Pat Buchanan article on this mess in Iraq

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
October 25, 2004 issue


How Do We Get Out?

by Pat Buchanan


?Today, we lack metrics to know if we are winning or losing,? wrote Rumsfeld a year ago. ?Is our current situation such that ?the harder we work, the behinder we get??? We now have metrics to work with. A year ago, Gen. John Abizaid estimated there were 5,000 enemy fighters. After capturing and killing thousands, officials now estimate there are 20,000 enemy. A year ago, there were two dozen attacks every day on coalition forces. According to Kroll Security International, the number is now 70 a day. A year ago, U.S. troops had the run of the country and the press could travel almost anywhere. Now there are ?no-go? zones in the Sunni Triangle, and Sadr City is a scene of daily carnage. Outside the Kurdish north, few provinces are free of daily attacks.

With kidnappings and beheadings of humanitarian workers and foreign labor, many have fled the country. The press is now largely confined to the Green Zone, which has itself been subject to mortar and car-bomb attacks. American dead and wounded in July and August were higher than in the invasion months of March and April 2003.

Eighteen months after we occupied Germany, the nation was de-Nazified and pacified. Eighteen months after we occupied Iraq, Islamic fundamentalism is on the rise and, as Colin Powell now concedes, ?We are fighting an intense insurgency [and] .... it?s getting worse.?

From 1963 to 1973, when we left Vietnam, Saigon was a safe city except during the three-week Tet Offensive of 1968. But Iraq?s capital is becoming almost uninhabitable for Westerners.

Spain, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, the Philippines, and New Zealand have all pulled out. Ukraine and Poland are debating troop withdrawals. Seventy percent of Brits tells pollsters they want Tony Blair to remove British forces, the second largest foreign contingent.

Support for Bush?s decision to invade was overwhelming a year ago. Today, a majority of Americans believe the cost of ridding Iraq of Saddam was too high. Kerry now says Bush made a mistake going in and, if he wins, we will be out in four years. But, Senator, how do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?

Robert Novak cites Bush insiders as saying we may have to move to a rapid exit in 2005. Even Rumsfeld is saying we need not pacify Iraq before drawing down U.S. forces. But why then are we building those permanent bases?

On the credit side, scores of thousands of Iraqi police and soldiers have been trained. While some joined the rebels or refused to fight in Fallujah in April, in Najaf many fought to administer a bloody defeat on Sheik Moqtada al-Sadr?s forces, though al-Sadr was allowed to evade capture or killing in a deal negotiated under the auspices of the Ayatollah al-Sistani.

At the root of the insurgency?the goal of every enemy fighter?is a determination to drive America out. Our presence, our use of tanks, Bradleys, gunships and fighter-bombers, causing inevitable civilian casualties, is recruiting more enemy than we are killing.

That the number of enemy and incidence of attacks have multiplied fourfold in a year forces us to one conclusion: we are losing this war. For the guerrilla wins if he does not lose, and the Iraqi insurgents are not losing.

How do we win this war? How do we end it? How do we get out without leaving an Iraq that is a far graver terror threat than any Saddam Hussein ever presented?

The Bush strategy appears to be this. Build up Iraqi forces to lead the assault on enemy sanctuaries in the Sunni Triangle, backed by U.S. forces and firepower. Attack and occupy these cities before January. Hold elections that will, by linking slates of candidates, produce an assembly that will maintain the Allawi government in power. Have the United States then give a date for withdrawal of American forces and begin the pullout of troops?to separate the insurgency from Islamists and foreign fighters whose end goal is an Islamist regime. Continue to build up and train the Iraqi army to where it is so large, powerful, and well equipped it can crush any rebellion. Cede maximum autonomy to Kurds and Shi?ites. And head down the road to Kuwait.

But as the success or failure of the Bush presidency hangs on the outcome in Iraq, it is hard to believe Bush will not leave behind sufficient forces to prevent the loss of Iraq before brother Jeb runs in the primaries of 2008. Iraq is thus likely not only to be the issue in this election but the next as well.
 

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
Not everyone wants us out of Iraq Kosar. Not everyone thinks the way you pussy liberals do. You guys are so naive it isn't even funny.

I think it would be a great victory for the terrorists if we packed up and went home in defeat. They would laugh at us and then come fight us over here on American soil. I want my country to stay on the offensive, not retreat like a bunch of pussies.

Most Americans agree with me....if you don't believe me just wait til the election results come out. :clap:
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
CHARLESMANSON said:
Not everyone wants us out of Iraq Kosar. Not everyone thinks the way you pussy liberals do. You guys are so naive it isn't even funny.

I never thought of Pat Buchanan as a liberal, but whatever.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
CHARLESMANSON said:
Still waiting to hear your take on how Democcrats have harmed Iran more than Republicans. Why won't you answer?

I never said that. Iran thinks that and that's all that matters.
 

redsfann

ale connoisseur
Forum Member
Aug 3, 1999
9,195
365
83
60
Somewhere in Corn Country
Nice handle there, tough guy. Charles Manson? I assume he's a fascist just like you, so the handle fits....

Wow, tough guy, its so hard to sit behind a keyboard and call people names, isn't it? I could do it, but I'm not going to.

Anytime you want to come by and knock on this pussy's front door and call me that to my face, let me know, I'd be glad to send your remains back to the hyena's that shat you out.
 

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
oh no, the resident liberals are ganging up on me!!!!
What will I do???!!! :scared


Kosar, so you still can't tell us how the democrats have done more damage to Iran then the republicans have? cool, I didn't think so. Way to back up your shit.
BTW yeah I can't read. Real brilliant insults you guys come up with. Oh yeah I'm a teenage asswipe too. lol

Redfag you critisized me for name calling but you called me a name in the same post. :clap: Good one there buddy! :142lmao:
 

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
btw Redsfan, this is an internet chatroom message board. You have to take it to the level of challenging me to a fight at your house? lol...nice life
 

spibble spab

NEOCON
Forum Member
Apr 16, 2004
657
0
0
47
Concord, Michigan
kosar said:
I never said that. Iran thinks that and that's all that matters.

you know what else Iran thinks?
you would actually ACT on what they think right?

they think and believe in preemptive strikes.
whats going on with your liberal UN. fine job theyre doing Let me ask you this. What stance should we take towards Iran. would you impose economic sanctions?? hmmmm :shrug:
 

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
Why even bother asking him? What does it matter? Kosar wants to listen to terrorists and agree with and use thier quotes to state his arguments. Brilliant mind. lol
 
Last edited:

spibble spab

NEOCON
Forum Member
Apr 16, 2004
657
0
0
47
Concord, Michigan
redsfann said:
Wow, tough guy, its so hard to sit behind a keyboard and call people names, isn't it? I could do it, but I'm not going to.

Anytime you want to come by and knock on this pussy's front door and call me that to my face, let me know, I'd be glad to send your remains back to the hyena's that shat you out.

:lol2 all that tough guy talk from an "Ale Connoisseur" :lol2

shut up ya homo! :thefinger
 

CHARLESMANSON

Hated
Forum Member
Jan 7, 2004
2,651
15
0
90
CORCORAN, CA
yeah Redsfag your entire post contradicted yourself. You say you wont call me names but instead you will give me a death threat?
I'm sorry bro but you are a complete pussy. (who is also behind the safety of your keyboard) :)
 

redsfann

ale connoisseur
Forum Member
Aug 3, 1999
9,195
365
83
60
Somewhere in Corn Country
redsfag?
homo?

My, my, you girlies are original. And someone by the name of 'spibble spab' is giving me shiite because I admit to being choosy in what type of beer I drink?

'Spibble spab'? Whats that, code for I molest sheep?
HAHAHAHAHHAHA. Nice handle, loser. The above offer is good for you to, spittle spooter, er, dribble moozer, er, whatever.....

Matt--

Yeah, I missed this section so much I thought I'd drop by and say hey. Can't let you and BBC have all the fun, now can I?
So, tell me, do all these little cockroaches go back under the stove after their daddy bush gets his ass handed to him on Tuesday?
Nahh... but it sure will be fun to watch 'em whine for the next 4 years....
 

spibble spab

NEOCON
Forum Member
Apr 16, 2004
657
0
0
47
Concord, Michigan
redsfann said:
redsfag?
homo?

My, my, you girlies are original. And someone by the name of 'spibble spab' is giving me shiite because I admit to being choosy in what type of beer I drink?

funny you chose the word "admit" Freud was right?

as far as you saying the same thing applies to me..

are you threatening me?

are you challenge me to a fight?

i just want to be clear on this before we go further with this. thanks :yawn:
 

Nosigar

53%
Forum Member
Jul 5, 2000
2,487
9
0
Florida
Bernie, resorting to Pat Buchanan now? :142lmao:

Man, I bet that had to be tough. Really.

Though have seen Pat lately on (gulp!) MSNBC, guess he's filling on for Scarborough or somebody. Quite the moderate moderator, I should say. ;)

But honestly, if the insurgents were for Iraqi freedom by Iraqi groups, I'd say just get the hell out and let them self-destruct. But the insurgency is not for freedom of any group or people, but for control over a potentially huge terrorist - fundamentalist platform by means of controlling all or part of a country. Anybody who just splits at this point has to be extremely short-sighted. And the opposition's plans have no clarity except evasiveness. If the invasion of Iraq were ever (historically) to be considered a blunder, pulling out before obtaining a degree of control over insurgency would definitely be suicide.
 

redsfann

ale connoisseur
Forum Member
Aug 3, 1999
9,195
365
83
60
Somewhere in Corn Country
What if I am "calling you out?"
Are you gonna tell your mommy that your scared? What kind of question is that, anyway?
Can you not read?
Er, don't answer that one, we already no the answer...:D
get it? 'no' instead of 'know'? Just trying to help...

Glad you liked "dribble moozer." It was that or "dropple gawker." the 1st one just sounded better.....lol
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top