. They are much better than the Zags, period.

 

[Bombs]

Forget a physical team from a big conference - I firmly believe that with their style of play we could potentially see the first 16 seed to upend a #1 in the tournament. All it will take is for those guards to have an off night from deep, they have no other mode of offense, or so it seems.

On the right night, I think that any team that is able to slow them down and bound the glass could knock them off.

This is a completely outrageous statement.

 

[vinnie]

gman

I need your help in the NFL forum if you can.

 

[Master Capper]

your insane if you think Saint Joes is not a top ten team, this team has played the 28th toughest schedule in the country. As far as a opponet dominating them inside first you have to get the ball up the court against them.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I dont care what the computer says - the only good team they have played is Gonzaga the first game of the year. This might be worse than the BCS or polls in general. The A-10, or 14, or 12, or however many teams it is now, sucks, to be kind. That No. 28 has already dropped about 10 spots this weekd with more to come. No doubt they have a great backcourt that will go the whole year untested. They may or may not be a Top 10 team, but my guess is in a real conference they would not be. A very good team though nonetheless. They in my mind are a team whose destiny will be based upon the draw/matchups they get. But looking blindly, they are a Sweet 16 team at best. No inside presence, rely too much on the 3, and untested.

 

[gman2]

lets put it this way.

on a neutral court, how many teams in the top 25 would st.josephs be favored against?

im looking at the top 25 and i see MAYBE 5 or 6 teams tops.

i understand the pollsters have no choice but to keep one of only 2 undefeated teams in the top 5 or so.

feel free to call me crazy on this one, but i dont think theres a team in the top 10 that would be favored by less than 5 against sju on a neutral court.

 

[Bombs]

Vegas has high respect for Joes, they would be a very short dog or fav vs. many in the Top 10.

 

[gman2]

also, before this thread goes any further:

i have NOTHING against st.joes. i DO NOT think joes is a bad team. i think nelson is a stud

that being said, theyre just not an elite team in my opinion.

i strongly believe gonzaga is a MUCH MUCH better overall team than st.joes

in fact, i think gonzaga is the best mid major there has been in years.

i think gonzaga has a legit shot to go to the elite 8/final 4.

i think joes stumbles at sweet 16.

gonzaga has everything joes has, plus size and rebounding. and thats what will show come march imo

nothing against joes. just not sold.

 

[Sun Tzu]

gman quit stealing my shit. bu then again, it does make you look pretty smart, doesnt it.



PS How about those Cyclones?

 

[ZMAN]

sju is a flat-out awesome team. gonzaga? would get blown out. g, ive seen this team in person more than a few times. their guards are quicker than you or their opponents could ever imagine. their defense is unreal. sun, lose in 1st round? your nuts. this team is final four bound, and one of best teams in country.

 

[dr. freeze]

no team needs an inside presence anymore

the 3 point shot has become a free throw....

St. Joes has as a legitimate shot as anyone in the country

an "inside presence" is not much of a factor these days

speed and quickness are

 

[Master Capper]

On a neutraul court Saint Joes would probably be favored over 20 of the top 25 teams, i came up with thistotal through the use of 7 different power ranking formulas.

If their schedule has been a joke, what do you say about Pitt, Stanford, UCONN, Cinc and Okie State all have strength of schedule ratings below 100 whereas Joes currently is at 21.

I will take a solid backcourt that can shot threes anytime over a team that has a inside game but no backcourt.

 

[gman2]

just to clarify:

when i said "inside presence", im not talking about a 6'10, 6'11 guy to dump the ball into in the post.

just saying that its absolutely vital for a basketball team on any level to take the ball to the basket and have the ability to score off of rebounds and able to get points when the jump shot isnt falling.

they are incredibly deficient on the glass.
i dont know how anyone can argue pro-sju in that department.

theyre the second worst rebounding team in their OWN CONFERENCE. #271 in the country.

guard play does not make up for lack of rebounding. guard play can cover up a lot of deficiencies, but it cant cover that up.

and that is why i feel gonzaga stands a far greater chance of going deeper into the tourney than st.joes. if anyone wants to make an even-money wager that st.joes goes deeper into the tourney than gonzaga, talk to me come tourney time in march and we'll set-up a neutral party to hold the funds.

thats just how i see it.

theres a reason a mediocre auburn team beat sju in the 1st round of the dance last year. way more physical and joes relied too much on the perimeter.

lots of time to continue this discussion. not trying to incite a riot among joes fans. just my opinion.