Eddies Heroes

[Marco]

PRO 190

PRO 190

Honor and commitment......how about our government's role in honor and commitment.....

I can understand this thing about chasing after terrorists....nobody should have to take it in the ass because a group of people find a hobby that combines rental trucks and fertilizer......

Other than this terrorist hunting, since WWII, what military actions has the US engaged in that could be deemed as done in self-defense?

Honor and commitment applies to the government, too

Of the people, by the people, and for the people does not mean everybody on the whole goddamn planet.

You say nobody FORCED these people to enlist......then why run for Canada when thier draft number came up?

Those pukes that I covet had every rightful reason to run for Canada for the simple fact that we had no business in Vietnam....I would have felt different had they ran from duty during WWII.........WWII was a war fought in self-defense.....Vietnam was someone else's civil war for someone else to fight, period.

Maybe back during the days of WWII there was more honor and commitment by the government.......since then after seeing all the double-dealing.......scandals......all the under the table deals.....graft and corruption by politicians and thier ties to defense contractors.....bribery........my sense of honor and commitment to the government has faded.......people enlisted in the military have just about as good a chance being kia because of political greed as they do fighting for something justifiable....

Honor and commitment means more than just going off to some foreign land because your government says so, and die like sheep being sent off to slaughter.....

 

[PRO190]

Pro190 Susan Sarandon does not speak for the left she speaks for herself.

Then WHO speaks for YOU?
OH SORRY, I guess Franken,Garafalo,Moore,etc just speak for themselves too, all of a sudden when you are embarrassed by your cohorts they are an outsider, the amusement continues!

 

[djv]

I dont need anyone to speak for me. Even in here we got folks that wont study history. However the Right and Left both have soem real ding bats to say the least. Look at Cheney.

 

[SixFive]

Then WHO speaks for YOU?
OH SORRY, I guess Franken,Garafalo,Moore,etc just speak for themselves too, all of a sudden when you are embarrassed by your cohorts they are an outsider, the amusement continues!

To StevieD's credit, I have seen him post several times he dislikes this bunch more than he does the right wingers.

 

[StevieD]

Pro190 I can point out a few radical right wingers, McVie and Nicholes come to mind right away. Am I to believe that they speak for you? Okay, maybe someone not so far right, does Pat Buchanon speak for you? I see he doesn't always agree with the President? Stop taking people on the outside edges and try to tie everyone who doesn't agree with Bush together.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Stevie I think where line is drawn on the far left and far right is conservatives in general dislike the far right(McVie and Nicholes types) as much as liberals do---however for the most liberals embrace the far left. I don't see any conservative sites hyping the right extremist yet the liberal sites, moveon.org ect, have daily fane fare from the far left.

You see demonstrations and revolts in numerous countries daily.

Why is it that almost all protests and demonstrations in U.S. come from liberals. Aside from the abortion issue I have hard time thinking of demonstration or protests that conservatives participate in.
My thoughts on matter are that most conservatives are at work and liberals have too much time on their hands and too many explainations why it is not their fault.

---and for the record my thoughts on abortion--I think it is personal choice between person and their beliefs. Until the day comes that I have to carry the child to nine month term my opinion is secondary.

P.S. Look for Mark Rich to be resurfacing in head lines

 

[StevieD]

Dogs, I have to disagree. I do not think that most Liberals embrace the far left any more than Consevatives embrace the far right. There are nut jobs on both sides.

 

[PRO190]

Re: PRO 190

Re: PRO 190

Honor and commitment......how about our government's role in honor and commitment.....

I can understand this thing about chasing after terrorists....nobody should have to take it in the ass because a group of people find a hobby that combines rental trucks and fertilizer......

Other than this terrorist hunting, since WWII, what military actions has the US engaged in that could be deemed as done in self-defense?

Honor and commitment applies to the government, too

Of the people, by the people, and for the people does not mean everybody on the whole goddamn planet.

You say nobody FORCED these people to enlist......then why run for Canada when thier draft number came up?

Those pukes that I covet had every rightful reason to run for Canada for the simple fact that we had no business in Vietnam....I would have felt different had they ran from duty during WWII.........WWII was a war fought in self-defense.....Vietnam was someone else's civil war for someone else to fight, period.

1) WTF, this is 2004 and we are talking about Iraq, when did I mention anything about people in the draft regarding being forced.

2) Govt has to make tough choices, right or wrong they decided to go into Iraq, your boys signed a CONTRACT to FOLLOW the ORDERS, IT IS VERY SIMPLE! The Govt committed to pay, train and house the soldiers and they honored that. Your boys committed to serve and they dishonored their commitment.

3)WWII vs Germany was fought in self defense ? I don't remember Germany attacking us until after we declared War and started to send merchant ships to help Britain.

4)AGAIN get off Vietnam and defend the desertion of your pals Hinzman and Hughey.

5)SD :As per the usual, liberal exaggeration, don't stretch it , it is obvious 99.9% of the people in the U.S. despise those Pukes McVie and Nichols.
Do you support the desertion and reasoning behind your comrades in Canada, if you do you are of the mindset that Sarandon and the rest live by:
Hell I'll admit it, If O'reilly ran for President I'd vote for him, he intellectually crushes liberal attitude everyday:
Don't be afraid to admit your with the crowd you run with, Sarandon and the rest are a part of you as long as you lye with those dogs.

 

[Marco]

I realize this thread was started about a dodger from the Iraq situation.....I was commenting more about djv's posting about the 4300 that dodged the draft and went to Canada to avoid serving in Vietnam.....

after all that I have seen about what went on in Vietnam there is no way in hell anyone can tell me the US government was correct in going over there to fight.....

one thing I forgot to mention was "rules of engagement"......numerous pilots who fought in Nam spoke of how they spent like ten days bombing the same area......the place looked like the moon and yet they continued to drop bombs there.....they could clearly see the airstrips that the enemy migs were leaving to attack them, yet they couldn't attack the airstrip or the enemy planes while they were grounded......

add to that the fact that they flew at the same time everyday....all the enemy had to do was get ready and start firing cuz they knew when we were coming.....

so they bombed the same place another day and the migs came up to engage them another day and they were just following orders.....

where is the governments honor and commitment when it chooses to fight wars in this manner? Those pilots were in nothing more than a suicide mission.....surprising any made it back to tell the story.....

The point of the draft is forcing men to fight, otherwise why all the big fuss with the government looking for them in another country.......

I look at the terrorist angle as being less justifiable to run away from than dodging to serve in Vietnam.......my pals Hinzman and Hughey, as you call them, don't compare in any way whatsoever to the men who ducked outta going to Nam......Nam was an abortion from the minute we got over there.....we had no reason to be there, no obvious plan of attack or desire to employ strategies to win.....the plans we adopted there were politicized to the point where soldiers had to call back to ask permission to fire back.......tell one of those fighter pilots he can fire back after one of his wings gets shot off......

Germany was well on its way towards being an enemy as witnessed by the numerous attacks by the u-boat fleet on American shipping....

Some people think that all draft dodgers should be treated the same and be viewed the same.......obviously the reasoning behind fighting these wars is not the same for every war we fight in.......Vietnam was about the spread of communism and the Iraq/Afgan about terrorism and wmd......

When people talk about honor and commitment of our troops, the government also has honor and commitment to it's country and the citizens contained within to properly provide for and spend the nations economy in a prudent and proper manner......fighting every nation's goddamn war on the planet doesn't count as running a government correctly........

Whether I'm of the mindset of Sarandon or whoever is irrelevant, whatever they think is what they think, it may be the same as mine or not.......

When people talk of all this duty to fight for thier government they are assuming that thier government is correct in it's actions or it's stance.........history would say then that since Hitler ran a government in Germany......all those German soldiers who fought for the reich were supposed to feel glorified and patriotic to the German cause........which from all accounts thier cause appeared to be the complete and utter domination of Europe, England and Russia, and the slaughter of Jews and anyone they felt as inferior to the white german race.....would someone conceivably even think that it was correct to fight for Germany considering the fact that they were destroying and looting most of Europe and hunting the European Jew out of existence like the passenger pigeon was eliminated?

Yeah, I know, if you were a German and you didn't fight you were shot........I guess they had a "duty"......and "honor and commitment" to uphold for thier government......I also guess that the Jews and all the other oppressed and hunted people there would have been disappointed to hear of German draft dodgers?

Your government isn't correct because it's your government.....sound decisions and reasoning by governments make them correct.......

Where is all the duty and honor and commitment when your government is trying to turn the planet into a graveyard?

 

[StevieD]

PRO190 That is just the point. I do not support their running to Canada. Get it? I don't support them. I am a liberal and I do not support them running to Canada. Most liberals do not support that action. Just because someone on tv or radio told you liberal do doesn't make it so.

 

[Chanman]

Marco- Everyone knows our Govt is not perfect, but its the best we've got. djv served in V. Nam and also said, if I'm not mistaken, the deserters to Canada should be shot. We, (myself included), may p*ss & moan but that does not mean all views are not welcome-views not attacks IMHO.

Canadians Allow Islamic Courts To Decide Disputes
Sharia Gains Foothold in Ontario

By DeNeen L. Brown
Washington Post Foreign Service
Wednesday, April 28, 2004; Page A14

(excerpt)
TORONTO -- Suad Almad, her head wrapped in a blue silk scarf, was discussing her beliefs with a group of friends. She said fervently that she thought the lives of all Muslims should be governed by Islamic law, known as sharia.

"It's something nobody can change and we must follow," said Almad, who came to Canada from Somalia, then engulfed by war, more than 12 years ago. "We come to Canada and we become lost . . . We need our own court and we need our own law," she said, her voice strong and certain. "That's what I believe."

Almad and thousands of other Muslims, taking advantage of a provision of the law in the province of Ontario, can now decide some civil disputes under sharia, including family disagreements and inheritance, business and divorce issues, using tribunals that include imams, Muslim elders and lawyers. While it is less than full implementation of sharia, local leaders consider it a significant step.

Muslim promoters of sharia arbitration said that no cases had been decided but that the process is set. Islamic leaders created an Islamic Court of Civil Justice last fall and that organization, in turn, has chosen arbitrators, who have undergone training in sharia and Canadian civil law, according to organizers and participants.

Sharia is based on the Koran, which includes the teachings of Islam and revelations by the prophet Muhammad. According to Muslim beliefs, the Koran provides the divine rules for behavior, including rules about marriage, business and inheritance. Muslims must abstain from stealing, lying, killing, adultery and drinking alcohol.

Some Muslim leaders in Canada said that there should be no controversy about the new arbitration process, but some opponents expressed concern that people might feel coerced into accepting sharia-based arbitration. Government officials said that the decision to submit to such a process was subject to mutual consent.

 

[SixFive]

Just to clarify on the comment I pasted below. Hitler was masterful on nation building. Many of the German people still had a bad taste in their mouth from the first World War and all of the litany of sactions placed on them by the Treaty of Versailles. The Germans were a very proud and prosperous people, and Hitler helped raise them back to that state. Part of that included scapegoating the Jews, but I would say it would be comparable to racism today against a race or ethnicity. The Germans were fighting for the Fatherland and to defend it from the world and build it up. It was a like a huge pep rally there, only Hitler didn't stop with proud people, he had other goals which we are all aware of. Also, the common German soldier and most of the people (unless u were downwind of a concentration camp or worked in one then you were brainwashed into thinking it was right) didn't know anything about the concentration camps. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is the common German people and soldiers had a goal of Nationalism and patriotism, not world domination and extinction of the Jew. They fought hard for their country, and they were good soldiers, much like our American men. They just were born in Germany.

When people talk of all this duty to fight for thier government they are assuming that thier government is correct in it's actions or it's stance.........history would say then that since Hitler ran a government in Germany......all those German soldiers who fought for the reich were supposed to feel glorified and patriotic to the German cause........which from all accounts thier cause appeared to be the complete and utter domination of Europe, England and Russia, and the slaughter of Jews and anyone they felt as inferior to the white german race.....would someone conceivably even think that it was correct to fight for Germany considering the fact that they were destroying and looting most of Europe and hunting the European Jew out of existence like the passenger pigeon was eliminated?

Yeah, I know, if you were a German and you didn't fight you were shot........I guess they had a "duty"......and "honor and commitment" to uphold for thier government......I also guess that the Jews and all the other oppressed and hunted people there would have been disappointed to hear of German draft dodgers?

 

[PRO190]

Where is all the duty and honor and commitment when your government is trying to turn the planet into a graveyard?

The Planet a GRAVEYARD, Another Blatant Left Exaggeration.
We go to Iraq to give these people a chance to get out of the stone age and be a Prosperous and stabilizing Mid-eastern nation and they stick their head in the sand: Look at all the graveyards we have produced there compared to all the Graveyards we found and PREVENTED!

SD: Great to hear you are in support of the Good Guys
Now get that email off to the PM and PM of Immigration to send our traitors ahh.... countrymen back.

 

[Marco]

PRO 190

PRO 190

My comment on the government turning the planet into a graveyard was directed to the actions of Hitler and Hito during WWII......NOT THE ACTIONS IN IRAQ/AFGANISTAN.

If you count up the dead from WWII you will come to the conclusion that using the word "graveyard" would not be another blatant left exaggeration......hardly an exaggeration at all.....