Farenheit 9/11
- Thread starter Shataken
- Start date
Turfgrass said:
Turf,
These types of statements are relative, and while they can be demeaning to the American troops they do have some truth to them. To us they are 'insurgents,' 'terrorits,' and 'the enemy.' From their point of view they are just protecting their country, and to themselves, they are the minute men. To them we are the terrorists.
I don't mean to turn this into a debate on the war, but what would you do if your country was invaded? Would you sit on your ass and let some foreign military run tanks through your streets and drop bombs on your buildings?
I find it quite amusing how Bush backers jump to his defense claiming lies & inaccuracy, while its their guy that it employs such scum as Mr. Rove and his gross slanderous campaign against the good senator McCain.
Further how exactly is a lie debated when nobody steps forward offering the truth. Case in point, does anybody actually believe gw didn't duck Vietnam? If you don't, I can't have a rational conversation with you. Of course Bush isn't going to admit the truth, instead he has chosen to ignore the subject all together. So if you do your research & read as much as you can on the subject, that hasn't been destroyed that is, and come to the only sensible conclusion possible, he avoided Vietnam using Family names & relationships, you are inaccurate because the fact is that he never ADMITTED SUCH. Sorry guys sometimes you have to connect the dots yourself, think for yourself.
Has the Bush Family ever been straightforward honest about their relationships with bin laden Family & Saudi bag men. Answer no. Oh yes but obl has been disbanded by his Family, ya right. Everyone knows that the overwhelming majority of money to fuel terrorist attacks has come from Saudi Arabia & Egypt.
This and this alone is enough reason for me not wanting Bush has president. If this is not a conflict of interest on the highest scale, the phrase should never have been invented. How can you be at war with the middle East & terrorism and simultaneously business partners with Saudi bag men.
If you think we as American citizens were granted the same privileges as foreign Saudi Arabians and Royals immediately following 9-11, you are grossly mistaken. My brother was in the world trade center, his company lost 22 people. After being treated like shitt like every other American at JFK, he ended up thumbing and walking back to Massachusetts. This while those Royals sand scum were chauffeured around in limousines and chartered jets.
Further how exactly is a lie debated when nobody steps forward offering the truth. Case in point, does anybody actually believe gw didn't duck Vietnam? If you don't, I can't have a rational conversation with you. Of course Bush isn't going to admit the truth, instead he has chosen to ignore the subject all together. So if you do your research & read as much as you can on the subject, that hasn't been destroyed that is, and come to the only sensible conclusion possible, he avoided Vietnam using Family names & relationships, you are inaccurate because the fact is that he never ADMITTED SUCH. Sorry guys sometimes you have to connect the dots yourself, think for yourself.
Has the Bush Family ever been straightforward honest about their relationships with bin laden Family & Saudi bag men. Answer no. Oh yes but obl has been disbanded by his Family, ya right. Everyone knows that the overwhelming majority of money to fuel terrorist attacks has come from Saudi Arabia & Egypt.
This and this alone is enough reason for me not wanting Bush has president. If this is not a conflict of interest on the highest scale, the phrase should never have been invented. How can you be at war with the middle East & terrorism and simultaneously business partners with Saudi bag men.
If you think we as American citizens were granted the same privileges as foreign Saudi Arabians and Royals immediately following 9-11, you are grossly mistaken. My brother was in the world trade center, his company lost 22 people. After being treated like shitt like every other American at JFK, he ended up thumbing and walking back to Massachusetts. This while those Royals sand scum were chauffeured around in limousines and chartered jets.
shamrock
shamrock
i hear you....but remember that the "royal sandscum"(lol) as you so aptly described them hold one of the keys to this economy....
and if their regime were overturned,it might not be the best thing that ever happened to our country.....
are they intolerant,some might say two faced, reprehensible characters?.....probably.....they might be one of the main propagators of radical wahabism that breeds the terrorist mentality...
but we need them....that`s why they get preferential treatment....
they are one of the few countries that can turn up oil production when we desperately need them to...we`ve already seen prices dip a bit in the last few weeks...
are they playing us like fiddles?.....probably....
but until we can figure out how to extricate ourselves from oil dependence,they are probably as good as we are gonna get ally-wise in the middle east...and even with other oil options available,the middle east is the hub...
everything in this world can`t always be ideologically pristine....sometimes you have to lay down with dogs.....if it`s in your best interests...
hope you are doing well,bud...
shamrock
i hear you....but remember that the "royal sandscum"(lol) as you so aptly described them hold one of the keys to this economy....
and if their regime were overturned,it might not be the best thing that ever happened to our country.....
are they intolerant,some might say two faced, reprehensible characters?.....probably.....they might be one of the main propagators of radical wahabism that breeds the terrorist mentality...
but we need them....that`s why they get preferential treatment....
they are one of the few countries that can turn up oil production when we desperately need them to...we`ve already seen prices dip a bit in the last few weeks...
are they playing us like fiddles?.....probably....
but until we can figure out how to extricate ourselves from oil dependence,they are probably as good as we are gonna get ally-wise in the middle east...and even with other oil options available,the middle east is the hub...
everything in this world can`t always be ideologically pristine....sometimes you have to lay down with dogs.....if it`s in your best interests...
hope you are doing well,bud...
garden, as usual your points are well taken and I can't say I disagree. Dependency is the word you use that captures the situation at hand. Its reprehensible how this country has become a junkie for Saudi Arabian fossil fuels. This has to stop, and along with health care, should be the sole primary concerns of the next administration.
I strongly encourage anyone to read & study just a little what Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran etc. resembled just a mere ****ing 50-60 years ago. What mine and yours and every other U.S. citizens money has done for places like Qutar and the rest of these Saudi Arabian sand traps. FUK THEM! these 2 faced bastards, I forget the phrase, but they are in no way our ally. From grade School Age they are taught to despise & hate Americans. They are not allies, they are crude oil crack dealers, that wail much to much power. You are correct about one fact, money develops strange bed fellows, and sometimes you do indeed sleep with dogs, but when you do, you should be ready to be bitten, and we have been indeed bitten, what now? I say to start with a president that isn't business partners profiteering from this whole malady.
Best
shamrock
I strongly encourage anyone to read & study just a little what Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran etc. resembled just a mere ****ing 50-60 years ago. What mine and yours and every other U.S. citizens money has done for places like Qutar and the rest of these Saudi Arabian sand traps. FUK THEM! these 2 faced bastards, I forget the phrase, but they are in no way our ally. From grade School Age they are taught to despise & hate Americans. They are not allies, they are crude oil crack dealers, that wail much to much power. You are correct about one fact, money develops strange bed fellows, and sometimes you do indeed sleep with dogs, but when you do, you should be ready to be bitten, and we have been indeed bitten, what now? I say to start with a president that isn't business partners profiteering from this whole malady.
Best
shamrock
six-five
Sorry, but I missed your post. My apology. I saw DTB's post and was replying to it and missed yours and another one.
______________________
"Gee, this sure sounds above board and far above character assassin"ation"
______
Thanks. I thought it sounded above board and far from character assassination myself. Appreciate a man that has the intelligence to discriminate.
_________________
Can't think of anything more benign than questioning a man's manhood and referring to him as a priss.
___________
He was acting like a little priss. What's to question?
Sorry, but I missed your post. My apology. I saw DTB's post and was replying to it and missed yours and another one.
______________________
"Gee, this sure sounds above board and far above character assassin"ation"
______
Thanks. I thought it sounded above board and far from character assassination myself. Appreciate a man that has the intelligence to discriminate.
_________________
Can't think of anything more benign than questioning a man's manhood and referring to him as a priss.
___________
He was acting like a little priss. What's to question?
""The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win. Get it, Mr. Bush?"
Pray tell me how anyone with a light on could give this ANY credibilty.
The insurgents/enemy/ terrorist are killing far more Iraqi's than U.S. troops. They are the Iraqi's enemy crippling their resources as we try and build. Killing thier leaders as we try and transfer power.
Moore is correct to some extent "the terrorists" numbers will grow and many can be attributed to his BS.
Pray tell me how anyone with a light on could give this ANY credibilty.
The insurgents/enemy/ terrorist are killing far more Iraqi's than U.S. troops. They are the Iraqi's enemy crippling their resources as we try and build. Killing thier leaders as we try and transfer power.
Moore is correct to some extent "the terrorists" numbers will grow and many can be attributed to his BS.
Chanman
"Cheese and Rice Auspice, WTF? And I thought the Lush Limbaugh Harangue was bad. Now you disregard facts and want opinions. I'm all for ppl seeing his mockumentaries. If its that important to you you shouldn't be questioning other ppl's reactions IMHO. Personally I'd rather see him take on McDonalds or Pizza"
__________
Sorry I've been so long in replying. My mistake. Was replying to an earlier poster earlier and missed yours. My apology. It was an oversight, nothing more. Again, my apology.
_________________
Lush has made so many erroneous blantant lies that he's simply fair game. Sorry if you find that offensive but he's crossed the line so many times with his lies and banter there's simply no excusing him now. And it's on purpose on his part. The banter of the right is 'unite the american people' but pragmatically it's always been about dividing and conquering. Be honest, the tone and subject matter of Lush has always been about doing this. To somehow act otherwise or even pretend otherwise just isn't honest.
Besides, the Lush Limbaugh tirade was in a post where I questioned him being broadcast on a taxpayer funded program that possibly goes to the Iraqi people. Do you think Lush being broadcast or heard by the Iraqi peope or any other arab country is a wise thing?
As far as wanting facts....no, I simply wanted his opinion on the movie. What's the point of going to some right wing website and copying and pasting what they say about it and bringing it here without ever watching the movie? Am I supposed to then go to some left wing website and find somehting that would make his look small or foolish without ever having watched the movie? Screw that, I'm too old.
Looking back, perhaps I was too callaus with gardenweasle in calling him a prissy azz. If today were yesterday I wouldn't have done it. But... he's done it numerous times to Moore without ever broaching anything the guy actually said. It just set me off a little.
I apologize calling him a prissy azz it if that upsets you.
BTW....I think you're right about the McDonalds or Pizza thing. He looked like he's pushing 4 bills on a show I watched the other night. He's not going to be around long if he doesn't drop a ton.
"Cheese and Rice Auspice, WTF? And I thought the Lush Limbaugh Harangue was bad. Now you disregard facts and want opinions. I'm all for ppl seeing his mockumentaries. If its that important to you you shouldn't be questioning other ppl's reactions IMHO. Personally I'd rather see him take on McDonalds or Pizza"
__________
Sorry I've been so long in replying. My mistake. Was replying to an earlier poster earlier and missed yours. My apology. It was an oversight, nothing more. Again, my apology.
_________________
Lush has made so many erroneous blantant lies that he's simply fair game. Sorry if you find that offensive but he's crossed the line so many times with his lies and banter there's simply no excusing him now. And it's on purpose on his part. The banter of the right is 'unite the american people' but pragmatically it's always been about dividing and conquering. Be honest, the tone and subject matter of Lush has always been about doing this. To somehow act otherwise or even pretend otherwise just isn't honest.
Besides, the Lush Limbaugh tirade was in a post where I questioned him being broadcast on a taxpayer funded program that possibly goes to the Iraqi people. Do you think Lush being broadcast or heard by the Iraqi peope or any other arab country is a wise thing?
As far as wanting facts....no, I simply wanted his opinion on the movie. What's the point of going to some right wing website and copying and pasting what they say about it and bringing it here without ever watching the movie? Am I supposed to then go to some left wing website and find somehting that would make his look small or foolish without ever having watched the movie? Screw that, I'm too old.
Looking back, perhaps I was too callaus with gardenweasle in calling him a prissy azz. If today were yesterday I wouldn't have done it. But... he's done it numerous times to Moore without ever broaching anything the guy actually said. It just set me off a little.
I apologize calling him a prissy azz it if that upsets you.
BTW....I think you're right about the McDonalds or Pizza thing. He looked like he's pushing 4 bills on a show I watched the other night. He's not going to be around long if he doesn't drop a ton.
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not to reopen old wounds
not to reopen old wounds
but auspice....moore`s views are an open book.......he`s not objective....not one whit......i understand you trying to put people on the defensive...put the onus on them to justify this moron`s bomb throwing......i understand the ploy....
if you like his schtick,fine....it`s littered with half truths like....the fbi not being in the loop regarding the bin laden family`s exodus....
like in the "stupid white men" book....he plays fast and loose with the facts. .....he states that five-sixths of the U.S. defense budget in 2001 went toward the construction of a single type of plane and that two-thirds of the $190 million that President Bush raised in his 2000 campaign came from just over 700 individuals, a preposterous assertion given that the limit for individual contributions at the time was $1,000.......
when cnn's lou dobbs asked moore about his inaccuracies, he shrugged off the quesiton. "you know, look, this is a book of political humor. So, I mean, I don't respond to that sort of stuff, you know," he said.
"glaring inaccuracies?" mr. dobbs said.
"no, I don't. why should I? how can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"......
there`s tons of this stuff around...it`s what the guy does.....and to be fair,limbaugh is a similar character....
he`s a bomb thrower...
these guys don`t have an objective bone in their bodies....they have agendas.....they are ideologues...they aren`t reporters....everything they say needs verification.... ...one note charlies......
i don`t like him...them...that`s as much justification as i can muster tonight....
not to reopen old wounds
but auspice....moore`s views are an open book.......he`s not objective....not one whit......i understand you trying to put people on the defensive...put the onus on them to justify this moron`s bomb throwing......i understand the ploy....
if you like his schtick,fine....it`s littered with half truths like....the fbi not being in the loop regarding the bin laden family`s exodus....
like in the "stupid white men" book....he plays fast and loose with the facts. .....he states that five-sixths of the U.S. defense budget in 2001 went toward the construction of a single type of plane and that two-thirds of the $190 million that President Bush raised in his 2000 campaign came from just over 700 individuals, a preposterous assertion given that the limit for individual contributions at the time was $1,000.......
when cnn's lou dobbs asked moore about his inaccuracies, he shrugged off the quesiton. "you know, look, this is a book of political humor. So, I mean, I don't respond to that sort of stuff, you know," he said.
"glaring inaccuracies?" mr. dobbs said.
"no, I don't. why should I? how can there be inaccuracy in comedy?"......
there`s tons of this stuff around...it`s what the guy does.....and to be fair,limbaugh is a similar character....
he`s a bomb thrower...
these guys don`t have an objective bone in their bodies....they have agendas.....they are ideologues...they aren`t reporters....everything they say needs verification.... ...one note charlies......
i don`t like him...them...that`s as much justification as i can muster tonight....
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gardenweasle
I understand your angst. I really do. I feel the same way about Lush. But the whole point of my post wasn't to defend Moore. If you reread one of my posts to Kosar I pointed out that everybody has to be suspicious of anyone that has a financial stake in his version of the 'truth'.
My point was, why pound Moore continuously without ever bringing WHY you felt as such to the forum. It's happened numerous times. That was the entire crux of my post and it's been turned into something else by all the right wingers today.
Sorry if it's gotten everyone so upset.
I understand your angst. I really do. I feel the same way about Lush. But the whole point of my post wasn't to defend Moore. If you reread one of my posts to Kosar I pointed out that everybody has to be suspicious of anyone that has a financial stake in his version of the 'truth'.
My point was, why pound Moore continuously without ever bringing WHY you felt as such to the forum. It's happened numerous times. That was the entire crux of my post and it's been turned into something else by all the right wingers today.
Sorry if it's gotten everyone so upset.
What is "the truth"?
Again, it goes back to what you choose to believe. Why is Moore/Limbaugh right/wrong?
If you don't see something first hand, how do you know what you are hearing is the "truth"?
The people who think they know the most, have the most to learn...........
Again, it goes back to what you choose to believe. Why is Moore/Limbaugh right/wrong?
If you don't see something first hand, how do you know what you are hearing is the "truth"?
The people who think they know the most, have the most to learn...........
auspice
auspice
i shouldn`t have jumped you for the "prizzy azz" comment
.....
.....we all have our own opinions...
no sweat.....and no hard feelings from my end.....
auspice
i shouldn`t have jumped you for the "prizzy azz" comment
..........we all have our own opinions...
no sweat.....and no hard feelings from my end.....
Auspice
Auspice
Your post to me reinforces my opinion of you. Thank You for the Mea Culpa. Although I don't see eye to eye w/you on some issues, I am willing to listen and greatlky appreciate your posts. Some things we have to get off our chests and Moore is a bane to me is just like Limbaugh is to you. I think its that simple. I would much rather listen to you, StevieD, Kosar, etc. than close minded Conservatives. We all have the same end in mind, just different paths to take on the way.
As a sidenote, personally I think the Muslim Extremists have f*cked up murdering the Korean civilian. (I still remember the "White Horse" stories about Korea Soldiers in Viet Nam.) God, Allah and/or Buddha help the Arab Fanatic who crosses the 3,000 So. Korean soldiers in Iraq now. I only had a little glimpse of the Korean military and the Islamofacists asked for it and they'll get it in spades.
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/
Auspice
Your post to me reinforces my opinion of you. Thank You for the Mea Culpa. Although I don't see eye to eye w/you on some issues, I am willing to listen and greatlky appreciate your posts. Some things we have to get off our chests and Moore is a bane to me is just like Limbaugh is to you. I think its that simple. I would much rather listen to you, StevieD, Kosar, etc. than close minded Conservatives. We all have the same end in mind, just different paths to take on the way.
As a sidenote, personally I think the Muslim Extremists have f*cked up murdering the Korean civilian. (I still remember the "White Horse" stories about Korea Soldiers in Viet Nam.) God, Allah and/or Buddha help the Arab Fanatic who crosses the 3,000 So. Korean soldiers in Iraq now. I only had a little glimpse of the Korean military and the Islamofacists asked for it and they'll get it in spades.
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/
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Cman Here are more articles from SK that may be of interest to you if you have not read them already.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/asia/kr.html
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/asia/kr.html
YYZ what is the truth? Good questions. Sometimes I feal the only way we get that is from over seas.
9/11 seems like it's doing well. Of course with Moore getting attention just like he is here. Im sure it will. He must be laughing all the way to the bank. Such as Rush. Ann Dickhead and Hannity do everyday.
9/11 seems like it's doing well. Of course with Moore getting attention just like he is here. Im sure it will. He must be laughing all the way to the bank. Such as Rush. Ann Dickhead and Hannity do everyday.
djv said:
DJV,
Yea. Both Moore and Clinton's books are ALL over the place here in London. Clinton seems to be quite the popular guy here, much more than he is in the US.
Yelajakitz
".....over the place here in London.."
________
Guess from your post that you're 'over the pond'? If so, I'm a big fan of a tv show called 'coupling'. It's a british comedy and it's shown on a cable tv channel where I live. Is it still being produced or is it now in a rerun mode? Love the show, hope it's still being produced. Just curious. Thanks.
".....over the place here in London.."
________
Guess from your post that you're 'over the pond'? If so, I'm a big fan of a tv show called 'coupling'. It's a british comedy and it's shown on a cable tv channel where I live. Is it still being produced or is it now in a rerun mode? Love the show, hope it's still being produced. Just curious. Thanks.
auspice said:
Auspice,
I'm here visiting, yes. I haven't seen the show here, but have seen commercials for it on comedy central. Sorry I couldn't help you out anymore.
"Hey, Michael, Where Were Your Friends?
Once upon a time, there was Michael Moore the First. He never forgot his friends. Come time for the Washington, DC premiere of Bowling for Columbine a while back, he invited his old buddies in Washington?gave them good seats and spent the rest of the evening with them. During his other movie's premiere, he affectionately recognized how much those old friends helped him and supported him after he was mistreated and let go by Mother Jones. He was generous with his words and time.
Now there is Michael Moore the Second. Last night he hosted the Washington, DC premiere of Fahrenheit 9/11, and who was there? The Democratic political establishment, the same people whom he took to such mocking task on the road with us in campaign rally after campaign rally in 2000. Who was not there? His old buddies! Not personally invited, not personally hung out with.
A few weeks ago, Michael, I sent you a message: "Hey, Dude, where's my Buddy?" It is attached. It has gone without reply. It simply asked you to come back to your progressive constituency and take on the two-party monopoly of our rigged election system?to challenge the pro-warlike, corporate party with two heads, wearing different makeup when it comes to playing toady for Big Business. These are the giant multinationals who have no allegiance to our country or to communities like Flint except to control, deplete or abandon them. It is not that your views have changed, with an exception or two. It is that your circles have changed. Too much Clinton, not enough Camejo.
Your old friends remain committed to blazing paths for a just society and world. As they helped you years ago, they can help you now. They are also trim and take care of themselves. Girth they avoid. The more you let them see you, the less they will see of you. That could be their greatest gift to Moore the Second?the gift of health. What say you?
Best wishes,
Ralph Nader"
Once upon a time, there was Michael Moore the First. He never forgot his friends. Come time for the Washington, DC premiere of Bowling for Columbine a while back, he invited his old buddies in Washington?gave them good seats and spent the rest of the evening with them. During his other movie's premiere, he affectionately recognized how much those old friends helped him and supported him after he was mistreated and let go by Mother Jones. He was generous with his words and time.
Now there is Michael Moore the Second. Last night he hosted the Washington, DC premiere of Fahrenheit 9/11, and who was there? The Democratic political establishment, the same people whom he took to such mocking task on the road with us in campaign rally after campaign rally in 2000. Who was not there? His old buddies! Not personally invited, not personally hung out with.
A few weeks ago, Michael, I sent you a message: "Hey, Dude, where's my Buddy?" It is attached. It has gone without reply. It simply asked you to come back to your progressive constituency and take on the two-party monopoly of our rigged election system?to challenge the pro-warlike, corporate party with two heads, wearing different makeup when it comes to playing toady for Big Business. These are the giant multinationals who have no allegiance to our country or to communities like Flint except to control, deplete or abandon them. It is not that your views have changed, with an exception or two. It is that your circles have changed. Too much Clinton, not enough Camejo.
Your old friends remain committed to blazing paths for a just society and world. As they helped you years ago, they can help you now. They are also trim and take care of themselves. Girth they avoid. The more you let them see you, the less they will see of you. That could be their greatest gift to Moore the Second?the gift of health. What say you?
Best wishes,
Ralph Nader"
