Presidential Politics - A Perspective

Chopsticks

Fish Head
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Feb 15, 2002
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Facts

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... in the fair city of Detroit (Michigan) there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's one American city folks, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq!

Worst president in history?
The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor.

Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.

Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims.

FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year or 9,375 per month.

Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year or 1527 per month.

John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. I think history might show Eisenhower committed the troops and Kennedy was honoring that commitment.

Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From
1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year or 483 per month.

Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers, an average of 300 a year or 25 per month. Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.

Worst president in history? Come on!

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but... It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
 

djv

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This repubican paper giveing credit to liberials. Liberials dont protect our country. At least thats what is said in here everyday. But they have it alittle wrong. Germany did atttack us. Sunk about 300 of our supply ships. Thks to Japan with it's sneak attack we started to do something about it.
Truman after hereing about the deaths of our soldiers by N Korea did the right thing. That was a attack on us. Unless your ok with over 200 dead GI's.
Yes Ike had over 400 in Nam by 1959 and committments were in order. Kennedy kept them.
As for Johnson, Clinton and Bush. They got it right there. Three of a kind. Bush had it right with Afgan. But soemhow lost his way since. Clinton had it right in Bosina. But then really FU.
Johnson thought right for about a year. Then really screwed up.
I see they did miss one thing. Nixion he cut and run.
 

Marco

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Korean War was little more than a civil war....

Vietnam war was little more than a civil war...

Combined U.S. losses fighting in those two: 113,000.....

Combined losses of Korean and Vietnamese who fought in The United States civil war, circa 1860's.......?????

Can anybody tell me the losses to the Korean and Vietnamese Military during OUR civil war?

Could it be they were minding thier own fawking business, and during the 50's, 60's, and 70's we should have been minding OUR OWN BUSINESS????

Korean and Vietnamese wars were nothing short of an absolute waste of lives, resources, and money......

Your government is not always right just because they are your government.
 

djv

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Marco our civil war cost us 606000 dead. They est another 600000 wounded. The reason so many died they say is. Medical help was so limited then it was hard to save many. And that is why the wounded number is no higher becasue so many of the wounded died.
And yes you are right. Our Government makes mistakes. And some cost us more then those who want to hurt us do.
By the way the Vietnamese civil war cost them millions lost. Same with Korea. No true number will ever come out on those two.
The world is not always a nice place. And sad but true religion many times plays apart.
With Korea we could have went home. But that would have been hard with the losses we had taken.
Yes with Nam we all know now. But we could have done that right to. But im not sure if it would have ever ended with out every man woman and child from the north being dead.
So yes sometimes it's better not to be the bull in the china store.
 

Master Capper

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The point that you failed to make in your post was that of course Vietnam was a bad move, but the above mentioned presidents did not lie to the country about the reasons for going to war against the other countries as Bush and company have done. Vietnam and Korea were based on the domino theory that if you allowed communism to spread the countries around Korea and Vietnam would begin to fall like domino's and communism would spread. Bosnia was backed by the United Nations and we were originally there to protect the minorities from being eradicated. Woodward came out with a new book today and says Bush had a secret plan to invade Iraq that he shared with only Cheney and Rumsfeld, I am sure that the administration will now begin to bash Woodward as they have done to anyone else that has told the truth on them, but he is going to be atough one to bash since he is held in high esteem by both Republicans and Dem's. As far as your point on saying that Bush is not the dumbest President you very wel lcould be right as it would be tough to beat Herbert Hoover for that honor, but he is surely not one of the brightest.
 

djv

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Blitz not at all. I wanted him to finish job in Afgan. And then if Iraq was even nececssary go do it. But keep more countries in line with us then the few we have. And do it for reason other then just guessing. Now we will go and get the UN more involved. It's neve to late but we could have done it better from the start. And were still dicking around in Afgan. I never understood the hurry. We do nothing for 12/13 years. Then all of a sudden the sky was falling.
 

Marco

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djv.....my question was how many Koreans and Vietnamese died in OUR civil war, not how many died from the north or the south....if we had losses exceeding 600,000 men, how many troops did Korea or Vietnam ship over here to fight and die....

My point was basically......why do we have to get involved everytime there's some flare-up somewhere on this planet? Seems like everytime something happens we pick a side and send in the military or send in some peace keeping force.....

It's perfectly ok if some other countries on this planet experience war on thier own....

Let them spend thier own money...
Let them kill off each others troops...
Let them grieve for and bury thier own dead....
Let them rebuild the roads and the schools and the infrastructure
Let them add to thier own national debt...
Let them crawl out of abject poverty once the smoke clears.

I hope I'm not the only person in the United States sick and tired of seeing the U.S. pay for and provide the police force for the rest of the planet....

As far as the domino theory of all the small countries falling and ending up being communist governments.......

Is there something wrong with other countries having a government that's not a democracy? It's perfectly ok if there are different forms of government on this planet, not every country on the globe wants to be Americanized.

Part of the problem behind the terrorist thing is that we have troops all over the planet, and let's face it, we're being seen by some groups on the same planet as being meddlesome......add to that you have people feeling absolutely religiously correct for thier own actions, and willing to fight for and die on nothing more than a few words from a person who they have high regards for, and you have just created the next suicide bomber....

My thinking is, instead of "we lost 200 men in Korea therefore we must fight a war"..........

it would be "WHAT WERE WE DOING THERE IN THE FAWKING FIRST PLACE?"

Stay the fvck out of all these armpit nations of the planet and start taking care of our own country.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Chops I'll have to archive your initial post.

Liked your also Marco--and agree we stick our noses in too many places that we don't belong but will add in the mideast I do think we belong. When there is a threat we need to protect our country and people. Islam fundamentalist are not going away and must be dealt with world wide. We could not afford to set back and let Germany decide their time schedule and results of looking the other way the past eight years proved quite unsuccessful as 911 and North Korea building nukes has proven.
I do adamantly agree footing bill to construct Iraq is not our job.
Especially in light of fact that most the population appears not to care that others destroy as quick as we fix.--The only one similarity I see to Viet Nam (other than distinguishing the good gut from the bad)is you have group of people that have been beaten down for decades into a very passive nature. I don't think they have the will to fend for themselves. Spainards did same thing to Philippinos. They will walk a mile everyday to avoid confrontation rather than resolve it. If the people in Iraq do not want freedom its not going to happen regardless of U.S. input.
 

djv

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Marco I understood just put some numbers up. And yes your right. I don't know who said we were the cop's of the world. And again your right it piss's many of them off. Then they wish to take it out on us. And some times it's not good as 9/11 taught us. The stand we just took with Israel this week. That should only cause us more trouble.
 
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