That series record made me wonder -- these teams must have played a bunch a long, long time ago, because State was considerably better than VPI for decades until Beamer took over. Then I came across this....
Hope you don't mind a little history:
____________________
It's 'Farmers' vs. VPI again
BY AL FEATHERSTON : The Herald-Sun
afeatherston@heraldsun.com
Sep 23, 2004 : 11:32 pm ET
RALEIGH -- An aging railroad poster hanging in the lobby of the Murphy Center at Carter-Finley Stadium provides evidence that the N.C. State-Virginia Tech football game once was a significant sporting event.
The poster touts the Thanksgiving Day matchup in Norfolk between A&M and VPI as the "Biggest Foot Ball game ever played in the south for the championship of the south and middle west."
A&M is, of course, North Carolina A&M -- the name N.C. State University was known by in the days before World War I. The letters VPI stands for Virginia Polytechnic Institute -- the name Virginia A&M adopted in 1896. It's still the school's official name (actually it's been Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University since 1950), although school officials prefer Virginia Tech.
The poster was printed to sell railroad tickets to Raleigh residents hoping to travel to Norfolk for the holiday game. Only one problem? There's no date on the poster and efforts to nail down the date of the "Biggest Foot Ball game ever played in the south" remain maddeningly inconclusive.
The record books show that A&M and VPI met Thanksgiving Day in Norfolk every year between 1908 and 1911, when a dispute about the eligibility of three of the "Farmers" -- as the A&M players were called -- temporarily halted the series.
But "championships" were rather casual affairs in those preconference days, and it's not clear which of the four Thanksgiving matchups was so celebrated.
Frank Weedon, N.C. State's senior associate athletics director emeritas, said he believes the poster was printed to promote the 1910 A&M-VPI clash. The Farmers compiled a 3-0-2 record headed into the game, and after beating 6-1 VPI by a 5-3 score, claimed the "South Atlantic Football championship."
The 1910 season is significant because it was the first played under the new rules that outlawed the flying wedge. Forward passes were legal, but the scoring system still was evolving -- touchdowns were worth five points with a one-point extra point; field goals were worth three points.
Weedon quoted from the 1911 Agromack (the school's yearbook) about the 1910 A&M team, coached by Eddie Green: "They brought home from Norfolk the South Atlantic Championship in football, won on Thanksgiving Day. There has never been a football team like this at A&M before. There have been few like it anywhere."
To justify that statement, the unknown author offers a piece of logic that will be familiar to modern fans. He points out that Harvard tied Yale and Yale defeated Princeton. But Yale was beaten by "West Point," which in turn lost to the Naval Academy.
"Navy was unable to score a touchdown versus VPI [winning 3-0], so that proves that A&M was the equal of any team in America."
Weedon points out that the poster prominently features "Half-back" Harry Hartsell, who was the captain of the 1910 team and later a Wolfpack coach. It also features tackle Harry Mott. The poster, originally donated to N.C. State by the Mott family, came with a small plaque that celebrated the 1910 championship and the 5-3 victory over VPI.
There is one problem: The same plaque notes that Mott was a 1910 graduate of A&M ... and hence would not have played in the fall of 1910. The poster also features "Quarter-back" S.F. Stevens, who was a senior in 1908 and the captain of that year's A&M team. Mott would have also played on the 1908 team.
Could the 1908 A&M vs. VPI game be the "Biggest Foot Ball game ever played in the south?"
North Carolina A&M was 5-1 heading to Norfolk after a fumble-plagued 6-0 loss to Virginia. VPI was a mediocre 5-3, although the three losses were respectable showings against three of the nation's most celebrated powers -- Princeton, Navy and George Washington.
A crowd of more the 12,000 fans showed up at Norfolk's Lafayette Park to see the Thanksgiving Day battle. VPI scored a first-half touchdown, taking a 5-0 lead after missing the extra point.
According to Doug Herakovitch's account in the history "Touchdown Wolfpack," Stevens rallied the Farmers. Described as "the son of lightning," the 5-9, 160-pound Norfolk native returned the second-half kickoff 40 yards, and a few moments later tossed a 13-yard touchdown pass to "Dutchy" Seifert for the tying touchdown. Frank Thompson kicked the extra point that gave A&M a 6-5 victory.
There is a brief account of the Farmers' victory on the front page of the Nov. 28 edition of the Durham Morning Herald. It notes that the A&M-VPI game was one of three big holiday contests, along with North Carolina's annual game with Virginia in Richmond and Durham High School's clash with Greensboro High for the state prep title.
Virginia crushed heavily favored UNC 31-0 and Greensboro upset Durham 4-0.
"The story of it all is that everybody wanted Durham and Chapel Hill to win and nobody cared much if the A&M was beaten," the anonymous Herald writer related. "But that team has snatched all the football glory that belongs in the state from the other teams and is believed by experts to be the strongest aggregation in the Southern states."
So was the 1908 A&M-VPI game the one in question?
Maybe ... but there is a slight problem. While the heroic Stevens was the captain of the 1908 A&M team, N.C. State's records don't have Hartsell -- featured so prominently on the poster -- listed as a letter winner in 1908. And when did J. L. Dunn and A.L. Keasler -- also featured on the poster but not included in the school's lettermen list -- play for A&M?
So the exact details of the poster and the "Biggest Foot Ball game ever played in the south" remain murky. But the search emphasizes how important the series, which resumes Saturday in Blacksburg, Va., once was in southern football.
