Anything is possible in the NCAA tourney but pretty hard to imagine St Joe's or Bama winning Saturday.
Saturday
- Thread starter Sun Tzu
- Start date
lines? is the uconn line out already?
i would guess:
uconn -6.5
st.joes pk
:shrug: they out yet? am i in the ballpark?
i would guess:
uconn -6.5
st.joes pk
:shrug: they out yet? am i in the ballpark?
I tell ya what......Okie State finally made a believer outta me.....I feel like an idiot all year fading this team.....they are freakin good....no doubt.
St Joe's is pretty damn good too......but I just think that Okie State does many things better and are a LOT more physical. It is funny saying it, considering I really like the Joe's guards, but I dont know of anything except 3 point shooting that St Joe does better than Okie State.
Okie State defends better, rebounds better, can match the shot creation ability of St Joes.
St Joes will make some shots against Okie State, but I believe that Okie State is far too advanced on the inside.
Eric Williams is a big goofy dope and he ruled the paint. Add some intelligence (which McFarlin and the Grahams have) and they will have major problems.
St Joe's is pretty damn good too......but I just think that Okie State does many things better and are a LOT more physical. It is funny saying it, considering I really like the Joe's guards, but I dont know of anything except 3 point shooting that St Joe does better than Okie State.
Okie State defends better, rebounds better, can match the shot creation ability of St Joes.
St Joes will make some shots against Okie State, but I believe that Okie State is far too advanced on the inside.
Eric Williams is a big goofy dope and he ruled the paint. Add some intelligence (which McFarlin and the Grahams have) and they will have major problems.
I thought Okie State would lose tonight but thought whoever won that game would beat SJ or Wake didnt see anything tonight to change my mind St Joe's has great guards but they arent going to shoot 50%+ on 3s against OSU and it took that for them to barely beat Wake tonight
no way it is a pick. I would find it hard to believe Okie State only giving st. joe a point or two....think more like 4 or 5 point favorites....IMO. 
no way.......guaranteed this line is no more than 2.5
vegas would be silly to make a higher line for st joes than pitt.....
public perception is that pitt is better than st joes. besides you are not gonna have a 1 seed getting 4 or 5 from the 2 seed.....vegas just wont do it.
vegas would be silly to make a higher line for st joes than pitt.....
public perception is that pitt is better than st joes. besides you are not gonna have a 1 seed getting 4 or 5 from the 2 seed.....vegas just wont do it.
mcity said:no way it is a pick. I would find it hard to believe Okie State only giving st. joe a point or two....think more like 4 or 5 point favorites....IMO.
not that seeds matter, but why would oklahoma state lay 2 points to the #3 seed and 4-5 to the #1 seed. not being squarish because seeds dont matter, but still think thats stretching it
If SJU is +5 or more I will absolute HAMMER SJU.....you have to be kidding me if that is line.
SJU will win SU.
SJU will win SU.
just think it is a matter of perception from here on out.....Okie St. pretty much dominated a very tough Pitt team in the second half....while St. Joe battled to the end with a Wake team that I would say is a good notch or two below Pitt. It is just my opinion that a lot of people will be looking at Okie States victory as a lot more impressive compared to St. Joe's.....if the game opens at a pick or 1 or 2, I think Okie St. will get pounded with a ton of $....to balance that perception, and all of the $ that Okie St. is going to garner, I think we're going to see a bigger # than 1 or 2.....but like I said, that is just my opinion. Think people are still waiting for the St. Joe train to derail.
tease,
if public perception is that pitt is tougher than St. Joe and Okie St. was giving pitt 2-3 points....why can't Okie St. give St. Joe 3-4?
if public perception is that pitt is tougher than St. Joe and Okie St. was giving pitt 2-3 points....why can't Okie St. give St. Joe 3-4?
mcity:
i think at very most, okie state would be 1 or 1.5. but i still think its gonna be a pick em.
if okie state is a 1 or 1.5 favorite, that will serve the books purpose of making people think (with the 2 seed being favored over the 1-loss #1 seed)
and youre right, many are waiting for the joes train to derail (incidentally, i think they win saturday) but i dont the books will give joes a ton of value by giving them a full basket or two. thats a LOT.
i think youre right that the perception is that osu is better, but i dont think that translates in a 3 or 4 point chalk
1 or 1.5 at very most
still say st.joes -1 or st.joes pk
i think at very most, okie state would be 1 or 1.5. but i still think its gonna be a pick em.
if okie state is a 1 or 1.5 favorite, that will serve the books purpose of making people think (with the 2 seed being favored over the 1-loss #1 seed)
and youre right, many are waiting for the joes train to derail (incidentally, i think they win saturday) but i dont the books will give joes a ton of value by giving them a full basket or two. thats a LOT.
i think youre right that the perception is that osu is better, but i dont think that translates in a 3 or 4 point chalk
1 or 1.5 at very most
still say st.joes -1 or st.joes pk
gman,
I definitely understand where you are coming from where vegas could make Okie St. a small favorite and probably get the same response from bettors as they would if they made Okie St. a bigger fav., there are a lot of line players out there and that would put a lot of doubt and indecision in peoples minds. I think it will be a great game saturday....St. Joe train is rolling right along...this tourney has long been a guards tourney and right now St. Joe's guards are playing extremely well....can't wait until this game tips....tough game as far as rooting goes.....kind of like eddie sutton......but then again, being a hoosier, it is always in our basketball hearts to root for the little guy.
I definitely understand where you are coming from where vegas could make Okie St. a small favorite and probably get the same response from bettors as they would if they made Okie St. a bigger fav., there are a lot of line players out there and that would put a lot of doubt and indecision in peoples minds. I think it will be a great game saturday....St. Joe train is rolling right along...this tourney has long been a guards tourney and right now St. Joe's guards are playing extremely well....can't wait until this game tips....tough game as far as rooting goes.....kind of like eddie sutton......but then again, being a hoosier, it is always in our basketball hearts to root for the little guy.
I am admittedly biased against Eddie Sutton but can someone explaint to me what there is to "like." Alcoholic and at Kentucky had one of the most crooked programs in NCAA hoops history. No doubt he can coach, but there is nothing to like about the guy personally.
sun,
Given I'm an Indiana alum, maybe I just like the fact that he isn't at kentucky anymore!! :tongue I will say that I appreciate the way Okie St. plays the game....have always "liked" the way he coaches his teams to play tough both offensively and defensively....he obviously had some problems at Kentucky....but that was in the past and I don't believe he's had any problems or violations out at State that I'm aware of.....so we all make mistakes....if you don't continue to make them....you can earn back my respect.
Given I'm an Indiana alum, maybe I just like the fact that he isn't at kentucky anymore!! :tongue I will say that I appreciate the way Okie St. plays the game....have always "liked" the way he coaches his teams to play tough both offensively and defensively....he obviously had some problems at Kentucky....but that was in the past and I don't believe he's had any problems or violations out at State that I'm aware of.....so we all make mistakes....if you don't continue to make them....you can earn back my respect.
Sun Tzu,
I do respect you and your opinions, but I honestly feel you are being unfair and letting your dislike for OSU affect your views of Coach Sutton. If it makes you feel better, I think the fourth time would be the charm for your 'Horns. Haha, just kidding.
Do you know the meaning of a "frozen evaluation" of someone? That is what you are guilty of with Eddie Sutton. The guy obviously had some problems at Kentucky, it is well documented. However, it is easy to see that they were only compounded by his dependency problems. But on a day like today, where we see Larry Eustachy earn a second chance as the USM Golden Eagles hire him after admitting he is an alcoholic, only 11 months ago, you would think you could find it in your heart to realize that people can change for the better.
I know it was not all that publicized, but I attended one of OSU's last home games this year where Sutton was presented the national sportsmanship in coaching award this year (the name of the award escapes me, sorry). Honestly, it is not a huge deal, but they don't just give those out to Bobby Knight-types. Honestly, the man is always very gracious in defeat, treats his players like family, treats media members, other coaches, and their teams with the utmost respect ALL OF THE TIME. He honestly is a good man, with a strong, current faith in God. If you want to continue bringing up his sorted past then go ahead, that is your perogative. Or, you could join the crowd who appreciates and recognizes the contributions Eddie Sutton has had to the game of basketball. He is a Hall-of-Fame coach that deserves kudos for coming back to his alma mater and not only turning around a program, but also turning around his life. We all (yes, everyone of us) have done some stupid things in life, but we move on, mature and learn from them. Eddie Sutton has done just that and I think he will be rewarded handsomely with a championship run this year. I truly hope Eustachy finds similar success in his second chance opportunity at USM.
Good Luck to All,
-JC
I do respect you and your opinions, but I honestly feel you are being unfair and letting your dislike for OSU affect your views of Coach Sutton. If it makes you feel better, I think the fourth time would be the charm for your 'Horns. Haha, just kidding.
Do you know the meaning of a "frozen evaluation" of someone? That is what you are guilty of with Eddie Sutton. The guy obviously had some problems at Kentucky, it is well documented. However, it is easy to see that they were only compounded by his dependency problems. But on a day like today, where we see Larry Eustachy earn a second chance as the USM Golden Eagles hire him after admitting he is an alcoholic, only 11 months ago, you would think you could find it in your heart to realize that people can change for the better.
I know it was not all that publicized, but I attended one of OSU's last home games this year where Sutton was presented the national sportsmanship in coaching award this year (the name of the award escapes me, sorry). Honestly, it is not a huge deal, but they don't just give those out to Bobby Knight-types. Honestly, the man is always very gracious in defeat, treats his players like family, treats media members, other coaches, and their teams with the utmost respect ALL OF THE TIME. He honestly is a good man, with a strong, current faith in God. If you want to continue bringing up his sorted past then go ahead, that is your perogative. Or, you could join the crowd who appreciates and recognizes the contributions Eddie Sutton has had to the game of basketball. He is a Hall-of-Fame coach that deserves kudos for coming back to his alma mater and not only turning around a program, but also turning around his life. We all (yes, everyone of us) have done some stupid things in life, but we move on, mature and learn from them. Eddie Sutton has done just that and I think he will be rewarded handsomely with a championship run this year. I truly hope Eustachy finds similar success in his second chance opportunity at USM.
Good Luck to All,
-JC
Well let's be clear. He supposedly went clean in 1987 when he went to Betty Ford, so the 1989 probation cannot be blamed on dependency if he was/is telling the truth.
I am glad for him if he has turned it around. No doubt he is a great coach. But the fact is what he did is forgotten and never discussed. The fact is that if the NCAA bought into its own guidelines he wouldnt be allowed to coach at all. I suppose the hypocrisy of it all is what bothers me more than him. People like Vitale say "why isnt he in the Hall of Fame" when they know the answer but wont say it. Let's be clear - what he did at Kentucky is worse than anything Tarkanian did at UNLV or Fresno, worse than Harrick, etc. Do you think those guys should be coaching again?
I certainly dont hate OSU or their players. My uncle went there as did my best friend's dad. I actually dont even mind Stillwater (after College Station anything looks good). I of course disliked Eddie when he was at Arkansas, partly as a rival, partly his attitude. Maybe he is a bad example, but if we want cleaner NCAA programs coaches cannot be given 2nd chances. Eustachy didnt cheat - except on his wife, maybe, with a 19 year old and had a few beers. That is a bit different than academic fraud and sending packages of cash to players, or having your son sit in on SAT exams (who of course will get to succeed him.)
If people want to cheer for OSU that is fine of course. I am also happy to let it go and not bring it up again. But when every 5 minutes somebody posts "Eddie is a great guy" or "Eddie deserves it" it is hard not to get into it. Notice how many people don't even remember or know - it's now been 15 years. Just my view that those folks should want it for kids like Lucas who actually have dealt with hardship they themselves were not responsible for. Not for Eddie.
Looks like I may see some OSU fans. I certainly would take a 4th shot at those guys - maybe we could shoot more than 30%.
I am glad for him if he has turned it around. No doubt he is a great coach. But the fact is what he did is forgotten and never discussed. The fact is that if the NCAA bought into its own guidelines he wouldnt be allowed to coach at all. I suppose the hypocrisy of it all is what bothers me more than him. People like Vitale say "why isnt he in the Hall of Fame" when they know the answer but wont say it. Let's be clear - what he did at Kentucky is worse than anything Tarkanian did at UNLV or Fresno, worse than Harrick, etc. Do you think those guys should be coaching again?
I certainly dont hate OSU or their players. My uncle went there as did my best friend's dad. I actually dont even mind Stillwater (after College Station anything looks good). I of course disliked Eddie when he was at Arkansas, partly as a rival, partly his attitude. Maybe he is a bad example, but if we want cleaner NCAA programs coaches cannot be given 2nd chances. Eustachy didnt cheat - except on his wife, maybe, with a 19 year old and had a few beers. That is a bit different than academic fraud and sending packages of cash to players, or having your son sit in on SAT exams (who of course will get to succeed him.)
If people want to cheer for OSU that is fine of course. I am also happy to let it go and not bring it up again. But when every 5 minutes somebody posts "Eddie is a great guy" or "Eddie deserves it" it is hard not to get into it. Notice how many people don't even remember or know - it's now been 15 years. Just my view that those folks should want it for kids like Lucas who actually have dealt with hardship they themselves were not responsible for. Not for Eddie.
Looks like I may see some OSU fans. I certainly would take a 4th shot at those guys - maybe we could shoot more than 30%.
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he called the families of all 10 that died on that night in 2001 from plane crash.not many colege coaches have been through something like that.whatever problems and sins he had committed in the past i think were forgiven that winter night.
