lots of politics lately, how about some RELIGION today, my friends at Jacks

loungelizard

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Six Five, didn't mean to imply that you were, very sensitive topic for Catholics, it is easy to forget the immeasurable good this church has done and focus solely on its problems. For the cradle Catholics who have left, I understand that to, I did for about 5 years but came back and now very active, but I will say this, I truly believe there are many roads to get to the final destination and hope everyone finds theirs. I think the most annoying thing about religion are those faiths who preach that the only way to heaven is through their churches door, I once told a friend of mine (non Catholic) that if Catholics were the only ones in heaven, I wouldn't want to go and still feel that way.

Peace,
LL
 

djv

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Loungelizard Per the hard core religion beliveres. Most out of the south. They found Christ. There safe. All the rest of us no matter what are religions are. Were in the dog house. They preach this hate ever day. They call it a calling and love. I say they have nothing on the 275 million of us left. And there group of 8/9 million were just snookered better then others. They are most far right. All support Bush because he has his calling and found Christ. I dont believe in free tickets or the BS they preach. Folks should attend there own church and visit with god there own way. We dont need anyone telling us there way is better. It's not. In fact it's dead wrong.
 

kosar

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djv said:
Loungelizard Per the hard core religion beliveres. Most out of the south. They found Christ. There safe. All the rest of us no matter what are religions are. Were in the dog house. They preach this hate ever day. They call it a calling and love. I say they have nothing on the 275 million of us left. And there group of 8/9 million were just snookered better then others. They are most far right. All support Bush because he has his calling and found Christ. I dont believe in free tickets or the BS they preach. Folks should attend there own church and visit with god there own way. We dont need anyone telling us there way is better. It's not. In fact it's dead wrong.

Exactly.

Loungelizard,

You mentioned what a tough decision they had about whether to do anything about the priests that rape young boys? Because they might not have a replacement for them? Wow.
 

loungelizard

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Kosar,

not do anything? that was not my point, but what do you do. I know of nobody, business, government, person who would know how to deal with this maybe you do, maybe everthing you've done wrong, you have gone and shouted it from the mountain tops, if you did, good for you, but it goes against human nature. If you put this on a smaller scale, If your 14 year old son comes home and says "dad, i have been raping, 7 year old Billy down the street, how do you handle it, call the cops, call the kids parents, take out an ad in the paper? There are a bunch of Catholic haters out there that is a fact really never understood why guessing it goes back to the early church and some of the dogma it taught, but this goes on in all types of churches, i live in a town of about 12000, a minister at a fundamental Baptist church here was caught having relations with a 10 year old boy at church camp, he was quietly ushered out of town, nothing in the newspaper or national news about that.
 

kosar

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loungelizard said:

The situation yes very bad, but what the Catholic church faces is no priests, none, seminaries are empty

my point with Bishop Law is you get rid of the bad ones who do you replace them with



These are obviously the comments that i'm referring to. Your last post has absolutlely nothing to do with reconciling these statements. Your examples have absolutlely nothing to do with how the Catholic church, from top to bottom, ignored and implicitly condoned what was going on.

Your concerns about getting rid of the boy rapists because it might cause a priest shortage is nothing short of mind-blowing.
 

AR182

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all i have to say about the catholic religion is that the people that run the vatican (pope too ill to be involved) ought to be ashamed of themselves with the way they handled the priest's situation. they tried to ignore it & hope that it would go away or tried to cover up this despicable behavior. and then when the shit started hitting the fan, the attorney who represents the vatican stated that it is not their responsibility to aide those who are/were investigating these accusations.

i know that the catholic priests are/were not the only religious figures who did these gross acts. i know of a story that appeared in one of the ny newspapers about a rabbi in nyc who was accused of accousting (sp?) his nephew, who he was helping prepare the boy for his bar mitzvah. unfortunately i don't know what became of this story.

families look to these religious leaders to help guide their children in becoming the best person they could be, and instead of guiding them, these "religious leaders" comitted unforgivable acts.
 

loungelizard

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Kosar,

I am convinced after reading your posts through the years that there is nothing anyone could say, it is, and always has been your way or no way. So you hear this, there is no defense of the actions of the priest, none period. It is sick, and twisted, but it happened, and on behalf of Catholics everywhere i am sorry. I have yet to hear how you would of handled it oh wise one please let me know, because i'm sure you know.

Peace,
ll
 

kosar

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My way? What is 'my way', in this discussion? I don't get it. And once again, your response has nothing to do with my post. You don't have to apologize for the priests actions. Their actions, while disgusting, aren't what we're talking about here.

To answer your question about 'what would I do'? Well, I would like to think that I would make sure the priests were ushered out of the Catholic church, and if possible, prosecuted. I would like to think that I wouldn't cover it up and shuffle the priests around to different churches and onto other unsuspecting children. I sure as hell would hope that a 'priest shortage' wouldn't pop into my head at the expense of mentally screwing up more children for the rest of their lives. I would like to think that I would do the decent, humane and Christian thing. Are you kidding me? What would I do?
 

dawgball

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Time for my wise-ass to chime in...

6-5--One of these days when I am in BG, we are going to meet for a beer. Hopefully, after our meeting you can say that you have met a Catholic who (thinks) he knows what he believes. to answer your question about sprinkling babies--You can be referring to the holy oils or the baptismal water. I think you are probably referring to the oil since water is used in most Christian faiths for Baptism. The person receiving the Sacrament of Baptism (usually babies in Catholic church) is annointed with holy oil on the forehead lips, throat, and I think chest as a protection from spiritual harm. The next step is when the baptismal water is used. The baby is blessed in the Trinity with the baptismal water, then annointed with holy oil again as a sign of receiving the Holy Spirit.

The only reason I know this in such detail right now is that I was recently the Godfather of my niece. I knew most of it, but not all of these details. I guess that is cheating a little.;)

On to the child molestations and the Catholic Church: As a Catholic I was/am appalled by the route taken by those who are the leaders of my faith. The horrible mistakes made by those priests are just that, horrible mistakes. BUT the way that the Church chose to handle this situation was very disheartening to me, but I also look at those decisions as mistakes made by humans. It pains me to see the suffering that the victims have had to go through and the pain that they have to live with. There is no payback for that kind of act. I can only offer my apologies for the entire Catholic population and hope that we/they have seen their wrong doings and every effort will be made to correct those situations and keep tham from happening in the future.

posted by djv: Could be if they had let them get married. They may have left the kids and them selfs alone. But Then you never know if they have a sickness they could have ended up just a lot of wife beaters.

I couldn't disagree more. Child mollestation is a sickness. I don't think marriage or anything else would have changed these occurrences. I think the bigger fault in this story, though, lies with the leaders of the Catholic Church.

My opinion on married priests: I do not want to see married priests for a couple of reasons. When receiving a catholic Sacrament, there are three parts: a vow (obvious), a mark (the wedding band), and the secret (this I have never understood). When my wife and I received the Sacrament of Matrimony, we took a vow with one another to God to dedicate ourselves to each other for the rest of our lives (shortened version here). Matrimony as well as Holy Orders (priesthood or sisterhood) are in a group called "state of life" Sacraments. I think it would be too much burden on one man to take both Sacraments and fulfill both of them to the best of his ability. I think his dedication to one would be to the demise of the other. I would rather see female priests be allowed in the Catholic Church. I am in a minute minority in this thinking, though.

JT made a very good point. I, as a Catholic, hoped and continue to hope that our "management" would be above making the hideous decisions that we did. It was a real eye-opener to me that the Church is run by humans who make human mistakes the same as anywhere else.

Contributions to the Church: I think it is a very rewarding experience to tithe to the Church. You don't need the Church to tithe, though. Your time and money are much needed in every community no matter your skill, age, or financial status. If you have never volunteered and seen the faces of those less fortunate than you, you should give yourself the opportunity. My favorite charity is Habitat for Humanity because there is responsibility that is laid upon those receiving. It's fun, too, to participate in building a house from scratch for someone else.

Can anyone tell I like this conversation?:D
 

Penguinfan

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kosar said:
My way? What is 'my way', in this discussion? I don't get it. And once again, your response has nothing to do with my post. You don't have to apologize for the priests actions. Their actions, while disgusting, aren't what we're talking about here.

To answer your question about 'what would I do'? Well, I would like to think that I would make sure the priests were ushered out of the Catholic church, and if possible, prosecuted. I would like to think that I wouldn't cover it up and shuffle the priests around to different churches and onto other unsuspecting children. I sure as hell would hope that a 'priest shortage' wouldn't pop into my head at the expense of mentally screwing up more children for the rest of their lives. I would like to think that I would do the decent, humane and Christian thing. Are you kidding me? What would I do?

Against all odds Kosar, I have found a post of yours I agree 100% with, of course that will mean very little to you, but in any event, excellent post.

Penguinfan
 

dr. freeze

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djv said:
We dont need anyone telling us there way is better. It's not. In fact it's dead wrong.

Jesus said "I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me"

hmmm...i guess Jesus is dead wrong according to DJV
 

djv

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Now your over the edge. My god and my faith is as good as yours anyday so take a sweet kiss of my ass.
 

djv

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Your wanted to say what you did. And Is way past what Jesus may or maynot have said. And how we may desire it's meaning today. Remember Jesus also said bring everyone on to me. Not if they had found him, or were thinking about it. Just bring them. Believe and be saved. Did not mean you have to believe only in one faith. And was the only way to be saved. Anyone peddling that BS is part of the problem.
 

bjfinste

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I have to say I'm surprised that this thread was able to make it through a full page without getting vicious, although not the least bit surprised that it was Freeze who decided to come along and give it the nasty push needed to potentially get very out of hand.
 

ceciol

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Isn't there anyone else here who thinks religion/God is a bunch of hooey?
 

dr. freeze

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no thats exactly out of the Scriptures and there is no way around it...thats what the Christian faith believes and that is why they are hated...they believe there is one way and one way only...

if you choose to not believe it then so be it...but don't criticize others for believing it unless you are arrogant enough to denounce the Scriptures as being false, then go ahead and assume that position....
 

dr. freeze

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bjfinste said:
I have to say I'm surprised that this thread was able to make it through a full page without getting vicious, although not the least bit surprised that it was Freeze who decided to come along and give it the nasty push needed to potentially get very out of hand.

uhh no...looking through the thread it looks like there are several vicious comments directed towards Christians.....

Dr. Freeze only stated what they believe and why they believe it....and if you want to denounce what the Scriptures say then go ahead....but it is extremely arrogant to do so and unless you have studied theology, history, science thoroughly you are making a judgement which you so hastily Christians as being judgemental
 

dawgball

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Freeze--I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, but I do think that my conviction differs. One of the reasons that my faith wavered for several years is that I always thought the part of Christianity where accepting Christ as your savior was the only way to pass on to eternal life was kind of elitist. Through my readings and askings I now see it in a different way. When our judgment day comes, we will have a choice: repent or be damned. IMO, it won't be as easy as saying that one repents when the day comes, but someone who is of other faiths beyond Christianity will have a chance to be saved if they choose so with a clear conscience.

I can easily see why some/most people would feel differently about this, but through my efforts this is what I have come to believe.

At first, I took some of the comments as vicious towards Christians, but I don't think that was the intent. This is a good conversation, and I think Freeze has a lot to add.
 
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