gardenweasel said:
try and remember that several thousand of them have been killed by our bombs and bullets as well. hence - the indecision about what is better for them. hard to see the big picture when your house and family have been destroyed.
horrific video
- Thread starter SixFive
- Start date
try and remember that several thousand of them have been killed by our bombs and bullets as well. hence - the indecision about what is better for them. hard to see the big picture when your house and family have been destroyed.
and several "hundred" thousand were killed by saddam.....
are you comparing us to them,smurph...in the midst of your liberal guilt trip?....
are you comparing the slaughter of innocents....the "purposeful" slaughter of civilians in the most heinous manner known to man ....to collateral damage done by an army that goes to great lengths...puts itself in harms way.....to avoid civilian casualties?...
i think you probably are...that`s how you think...
are you comparing us to them,smurph...in the midst of your liberal guilt trip?....
are you comparing the slaughter of innocents....the "purposeful" slaughter of civilians in the most heinous manner known to man ....to collateral damage done by an army that goes to great lengths...puts itself in harms way.....to avoid civilian casualties?...
i think you probably are...that`s how you think...
i'm saying that if my family was killed and house destroyed - then I'm not going to see the big picture of liberation or appreciate being regarded as "collateral damage".
Are you saying honestly that you care one bit for those murdered by Saddam? I DO NOT. I can't keep track of people being murdered around the globe. It's impossible to police them all.
ADMIT IT - you only site Saddam's victims for the purpose of justifying the war. There's no way you actually have some special feeling towards them. They are used as a reason, not actually cared about by this country one bit.
Are you saying honestly that you care one bit for those murdered by Saddam? I DO NOT. I can't keep track of people being murdered around the globe. It's impossible to police them all.
ADMIT IT - you only site Saddam's victims for the purpose of justifying the war. There's no way you actually have some special feeling towards them. They are used as a reason, not actually cared about by this country one bit.
This same sort of 'collateral damage' thinking was brought up by DTB one time with the notion that the people affected somehow aren't as upset because 'we didn't mean to do it'. That's silly, and as smurphy said, they don't look at it like that and neither would I.
Also very true, as i've said a dozen times, that nobody in this country gave a moments thought to the plight of the Iraqi civilian until we were told to by our government.
Also very true, as i've said a dozen times, that nobody in this country gave a moments thought to the plight of the Iraqi civilian until we were told to by our government.
In away you are correct Matt. I did not become intensely involved until the terrorist drew the line in the sand--and couldn't think of better place to fight them. It is time they learn that targeting civilians-killing there own policemen--bombing schools ect isn't going isn't going bring everyone to their knees.I am quite curious to the voter turnout to see how motivated these Iraq'i are and how we will find the real #'s of voter turnout.I can already see about a 20% descempency coming depending on whos reporting and the truth probably somewhere in the middle.
yes, it will be interesting to see the turnout numbers. I think even 40-45% would be respectable considering the danger.
On a somewhat unrelated note: I just saw saw a poll on fox which cited 45% of americans would risk their lives to vote. What a crock! We barely get that many people with no danger at all.
On a somewhat unrelated note: I just saw saw a poll on fox which cited 45% of americans would risk their lives to vote. What a crock! We barely get that many people with no danger at all.
Clint- I wouldn't watch that video for the same reason I wouldn't watch a car crash. I have seen similar decapitation vids. I appreciate the right to dissent, ( but like it or not we are committed), same as I appreciate the following:
A Letter to Sen. Ted Kennedy
I was talking to a fellow Marine that I know and politics came up. Usually we just discuss the war and tactics but we started to discuss Ted Kennedy and his flamboyant ways of calling the war a "quagmire" and basically how Senator Kennedy and many other far-left Democrats actually give political aid to the enemy. When my colleague told me that he had written Senator Ted Kennedy a letter via email on the Senators website. I asked him what it said and he told me that he had kept a copy. I asked if I could post it or some of it on by blog and he said no problem as long as I don't use his name. Well here it is.
Sir, With all Due respect-
I am sorry that you think that me and my fellow Marines are failing to win the peace in Iraq. This is not a "quagmire" or "horrible mess". You have no idea what you are talking about. Is it hard? Yes it is but it is a fight that those of us who have volunteered for believe in. It deeply offends many of us when you make those statements. You are doing nothing more but giving political aid to Al-Queda, Osama Bin Laden, and many other terrorist groups who want nothing more but to kill Americans. Do you not believe that OBL and other terrorists and Islamofacists enjoy, as well as believe it is a victory, hearing you call the war a quagmire or a mess. You might as well tell them that you believe that Al-Queda is winning which makes our fight harder and more difficult on the ground. Maybe if you would give the troops a little thanks and support, in both their mission and actions, once in awhile more of us would support you and your fellow democrats. Whatever happened to the democratic party of FDR and the party of your brother, JKF? Please sir, stop giving political aid to Al-Queda, Osama Bin Laden, and the other Islamofacist we are fighting. It only makes it harder for those of us who are fighting these monsters and not career politicians like yourself.
Respectfully Submitted
A combat Marine
http://warriorsvoice.blogspot.com/
A Letter to Sen. Ted Kennedy
I was talking to a fellow Marine that I know and politics came up. Usually we just discuss the war and tactics but we started to discuss Ted Kennedy and his flamboyant ways of calling the war a "quagmire" and basically how Senator Kennedy and many other far-left Democrats actually give political aid to the enemy. When my colleague told me that he had written Senator Ted Kennedy a letter via email on the Senators website. I asked him what it said and he told me that he had kept a copy. I asked if I could post it or some of it on by blog and he said no problem as long as I don't use his name. Well here it is.
Sir, With all Due respect-
I am sorry that you think that me and my fellow Marines are failing to win the peace in Iraq. This is not a "quagmire" or "horrible mess". You have no idea what you are talking about. Is it hard? Yes it is but it is a fight that those of us who have volunteered for believe in. It deeply offends many of us when you make those statements. You are doing nothing more but giving political aid to Al-Queda, Osama Bin Laden, and many other terrorist groups who want nothing more but to kill Americans. Do you not believe that OBL and other terrorists and Islamofacists enjoy, as well as believe it is a victory, hearing you call the war a quagmire or a mess. You might as well tell them that you believe that Al-Queda is winning which makes our fight harder and more difficult on the ground. Maybe if you would give the troops a little thanks and support, in both their mission and actions, once in awhile more of us would support you and your fellow democrats. Whatever happened to the democratic party of FDR and the party of your brother, JKF? Please sir, stop giving political aid to Al-Queda, Osama Bin Laden, and the other Islamofacist we are fighting. It only makes it harder for those of us who are fighting these monsters and not career politicians like yourself.
Respectfully Submitted
A combat Marine
http://warriorsvoice.blogspot.com/
These Sunnis are as a group harboring serial killers so if you want to allow filth to live among you knowingly and you happen to be part of collateral damage...too f*ckin bad.
These murderers would not be able to operate at the levels they are without the general collusion of the Sunni populace. I shed no tears for them. I do have great regrets for the Iraqis who are trying to erect a civilised government and are getting blown to shreds by these murderers intentionally.
US forces go to great lengths to avoid unnecessary casualties.
The question of should we even be in Iraq is a different matter. In hindsight, a better approach would have been to arm any and all insurrectionists to topple Saddam as we armed the Afghans to push out the Soviets. Let them buy their freedom with their own blood rather than ours.
The Moslems of the world need to get with the program and start fighting this medieval behavior themselves. I don't see it happening which tells me the Moslem World as a whole has extreme flaws that are not compatible with our co-existence. This I am afraid is their choice and not ours. Noone has it in for Moslems. They choose to be intolerant of others, not the other way around.
These murderers would not be able to operate at the levels they are without the general collusion of the Sunni populace. I shed no tears for them. I do have great regrets for the Iraqis who are trying to erect a civilised government and are getting blown to shreds by these murderers intentionally.
US forces go to great lengths to avoid unnecessary casualties.
The question of should we even be in Iraq is a different matter. In hindsight, a better approach would have been to arm any and all insurrectionists to topple Saddam as we armed the Afghans to push out the Soviets. Let them buy their freedom with their own blood rather than ours.
The Moslems of the world need to get with the program and start fighting this medieval behavior themselves. I don't see it happening which tells me the Moslem World as a whole has extreme flaws that are not compatible with our co-existence. This I am afraid is their choice and not ours. Noone has it in for Moslems. They choose to be intolerant of others, not the other way around.
That's fine. All I was saying was that if my family was the collateral damage, then I would probably be just as likely to side with the insurgents as the Americans. More likely - I would probably choose whichever path would keep me alive that day. A "..too f'n bad" opinion from a critic in America would mean nothing too me. It's all about survival, not the intent behind the killing.
I liked this idea back in the day. Seemed like a better strategy.
smurphy, yeah I understand what you are saying about how someone would feel if they were "collateral-ed". I just say that such things will happen in a war and though regrettable I cannot view it as an overriding consideration when the mission is critical.
Otherwise, we are hamstrung and our soldiers have to be able to protect themselves and the friendlies over there - hell, we hamstring ourselves more than we probably should anyway.
It just gets on my nerves when some media head or antiwar activist type brings up some unintentional instance and presents it as if US forces are undertaking some kind of organized intentional campaign to kill innocent people. They try to make it seem as if we are just as bad as Hitler or something. I have no problem with the fact that mistakes are made or that there are individual American soldiers that go out of bounds, but I just don't believe that there is a systemic acceptance of unnecessary brutality.
Otherwise, we are hamstrung and our soldiers have to be able to protect themselves and the friendlies over there - hell, we hamstring ourselves more than we probably should anyway.
It just gets on my nerves when some media head or antiwar activist type brings up some unintentional instance and presents it as if US forces are undertaking some kind of organized intentional campaign to kill innocent people. They try to make it seem as if we are just as bad as Hitler or something. I have no problem with the fact that mistakes are made or that there are individual American soldiers that go out of bounds, but I just don't believe that there is a systemic acceptance of unnecessary brutality.
"On a somewhat unrelated note: I just saw saw a poll on fox which cited 45% of americans would risk their lives to vote. What a crock! We barely get that many people with no danger at all."
I'm with you 100% on that one Matt. I doubt if we'd get 25% if they had to drive 100 miles let alone risk their lives.
I'm with you 100% on that one Matt. I doubt if we'd get 25% if they had to drive 100 miles let alone risk their lives.
..and I agree with you in terms of our perspective here. Collatteral damage is not supposed to make a difference in OUR strategy. Clearly, it's a reality of war. As long as we realize the effect it has on our mission. We can't dismiss it completely when our objective is to win the hearts and minds.
