Tonight's debate

[dawgball]

One of the most overused cliches in sports is the "Must-win game". But I feel tonight's debate is a must-win for Bush. If he does not improve over his last performance, I think the election will continually spiral towards the Democratic side. I, personally, will not like to see this because it will have ill effects on me as a business owner and tax payer.

I believe the Democrat backers can start a small preemptive celebration if Kerry performs again like he did two weeks ago.

If you are a Republican backer, you really need Bush to step it up tonight.

 

[pirate fan]

Being a small business owner myself, I am dreading things if Kerry gets elected. It will hurt the small business owner, let alone our foreign policy. This is an arena Bush can and should do better in. Really hoping for the best! :clap: Come on Bush, kick some ass! :clap:

 

[Junk Man]

It's too bad that the only ones they'll let on the stage are Bush and Kerry.

 

[RAYMOND]

agree . bush need to win tonight ,

 

[Clem D]

Pirate fan please elaborate how Kerry could possibly hurt our foreign policy when it is the worst it has ever been?

 

[pirate fan]

My concern is he has not been specific enough yet. Say he is elected, how will he build a coalition and with his not wanting to be there show weakness? How will others currently in the coalition feel, will they start backing out feeling he is not commited to the war effort already voting no on the 87 billion funding project. How will he penalize those businesses that outsource jobs? Will this cause other countries to penalize businesses that outsource to the US? What if the penalties are to severe, will the company just relocate to a different country with a lower tax rate. Trade tariffs or additional tax on imports? Higher taxes could mean a slowing down of our economy, thus interest rates would have to come down again to spur investment (borrowing) but foreign dollars would leave due to higher returns available elsewhere. With no one wanting to invest in the US, the strenghth of the dollar drops so it takes more of them to buy the same thing overseas, like raw materials to build and manufacture. This could lead to inflation as companies have to spend more to buy commodities which is passed on to the consumer. This could go on and on. Not saying our foreign policy is the best it has ever been but as we become more of a global economy, foreign policy isn't just wars anymore. And the usual arguements in here, Kerry just hasn't shown me anything yet that he could deal with difficult situations like N. Korea, Russia, China, etc. Lot of timebombs out there in the world.

 

[djv]

Dont worry small business men. Kerry wants to follow a plan close to what Clinton did for small buisness. Hell they poped up ever wear and old ones grew bigger. I dont think you need to worry.
Small business provided almost 13 million new jobs under Clinton and his tax breaks and incentives for small business. Bush so far can come up with about 1 million. And dam little growth.

 

[pirate fan]

djv, Bush inherited a recession which we are just coming out of, there is a hugh difference here. The economy is cyclical and right now is showing promise, why risk it? He has also overcome the 9/11 tragedy which really hurt the economy. I see hope and promise ahead, my business is doing great this year, double digit growth. Tax hikes can and most likely slow the recovery right down.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

forget it Pirate fan these liberals to this day deny that fact that Bush inherrited a recession and they deny that 9/11 had any impact on the economy under Bush. It's called denial.

and CLEM D, I will be glad to comment Kerry's foreign policy ----------------- IT's PUTRID and contradictive to his own plan!!!!

He wants to go to Europe and convince all those nations to fight in a war that is "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time".....how in the name of shit will he do this?????????
NOBODY WILL ANSWER THIS!! Not even Kerry!

and about Kerry's coalition---go read my thread about the coalition he wants to build...all those countries were secretly helping Iraq evade the sanctions!!!!!
Would you like to comment on that?

 

[Kdogg21]

what is the over/under on how many times 'Iraq', 'WMD's, 'Osama', 'I have a plan...', and 'Saddam' will be said???

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

Well what do you want them to talk about?

 

[Clem D]

I hope they get a stand in for Bush so he doesn't embarrass our country again by is lack of ability to think on the spot and form complete sentences.

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

I agree, thank god he didn't get elected for his "speaking abilities" lol.
However, I think I'd rather have him as my president than some guy who sounds like he's trying to sell you a car.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Dont worry small business men. Kerry wants to follow a plan close to what Clinton did for small buisness. Hell they poped up ever wear and old ones grew bigger. I dont think you need to worry.
Small business provided almost 13 million new jobs under Clinton and his tax breaks and incentives for small business. Bush so far can come up with about 1 million. And dam little growth"

Good try DJV but most small business jobs that were lost were result of dot com bust.--and maybe you could print these tax breaks and incentives as I can't find any.

Your anolgy is quite in same mode as Kerry's giving partial facts--- eg He has ranted about the top earners getting 87 million tax break but fails to mention they pay 83% of all are taxes.

If a guy pays $5,000 in taxes and one pays $50,000 and each gets 10% break($500 and $5,000) the 2nd is still paying 10 times more in taxes.--but liberals interpretation is (by Kerry's anology) the 2nd guy got ten times the refund.

Helen Keller can see the spin--I just hope the voters can as Bush has failed to mention this distortion of facts and has had 2 occasions so far----
but my favorite spin was Kerry saying they were for tort reform when their biggest contributers were personal injury attorneys.

 

[kosar]

I missed the friday debate because I was at the R.E.M/Springsteen 'Vote For Change' concert in Orlando, but it appears that Dubya should never have agreed to these debates.


POLL-Kerry Opens Three-Point Lead on Bush

By John Whitesides

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic challenger John Kerry expanded his slight lead over President Bush to three points in a tight race for the White House, according to a Reuters/Zogby poll released on Monday.

The Massachusetts senator held a 47-44 percent lead over Bush in the latest three-day tracking poll, up two points from Sunday. Bush's support dropped one point and Kerry's support rose one point in the new poll.

The close race turns up the pressure for Wednesday's final debate in Tempe, Arizona, when the White House rivals will have another chance to make their case to voters on domestic issues.

The poll found six percent of likely voters are still undecided about the race with barely more than three weeks to go until the Nov. 2 election, and 16 percent of the voters who identify themselves as independents are undecided.


Bush made small gains among young voters and Kerry picked up strength among women voters ahead of the debate -- the final chance for both candidates to speak directly to an audience of millions of voters.


"Wednesday's debate is vital because many sub-groups remain close and because so many independents have yet to make up their minds," pollster John Zogby said.


The poll of 1,214 likely voters was taken Friday through Sunday and has a margin of error of plus or minus 2.9 percentage points. The rolling poll will continue through Nov. 1 -- the day before the election.


The last two days of polling came after Bush and Kerry battered each other over Iraq, jobs and taxes during a debate on Friday. The economy and Iraq are consistently listed as the top issues in the race.


A tracking poll combines the results of three consecutive nights of polling, then drops the first night's results each time a new night is added. It allows pollsters to record shifts in voter sentiment as they happen.


The poll found 48 percent of voters thought the United States was headed in the wrong direction and 45 percent thought it was headed in the right direction.

 

[dawgball]

Well, as far as I can see, Bush did slightly better than the last go-around, but he still does not know how to debate. Lucky for Republicans, Kerry is not much better. He speaks better, but he does not know how to go for the kill when it is there (ans it was several times Friday night).

Kerry and Edwards have said they have plans for everything. Well, plans don't get things done. We had a plan when we started our business, but we have made several changes in that plan to survive and flourish. Also, how are they going to pay for all of these plans.

I really do plea with people not to vote for Kerry because this country will be much worse off if he and Edwards are elected.

djv--you, once again, prove that you are a ****ing idiot! Most of the jobs created were the ones that were lost when our economy flopped because it was a completely false market. I'm not balming Clinton for it, but your dumb, senile ass gives him credit for all of the good but none of the blame.

As far as this thread goes, I think the Democrats took another step closer to getting elected. I guess we will be getting what the Democrats want for the next four years. If things end up REALLY being better, then I will be the first to admit it. But I will also point out if things are FALSELY better.

 

[kosar]

djv--you, once again, prove that you are a ****ing idiot! Most of the jobs created were the ones that were lost when our economy flopped because it was a completely false market. I'm not balming Clinton for it, but your dumb, senile ass gives him credit for all of the good but none of the blame.

Dayammmn. lol

As far as this thread goes, I think the Democrats took another step closer to getting elected. I guess we will be getting what the Democrats want for the next four years. If things end up REALLY being better, then I will be the first to admit it. But I will also point out if things are FALSELY better.

Hopefully you'll allow them a little leeway, as they will be spending the better part of their term trying to clean up all of the mistakes that this admin made. The way that I look at it is that they can't mess things up any worse. Might as well give them a shot and look at things again in 2008.

I think it's interesting when people speculate that Kerry will be a horrible president while seemingly ignoring Bush's horrible 4 years. There is only one known quantity, and it ain't pretty.

 

[djv]

Amen Kosar time for a change. Anybody. Nader. Pat even good old Ross. We need some new thinking.
Dawg, as for Clinton he did very well. Did I like him a lot, NO. Did Greenspan help slow up his big bang. You bet. They should have fired Greenspan by now for what he did end of 99 and 2000. Dum ass raised rates when he should have went other way. But after 9/11 what other excuse Does Bush have. He's had low interest rates from Greenspan lowest in 60 years. We had all of 2003 and 2004 to grow jobs. Where are they. Just keeping even does not to the job. We need 225000 to 250000 a month. 100000 average last 13 months dont cut it. All that tax cut money for trickle down and it stopped some where. Anyone who thinks he did everything right. As Bush does. Well it should scare the chit out of you.

 

[dawgball]

I certainly won't judge Kerry by his first 90 days because that would be unfair. There is definitely a time of leeway in my eyes due to Congress getting used to a new man and all.

I, personally, don't feel Bush has done a bad job. I am in a middle tax bracket and I have received cuts the last two years. I feel safer with him at the helm than someone who is more interested in doing what the polls say is the correct choice. I think our job market is coming around. Our country is going to have to get used to the fact the manufcturing jobs are not the future. We have to be innovative enough to cut our piece of the global economy pie out early. Manufacturing is not the key. We will never again compete against other countries in this realm.

Bush had a fast track to the Republican nomination due to family ties (excuse for our party as who is serving), but I don't see how Dems voted Kerry as the best competition. You are better off having him as the headliner than Edwards, though. That guy is just slimy.

I want to know what specifically Kerry has said that makes you think he is capable. I don't want to hear that he has a plan or that Bush has not done things right. If you are comfortable voting for Kerry, what are the factors that make it so? If it is simply a vote against Bush, that is very dangerous. Just curious.

djv--so now Greenspan is the reason for the bubble burst?

 

[djv]

Well he didn't help things when he could of. By the time he woke up he cost us one year. Then 9/11 cost us another. But we should been hauling butts last two years. We keep coming up short and deficit get's bigger. Sooner or later we pay that off with interest rates and higher cost. There goes the tax cut. Those on the high end dont bother them. But many stuck in the rat race with two working for a total of 50/60 grand get buried soone or later. We need jobs. We need jobs that give folks health care. Bush just has other priorties.