Iran terrorism

[smurphy]

Brilliant--if all is fair in love and war-- than I can assume you have no prob with us leveling the middle east to a parking lot--would be more cost efficient anf think of the kill ratio.

---and did we fight the British fairly--how does even the left come up with this comparison??????--because we shot from behind trees--that equates to targeting civilians and beheading same??
I think your having post election anxiety

1) Yes - Nuking is and would be legitimate. We'd get more enemies, but why do we have the nukes? Purely for deterrance? If we used nukes, the world would bitch in a similar manner to the way we are currently bitching about homocide bombers and de-capitators. I think nuking wouldn't be good strategy, but it's a legitimate weapon and it came down to it, I'm sure we have the ability to use them.

2) Who is the left, me? What's wrong with that comparison? In a tactical guerrila warfare sense, there's nothing wrong with that comparison. I'm just showing that in the end, methods don't matter - what is anyone going to do about it? Whine? From a fighting standpoint, use whatever is at your disposal and use any methods that give you an advantage. There might be side effects regarding allies, global sentiment, etc - but we should know that's not a concern of the insurgents.

3) I haven't thought about the election in weeks. Move on.

 

[smurphy]

I'm on the LEFT, but I'm saying we need to double the troops in order to win. Come on Dogs - get past the partisan rhetoric. Just cuz I think Bush sucks and wanted just about anyone in office except him, doesn't make me Left.

 

[MrChristo]

1
2) What's wrong with that comparison? In a tactical guerrila warfare sense, there's nothing wrong with that comparison. I'm just showing that in the end, methods don't matter - what is anyone going to do about it? Whine? From a fighting standpoint, use whatever is at your disposal and use any methods that give you an advantage. There might be side effects regarding allies, global sentiment, etc - but we should know that's not a concern of the insurgents.

.

I have to agree, smurphy.

I don't understand the moral high-horse here...."We fight 'clean', therefore we are right!" :shrug:

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Ok Smurph if you are adamany about it I won't label you a leftist.

 

[smurphy]

i dont personally care what you label me, but it doesn't do anything to enhance a debate. partisan rhetoric has become just plain stupid. ....still waiting for someone to define "liberal". as far as i can tell, it's just a curse word they use on fox. sometimes all you have to do is disagree with the bufoonery of bush and it makes you a liberal.

 

[Chanman]

Smurph& MrChristo- really like your posts in this thread. Its OK to disagree w/Dogs, but remember he did his time in Viet Nam, hence his outlook- IMHO. Kinda hard to reason w/fanatics.

We still have the debate over the morality of dropping the A-Bomb on Japan. I believe it saved lives because of similar suicidal attacks. Of course, some consider these ppl martyrs and disagree on use of the A-Bomb. good reading especially when the tone is civil. Thanks.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/08/07/nytimes.myers/

http://nydailynews.com/front/story/258611p-221360c.html

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20041005-022526-7903r.htm

 

[MrChristo]

Of course the other thing is that the US positively encouraged 'them' to fight this way when helping to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan


Some good links as usual, Chan.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

"Of course the other thing is that the US positively encouraged 'them' to fight this way when helping to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan"

---and who are you referring to as "them"
Were the Afgan's terrorist's when Russia invaded--did they kill their own women and children-- chop off heads of unarmed civilians?

The story of Afgan throughout history is quite an interesting story in itself. Despite being underdog they always prevailed.I would say they were some of the greatest warriors in the past century---and to compare them even remotely to terrorist that scatter like roaches and any hint of confrontation is HUGHLY insulting to them
---and that along with trying to defend people who target civilians,women aqnd children including there own because they don't shoot back could only be classified as more Liberal Logic!

 

[smurphy]

I don't think one person on this board is defending terrorists or insurgents. Some of us are just trying to get past the all the whining about the "cowardly" manner in which they fight. It shouldn't be surprising or or astonishing anyone. If our leaders are surprised, then they are incompetent and should never have sent our military into this.

ENOUGH with the "Liberal" name calling. IT SERVES NO PURPOSE WHATSOEVER! Just makes you sound like a sensationalist radio talkshow host.

 

[MrChristo]

Liberal logic??

Any logic at all??????

So....One group of people are "some of the greatest warriors in the past century" by fighting guerilla style, knowing their terrain, hiding, sniping, never fighting a full on 'face-to-face' war...ie. fighting only when it is to their advantage.

Another, doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING are roaches?? That's Crazy!!!

Of course I'm not defending them, but as smurphy says, I can't believe anyone ever expected anything different!

I didn't realise you were in Vietnam, dtb, so with the greatest of respect, I'd like to ask you what you think of the Nth Vietnamese soldiers you fought against?
Technologically inferior, they used different tactics to the West and ended up on top, despite a massive disparity in losses...Sounds like an awfully similar situation to me.

 

[danmurphy jr]

Firing missles from 2500 miles is heroic? When the US was suppying the Afghans weaponry against the USSR, they were called Freedom Fighters, now they are terrorists. Go figure.

 

[smurphy]

Smurph& MrChristo- really like your posts in this thread. Its OK to disagree w/Dogs, but remember he did his time in Viet Nam, hence his outlook- IMHO.

I definitely appreciate that. As a son of a Vietnam vet who was changed forever by that war - I can appreciate it. I'd never even attempt to empathise, but in some ways at least I know.

I'm happy we can argue

 

[Chanman]

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD82304

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Cristo
"I'd like to ask you what you think of the Nth Vietnamese soldiers you fought against?
Technologically inferior, they used different tactics to the West and ended up on top, despite a massive disparity in losses...Sounds like an awfully similar situation to me"

I stated this some time back but I have no animousity against the Vietnamese. They were soilders doing what they were told. I do hold them accountable for going in villiages in the south and torturing and killing women and children.

As far as the war it was not the Vietnamese that prevailed but the fear of reprecusions from Chinese (70 miles from there border) and Russia.We could have turned the entire north into a parking lot with conventional bombs.
If there is any lesson to be learned from Viet Nam is you can't fight a war with your hands tied. One similarity might come into play however and that is how much do they want democracy.
There are some cultures that have been oppressed for so long
it is in their nature to be submissive. The Philippines is classic example as was South Viet Nam. Iraq's may be the same. If so it is matter of time.Was not the same in Afgan however--and comparisons of calling them freedom fighters one day and terrorist the next don't float. We are still with and backing the freedoms fighters and they have their freedom and democracy and the terrorist are still trying. If you have doubts about us not patronizing these same freedom fighters all along consider that Europe and Russia could not prevail in Afgan in decades of war and it took us 15 days. Either our forces are unbelievably good or Afgan's in general wanted our help and supported our efforts.

 

[Chanman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4072887.stm

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

---and another reason wars are difficult to win is you have one side where beheadings and atrocities are condoned but you have these liberal orgs like ACLU screaming that we hit someone in face-deprived them of sleep ect---they need to turn these special forces people loose on aclu as I see them and liberal media aiding and abetting terrorist equally as bad if not worse than terrorist themselves.
---a little from the aclu----
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../ap/20041208/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/prisoner_abuse

---and by the way can you quess what big headlines are today in the terrorist media---
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/3E1AE5A7-647F-4AC1-B1E6-39A0C624BCFB.htm

 

[smurphy]

---and another reason wars are difficult to win is you have one side where beheadings and atrocities are condoned but you have these liberal orgs like ACLU screaming that we hit someone in face-deprived them of sleep ect---they need to turn these special forces people loose on aclu as I see them and liberal media aiding and abetting terrorist equally as bad if not worse than terrorist themselves.

But we can not be surprised. If the decision-makers did not take into account what they'd be dealing with in terms of protesting groups and bias from some media sources, then they were not fit to send our troops out in the first place.

The ACLU is ridiculous. Maybe they have 1 worthwhile cause out of 10. I'll gladly admit that.

But there are plenty of more reasonable, respectable, and non-biased people that have had trouble with this war from Day 1.

Bottom-line we should have known that if we wanted to win the war AND keep our supposed image, that we'd be held to high (many times unrealistic) standards. The fact that people bitch about the scrutiny we face from critics is an example of how unprepared we were for this thing. You could have predicted this from the very beginning. Remember - we chose to invade another country. We have to deal with the critics. It's not happening to us, we made it happen.

 

[djv]

Our CIA and Pentagon now says Syria is the big problem with insurgents in Iraq. Make up your mind guys.