This debate sucks

[dr. freeze]

Terrible Economic times like this? Have you read the paper? LOOK IN THE JOBS OPPORTUNITIES SECTION

It is FILLED with jobs......

Why do you think the GOVERNMENT should have to provide a job for everone?

That is NOT its role. Its role is to stay OUT of the economy except when it becomes necessary to bust trusts..


Why ANY American would think that he or she must rely on the government for a job is an outrage. What ever happened to self-reliance????

Why oh why does one think that his job must be "protected" because someone somewhere can do it better/faster? Why can't one cowboy up and adapt and be a real American?

Do you think we live in a place where technology should be stopped so that the guy who was trained in 1980 can work in 1980?

Do you think we should just limit our markets to our own country?

Do you not realize that when these low skill jobs are moved elsewhere, that new markets for the American dollar are opened creating a LARGER demand for BETTER JOBS particularly in the service industry?

Are you unable to comprehend that when companies save money by exporting jobs that
1. New management positions are created.
2. The middle class investor wins
3. The business entrepreneur makes MORE MONEY and SPEND MORE MONEY ON WORKERS, CHARITY, INVESTMENTS, and YES....TAXES!!!
4. More money is in circulation thus and again the demand for MORE SERVICE INDUSTRY JOBS ARE CREATED.

It is unbelievable how you liberals can not comprehend simple economic principles.

You want price fixing, wage setting, and more government controls and think that this will lead to one big Utopian workplace.

You fail to realize what ENTERPRISE, MARKET FORCES, COMPETITION, and INCENTIVE mean with regards to PRODUCTIVITY.

Its amazing how some people fail to understand not only economics but also HISTORY and in doing so are leading this country to a place where everyone is UNPRODUCTIVE and sooner or later the cupboards become bare and then your dream is realized:

We will all plead to the governmnet for help.

 

[Master Capper]

Okay I am looking at todays Cleveland Plain Dealer and yes there are a ton of jobs but taking a close look at these jobs the vast majority are service positions and the ones that list a wage are all around $7.50 a hour. So lets say that a person works forty hours a week at this job they would make in a years time $15,600 which if they are single puts them above the poverty line but if they have a family makes them border line poverty. Yes we both know that if this person had received more education they would not be in the position that they are having to work a service job but in reality just how many Americans have received secondary education and have a degree to show for it? I believe that the average is around 18% of all Americans! Now I move to the sales jobs, the vast majority of these ads are for sales positions with auto dealers on a commission basis. Onto the management area where around 55% are for positions with either same day loan companies or social services, so maybe in your part of the country their are plenty of nice jobs but judging from the Plain Dealer I would have to say Ohio has little opportunity. No one is calling for price fixing or any of your other myopic right wing talking points, as your just like your hero GW evading all questions about just what his plans are and going to the unamerican card of anyone whom dares question where this country is going. I didn't think you would be able to defend Bush's lack of answers last night and judging from your comments I appear to be right! I can see both positions on these issues and numbers can be distorted and twisted to fit either one of our needs but we also have a moral obligation to take care of the less fortunate people in our society and you would thing a man such as Bush would have a yearning to help to the less fortunate since he touts that he is a compassionate conservative. The whole radical right wing is just as goofy as the left wing, the right wing opposes abortion as they claim every child has a right to life, but then this children come into the world with this right to life and they are denied the health care that they need to survive because the right wing opposes giving them health care other than poorly managed clinics that most of us would cringe at using. Then these children are forced to attend schools that are completely inept at teaching the basic skills of reading, writing and math (over 40% of the children graduating from Akron public schools do not have the reading skills of a 4th grader)! These right to life children are then exposed to the labor force where they struggle due to lack of skills and eventually become a burden on society and the cycle repeats itself generation after generation with no one proposing a way to remedy this situation. Surely, if these children have a right to be Born don't we have a social responsibility to level the playing field for them as we al lknow that the vast amount of abortions are performed for the lower income class yet we oppose abortions but offer no solution's to breaking the cycle.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Freeze,

Your economic worldview is sooooo 1986

Are you unable to comprehend that when companies save money by exporting jobs that
1. New management positions are created.

True. In foreign countries
2. The middle class investor wins.

There are middle class investors?
3. The business entrepreneur makes MORE MONEY and SPEND MORE MONEY ON WORKERS , CHARITY, INVESTMENTS, and YES....TAXES!!!

Makes more money, invests in more profitable foreign markets, spends less due to foreign workers, and spends more on taxes IN FOREIGN JURISDICTIONS

4. More money is in circulation thus and again the demand for MORE SERVICE INDUSTRY JOBS ARE CREATED.

Monetary Theory Economics??? How many times does this need to be disproved in the real world before it just goes away. More money circulation creates more jobs?

 

[THE KOD]

The only thing I remember about the debate is Kerry talking about the lesbian daughter of VP Chaney.

Debates are always boring.

...........................................................

Six

If I could make the rules for the debate I would do this.

No moderator.

Just let the two candidates talk to each other for 90 minutes.

Then we would learn what they really believed.

I would pay to see that debate.

 

[dr. freeze]

MC no doubt we have a responsibiltiy towards the poor....

but conservatives want this done from a charitable front......not from the government front.....

you insinuate that conservatives do not care...but in reality they do...you just do not understand the philosophy

 

[Master Capper]

Please explain the philosphy as I have seen none and if there was one presented it's failing, dont you agree? What is being done to break this cycle and please do not tell me No Child Left Behind as we both know this is a failure.

 

[dr. freeze]

because No Child Left Behind is just one more liberal program...

you fail to make the distinction between Bush and Conservative...they are not inclusive many times....in fact most of the time.....with Kerry its none of the times....

Conservatives want strings attached to money that is given away.....

if a family needs money for their children, the cable television must go as well as a lot of other amenities....if that father has alcoholism, he must be getting treatment if he wants money..if that mother has a gambling problem, she must be getting treated to receive money...

i could go on and on, but charities are able to use this kind of accountability and the government is far from it......

the current government welfare state creates more problems than it solves..and for that anyone compassionate would eliminate it.....

however anyone who says that would be crucified by the media and spinmasters....

sad state our country is in....we are becoming /have become total dependents after descending from folks who would never want a cent from the government for anything.

 

[Master Capper]

Dr. Freeze,

I really think our viewpoints are pretty similiar as I agree that the current welfare system has done very little to break the cycle of generations relying on the system, but we differ in the belief that these people should not receive funds. Why would you punish a child who has asolutely no control of a parent whom is an alcoholic or a degenerate gambler?

 

[dr. freeze]

aren't you punishing the child more if you do nothing about the father's alcoholism?

 

[CHARLESMANSON]

I LOVE WR referred to the Americans who attended the debate and held up signs as......
LOSERS.......hmmmm
You do know that those were students right I LOVE WR??
Obviously by the rediculous, outlandishly immiture shit that comes out of your mouth your parents gave you absolutely no chance at ever becoming a student. Maybe that's why you're jealous. Your comments in Madjacks are probably the worst of all and by far the least supported. Sexiest capper online?? :142lmao:
I thank god he doesn't live in our country.

Anyways...........Why are all of the political statements posted in this thread by liberals just whining and bitching and moaning and complaining ???...for months
My god don't you idiots ever get depressed?? My god you obsess on crying about negative shit every day. Hey Raymond may pound a lot of beers but for christs sake at least he is ALWAYS positive and speaks POSITIVE about our country. No liberals ever do that.

 

[MrChristo]

Freeze: I'm kinda happy you're going to be a doctor (Elated that I live 8000 miles away mind you!!), because as an economist, you'd be after welfare yourself!

Self-reliance?....COWBOY UP???

Bobby is essentially correct.

What happens when jobs are 'exported'?

Yes. there are (at least here in Oz) so-called "mum and dad" (middle income) investors. Yes, they do benefit from higher profits...But to what degree??
Come the end of the financial year when they get their dividend cheque and summary of their stock, how much do you expect it to effect their bottom line whether a company makes $100 mil or $150 mil?? The difference to the 'average' investor is minimal at best.

Where does the extra profit go?....BIG stake holders. The board. Upper management....All on 7 figure sums already.
Do you think they spend their $$ at the local hardware store? Increase circulation in local areas??
Of course not.
Charity??...mmm, maybe. but, again I'd be surprised if increased profit margins would equate to more charity donations. I mean, it's not like these guys give away a % of earnings (some might I guess!!)...I'm sure if they were inclined to be charitable in the first place, their $$ given away each year would be roughly the same, no matter what their earnings were.

Taxes?? Again, maybe...But by now we've overshot the point....Actually, it goes directly against your own point, in which you said to scrap welfare and let people save their own money!!! Pretty tough to save $$ if your job has just been made redundant!

"Sorry Frank. We're shutting down the plant, and you're losing your job. But it's ok. Here is $500 worth of shares...They're about to leap up 5%!!.....See you at the Country Club!"