Frankly I think all 4 teams got much better draws than they deserved or expected. I will post later but these teams may well make some noise after all.
Big 12 Teams
- Thread starter Sun Tzu
- Start date
As I stated, these draws set up much better than I had expected. Each team will win Round 1, but I suspect my only play will be Tx Tech.
I think Tech can play with St Joe's. Would certainly take the points in that 2nd round match-up.
I thought Okie State would have big problems, but they got a fortunate bracket. They get to Sweet 16 but lose there to Pitt.
Kansas is fortunate getting to in essence play at home, but Providence is going to be a big problem for them. I dont think Kansas sees the 2nd weekend.
While Atlanta is the toughest region, I also think it sets up well for Texas. Assuming neither team slips in the first game (these arent gimmees ) I feel the winner of the UNC-Texas game will go to the Final Four. At the pace Roy plays, and only going 5 deep in Denver, Texas will have a big edge although UNC certainly has more talent. I just cant see Scott May getting up and down the court, and UNC will get in serious foul trouble in the post.
I think Tech can play with St Joe's. Would certainly take the points in that 2nd round match-up.
I thought Okie State would have big problems, but they got a fortunate bracket. They get to Sweet 16 but lose there to Pitt.
Kansas is fortunate getting to in essence play at home, but Providence is going to be a big problem for them. I dont think Kansas sees the 2nd weekend.
While Atlanta is the toughest region, I also think it sets up well for Texas. Assuming neither team slips in the first game (these arent gimmees ) I feel the winner of the UNC-Texas game will go to the Final Four. At the pace Roy plays, and only going 5 deep in Denver, Texas will have a big edge although UNC certainly has more talent. I just cant see Scott May getting up and down the court, and UNC will get in serious foul trouble in the post.
Hey Sun,
I agree that the potential OSU-Pitt game could be a dandy. Pitt matches up very well with OSU and would have the edge inside with Taft and Co. Krauser vs. Lucas would be nice individual matchup to see. I think that one could end up being more like a rugby game than a basketball game, if the refs allow it to get that physical. I see it being back and forth, lots of lead changes, but I still think the Cowboys would find a way to win, though. Lots could happen between then and now, though. After all, it wouldn't be called March Madness without some upsets and drama.
I am surprised you don't think S. Carolina or Memphis could give the Cowboys problems? Personally, I am a little worried about that second round game. Hell, for that matter E. Washington is no pushover, not that I see OSU losing, but I could easily see them covering that big number against us. I seem to remember EWU playing OU very tough earlier this year.
As for thoughts on Texas, maybe I am crazy, but IMO Princeton looks to be a bigger possible problem for your 'Horns than UNC. Texas will have to be hitting from the outside in order to win. If they don't have a "zonebreaker" in that game, the zone that I am assuming Princeton will play, could frustrate them ala @ Kansas State. Still have to agree that they will eventually outlast the Tigers, but it won't be easy. Defensively, they should be ready, because like you said, playing them last year should have them prepared for all the back-cuts, etc.
As for the UNC-Texas game, I just am not impressed with the Heels, simply because they play little, if any, defense. Trying to outscore opponents is not the makings of a great tournament team IMO. Yes, they are super-talented on the offensive end, but you really need a D you can hang your hat on when the shots aren't falling. They don't have it and Texas does. I would think Texas would want to slow it down and out-physical the Heels, rather than running with them. But with UNC's matador D, 'Horns may have no other choice than to take all the easy baskets they will give them which would naturally push the pace. Either way, I think Texas has little problems with the Baby Blue.
Anyway, thought I would give you a few of my thoughts. Good luck to you in the tournament, Sun Tzu. Let's hope the Big 12 does indeed have a good showing.
-JC
I agree that the potential OSU-Pitt game could be a dandy. Pitt matches up very well with OSU and would have the edge inside with Taft and Co. Krauser vs. Lucas would be nice individual matchup to see. I think that one could end up being more like a rugby game than a basketball game, if the refs allow it to get that physical. I see it being back and forth, lots of lead changes, but I still think the Cowboys would find a way to win, though. Lots could happen between then and now, though. After all, it wouldn't be called March Madness without some upsets and drama.
I am surprised you don't think S. Carolina or Memphis could give the Cowboys problems? Personally, I am a little worried about that second round game. Hell, for that matter E. Washington is no pushover, not that I see OSU losing, but I could easily see them covering that big number against us. I seem to remember EWU playing OU very tough earlier this year.
As for thoughts on Texas, maybe I am crazy, but IMO Princeton looks to be a bigger possible problem for your 'Horns than UNC. Texas will have to be hitting from the outside in order to win. If they don't have a "zonebreaker" in that game, the zone that I am assuming Princeton will play, could frustrate them ala @ Kansas State. Still have to agree that they will eventually outlast the Tigers, but it won't be easy. Defensively, they should be ready, because like you said, playing them last year should have them prepared for all the back-cuts, etc.
As for the UNC-Texas game, I just am not impressed with the Heels, simply because they play little, if any, defense. Trying to outscore opponents is not the makings of a great tournament team IMO. Yes, they are super-talented on the offensive end, but you really need a D you can hang your hat on when the shots aren't falling. They don't have it and Texas does. I would think Texas would want to slow it down and out-physical the Heels, rather than running with them. But with UNC's matador D, 'Horns may have no other choice than to take all the easy baskets they will give them which would naturally push the pace. Either way, I think Texas has little problems with the Baby Blue.
Anyway, thought I would give you a few of my thoughts. Good luck to you in the tournament, Sun Tzu. Let's hope the Big 12 does indeed have a good showing.
-JC
I think Texas will have an interesting strategy decision. If you slow it doen, youa rent taking advantage of the depth. Of course if you pound it inside and get fouls, you get that benefit. But we ahve seen UNC go up and down the court the whole year and then fall apart in the 2nd half. But you are right in this sense - slow it down and Roy wont know what to do. I would probably prefer up and down early to get some easy shots and some confidence and then just pound it inside and maybe actually make a few fts.
As for Okie State I just havent been impressed at all with Memphis or S Carolina. Memphis could cause problems, but again they are so Jekyll and Hyde. I also think that in OSU's mind (except Lucas obviously) blowing that big lead against Cuse last year may at times effect their play. If a game is tight I think OSU can have trouble, but lately it doesnt get tight enough to fins out.
In my view OSU is in essence a 1 seed as I cant see STJoes coming out of the top half. I will also say on paper they probably ae the best team in the region. I just dont "See it" in them. Lucas is a big difference maker, but not enough. ANd if somehow they did play St Joes, Lucas is mor ethan neutralized.
Bottom line: OSU's draw imo significantly enhances their chances of doing damage, and while I am not picking them it wouldnt shock me to see them in San Antonio.
As for Okie State I just havent been impressed at all with Memphis or S Carolina. Memphis could cause problems, but again they are so Jekyll and Hyde. I also think that in OSU's mind (except Lucas obviously) blowing that big lead against Cuse last year may at times effect their play. If a game is tight I think OSU can have trouble, but lately it doesnt get tight enough to fins out.
In my view OSU is in essence a 1 seed as I cant see STJoes coming out of the top half. I will also say on paper they probably ae the best team in the region. I just dont "See it" in them. Lucas is a big difference maker, but not enough. ANd if somehow they did play St Joes, Lucas is mor ethan neutralized.
Bottom line: OSU's draw imo significantly enhances their chances of doing damage, and while I am not picking them it wouldnt shock me to see them in San Antonio.
I think the real interesting prospect is that either UNC or Texas may have to play that similar style twice in a row, if either loses, to get to the Sweet 16. Princeton v Air Force in a 2nd rd game is highly unlikely, but isnt impossible if both those teams execute their brand of ball & force the more athletic teams to chase the ball & play from behind.
True enough - these first games are not gimmees. UNC and Texas will both need to step on throats early as the fans there will certainly be rooting for the dogs.
I also wonder about UNC mentally - the last thing they need this week is every media person asking "arent you looking forward to a chance to play Duke to go to the Final Four"
I also wonder about UNC mentally - the last thing they need this week is every media person asking "arent you looking forward to a chance to play Duke to go to the Final Four"
Re: Big 12 Teams
Okla St. didn't deserve or expect a #2? 7th in one poll, 3rd in the other, and #6 RPI, and both polls were before they ran through the Big 12 tournament. You say that you don't "see it" with this team, but with all due respect what don't you see? The undefeated home record? The quality road wins (@ Texas, @ Iowa St., @Oklahoma)? The regular season championship coupled with the tournament crown?
I'll ask again, what does this team have to do to prove it's for real? I would not bet against them going up against any team in the country right now.
You have made your opinions about Eddie Sutton well known but, come on, isn't it time to come around on this team?
Sun Tzu said:
Okla St. didn't deserve or expect a #2? 7th in one poll, 3rd in the other, and #6 RPI, and both polls were before they ran through the Big 12 tournament. You say that you don't "see it" with this team, but with all due respect what don't you see? The undefeated home record? The quality road wins (@ Texas, @ Iowa St., @Oklahoma)? The regular season championship coupled with the tournament crown?
I'll ask again, what does this team have to do to prove it's for real? I would not bet against them going up against any team in the country right now.
You have made your opinions about Eddie Sutton well known but, come on, isn't it time to come around on this team?
johnny:
im on the fence with okie state as well. certainly i have no bias one way or the other. theyre definitely 'for real', but like sun said, they dont do it for me either. their 2nd round game vs memphis could be a dangerous, dangerous game. we'll see.
im on the fence with okie state as well. certainly i have no bias one way or the other. theyre definitely 'for real', but like sun said, they dont do it for me either. their 2nd round game vs memphis could be a dangerous, dangerous game. we'll see.
I didnt say a word about the "seed" - my comment was on the draw. They could have been faced with much more difficult teams to play in a 2nd round game than what they got.
And are you really calling road wins at Okie and Iowa State quality? The whole conference is down, and Okie State beat nobody non conference, much less on the road. They didnt play at Kansas, Colorado, or Nebraska, which are often tough road tests in conference. They lost at Tech (blown out), Mizzou, and BYU - so they went 1-2 on the road against tourney teams and a loss to a poor Mizzou squad (where Kansas, Texas, Syracuse all won). They have 3 wins against Texas, which most on here dont think count for much. Throw those out and there isnt a whole lot there but for 2 home wins against Kansas (which didnt win any good road games) and Tech.
No doubt they had a great year, but I just dont think they are all that people are saying. Not a knock on them, I just dont think they are a final four type team. I guess in 2 weeks we will know.
And are you really calling road wins at Okie and Iowa State quality? The whole conference is down, and Okie State beat nobody non conference, much less on the road. They didnt play at Kansas, Colorado, or Nebraska, which are often tough road tests in conference. They lost at Tech (blown out), Mizzou, and BYU - so they went 1-2 on the road against tourney teams and a loss to a poor Mizzou squad (where Kansas, Texas, Syracuse all won). They have 3 wins against Texas, which most on here dont think count for much. Throw those out and there isnt a whole lot there but for 2 home wins against Kansas (which didnt win any good road games) and Tech.
No doubt they had a great year, but I just dont think they are all that people are saying. Not a knock on them, I just dont think they are a final four type team. I guess in 2 weeks we will know.
I'm agreeing with Sun on this one. My intial reaction was that Okie St could be a Final Four contender before the seeds came out, but now as I'm looking over the brackets I think they are in some trouble. Second round vs Memphis is no cakewalk, and if they match up with Pitt in round three @ East Rutherford I think they are in trouble. That East Rutherford crowd will be very pro Big East, you can bet on it.
I stand corrected. I had assumed when you said "draw" that you were talking about "seed", but in the context of what you said you are right that they did get a good draw.
Whether the win at Oklahoma is quality or not is debateable, as they Texas and Missouri were the only other teams to be the Sooners at home this year. However, I really do think the win @Iowa St. was a quality one. It's the only loss Iowa St. had at home this year, and they beat Kansas and Texas. Plus, it wasn't just a win, it was a win by 20 points. I am willing to cut Okie St. some slack on the T Tech and Missouri losses, because they played both of those when those teams were playing the best ball of the year.
But I guess what it comes down to is how you view the quality of the Big 12 this year. You follow it a lot more closely than I but I think it is quite a bit stronger than most people think. Maybe I've just been fooled.
As you said, we will know soon enough . . .
Whether the win at Oklahoma is quality or not is debateable, as they Texas and Missouri were the only other teams to be the Sooners at home this year. However, I really do think the win @Iowa St. was a quality one. It's the only loss Iowa St. had at home this year, and they beat Kansas and Texas. Plus, it wasn't just a win, it was a win by 20 points. I am willing to cut Okie St. some slack on the T Tech and Missouri losses, because they played both of those when those teams were playing the best ball of the year.
But I guess what it comes down to is how you view the quality of the Big 12 this year. You follow it a lot more closely than I but I think it is quite a bit stronger than most people think. Maybe I've just been fooled.
As you said, we will know soon enough . . .
I guess OSU will not get any respect until they make it to the Final four. Which is hard as hell to do. If Kansas would have had the season OSU had the commitee would have given them a number 1 seed hands down. No questions ask. The conference is down? Maybe. But look at the conference St Joes plays in. Do you think they would have a 14-2 record in the big twelve. As for a good draw. Do you think depaul- N.c. state or Texas-xavier is better than pitt-memphis. Who knows? When you get to the sweet 16. All the teams are tough as nails.This is the most athletic team Eddie has ever had at OSU and along with their very good FG% and the better coaching against thier compitition I can see them getting to the final four. Of course the will need a little luck.They will make it to the game with pitt which should be a doozey! If they get past them I hope St Joes is there so they can show them where they belong. Should be fun!
