It's better to be lucky than good? YOU BET!

yyz

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"It's better to be lucky, than good....."

Who hasn't heard that credo? Especially as a gambler, you hear it way too often. It actually got me to thinking that maybe it is better to be lucky than good!

If you have gambled for any length of time, you know certain guys who fit one of three profiles:

  • The Average Joe

    This is most everyone who gambles. They win some, and they lose some. Year in, and year out, they are in the group that really gets no special recognition.
    They don't deviate much from the 50/50 range, no matter how many bets they make, or how many years they play. They just flounder in mediocrity.

  • The Lucky Fukker

    This is the guy who is always right! He just can't seem to lose! He is most often a smallish bettor who plays 'here and there', because if he played too much, the vig would eat him up just like nyone else, but he plays often enough that veryone knows him.

  • The Lost Cause

    This clown is everyone's dream! Everyone here knows this guy! Some of you might be fortunate enough to know a couple of guys like this.
    He can't pick the winner of a one horse race, but stays in there swinging, just like a heavyweight with an 0-27 record.

    He is the guy at work, the club, the bar, school, etc who loves to run his mouth about "tonight's game". He doesn't have his own account or
    bookie, but loves to place his action with a friend who has an 'out'.
    Outsiders would find him annoying as hell, but the smart guys all know that he is a gold mine, and will treat him like a king.

    "Who you on tonight?"

    "Are you kidding? Old U is a lock! Only giving up 8? They will win each quarter by eight!"

    As soon as Sappy is out of earshot, all of his "friends" bust out laughing! They know, the game is in the bag........
    Far more often than not, they are right about Sappy's plays.


This is where I believe some people are "born lucky", and others are just the opposite.
I know plenty of folks will scoff at that idea, and
some will say that their hard work and dedication to the lines is what gets it done for them, but I wonder.........

We all know that if you flip a coin a million times, it is highly unlikely to be 500,000 heads, and 500,000 tails. Most trials will fall in the range of a few percentage points either way. This is completely expected, and no one thinks anything of it. Every once in a while, you will have a coin that has a very skewed total of heads or tails. These are the runs that seem to throw probability right out the window.

Now, if we said "heads" was a winning wager, while "tails" was a loss, you would have some very happy people, and some very sad. (and poor!)

I contend that the coins can just as easily represent people. Some are bound to be 'great', while others flounder well below average.
The law of large numbers seems to make this a reality. You want to believe that you will balance out the losses, but if you are one of the "bad coins", it just won't happen for you.

Of course, a coin toss is pretty static in it's ways and results. As a gambler, you can make choices that a coin toss can't. You can attempt to learn, and better your odds in your game of choice. A greater knowledge may lessen the loss percentage to some extent.
Plus, we can alter the value of each game, where as the coin toss has an equal value each and every toss.

That leads to my next point.


Most people lack money management, in a major way!



I have always been an advocate of ranking my wagers by how strong I felt they were, in accordance with the line.
If I felt that the line was way off, I risked more money. A lot of people play this way, but the other camp play the same amount every wager. Now, by subscribing to my coin flip theory, the subset of people who "rank" their plays would also have some guys who get more of their big plays wrong, and others who hit more of the big plays. With all of this in mind, I feel that the vast majority of players do not wager a static amount on each and every game.

Here is my reasoning:

I think that most sports gamblers would agree that they fall in the "average" category.
They don't win too much, but they don't really get "beat up", either. So, if we are all grouped in that pool, why are there so few "winners" when you talk about the money aspect? As a gambling
society, we don't know too many winners at this, do we? Sure.....there are a few, but we know far more people who lose money at this. The vigorish most certainly accounts for a portion of lost dollars, but it can't be held responsible for all of it. Or can it?


"VIG IS A PIG!!!!!!!"


We need to hit 54% of our wagers (based on equal play) to show a profit. If our "coin flips" involve an average discrepancy of heads and tails equal to 5% either way, that means you will fall between 45% winners, and 55% throughout your wagering life. I don't need to tell you that if you fall in 90% of that range, you are a failure! If you made it into the 10% that "made money", you still don't have much to show for it, in most cases.

In my opinion, if you bet the same amount every time, you are destined to lose......You just can't overcome the juice! So, even by "managing your money" by placing the same bet every time, you can't win. That leaves "rated" betting, or "units", or whatever you choose to call them.

Unless you are able to hit a great majority of bigger wagers, this method will put you in harm's way quicker than the straight wager will, but even hitting the big wagers will only slow your demise, not prevent it. I just don't think you can overpower the 'vig', when it comes to sports betting.

If you look at it this way, it is easy to see why books make cash, and we are looking for re-load bonuses!

Unless you are one of the very few who where "born lucky", you are ultimately pissing into the wind.

Just my opinion, but I told myself it's a damned good one!
 
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Penguinfan

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I think your on to something, some people just can't learn to do anything right no matter how hard they try, and yet some never miss that gutshot str8 draw. Honestly, I am with you on this one.
 

c20916

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Funny you mention that, my friends dad's friend, did you get that, is the lost cause. This guy can't pick his nose, yet he keeps betting more and more. Right now with the local he is down 10g's and he can't cover it, and I am willing to be he'll probably bet 5g's on the Super Bowl. This guy's had 2 dui's, been divorced. I don't know if I would call it bad luck though, maybe stupidity.

I will try and find out who he likes in the SB and I will take the opposite.
 

THE KOD

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c20916 said:
I will try and find out who he likes in the SB and I will take the opposite.
..............................................................

C20916

Let us know who he is taking. thanks

Hey yyz who you taking in the Super Bowl coin flipper ?

KOD
 

yyz

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Scott,

I am trying to pace myself. Like the combatants of the "Big Game", I am just starting my week. I held two-a-day flips today, and expect more of the same tomorrow.

Wednesday, I will set aside most of the morning for sight seeing, and meet with the press in the early PM.

I know that my fans want to have some insight, so I will let you know that my Ganglion cyst is feeling much better this week. The Epsom salts did wonders, as did the holistic chanting by my personal Cantonese monk.

The Philadelphia Mint has assured me that my commemorative coin will be shipped by Pinkerton no later than 3PM on Friday, so I may start to practice with the "real deal".

I will release my "Nick Douglas Ball Basher Special" sometime early Sunday morning, so all callers can get down in plenty of time, and CRUSH THEIR MAN!!!!!!!


The views and opinions expressed in this post are the sole propriety of yyz, and are not necessarily shared by the owners of Mad Jack Sports or their subsidiaries, and sponsors. Any re-posting of this message, or any of it's contents, is strictly prohibited, and punishable by a $10,000 fine, and up to 15 years in prison.
 

KotysDad

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YYZ,

Interesting thread. I agree with your argument but disagree with your initial assumptions. In my opinion, there aren?t 3 types of gamblers, but just one (the average joe) who just swings back and forth across all 3 classes. No one can consistently maintain a 55% winning percentage year after year after year. And if you believe your coin model, it?s just as hard to maintain a 45% winning percentage year after year after year as well. It goes back to that old quip that it?s just as difficult to go 4-0 on a parlay as it is to go 0-4.

Growing up in bars around my neighborhood, I have seen a good share of bettors who for a few weeks can do no wrong, and the other cigar smoking, sports page in the back pocket gamblers wont place their bets until they hear who ?smoking Joe? likes today. Well when the end of the month comes around and the barkeep wants his bar tabs settled, smokin? Joe is still going to be asking for a few more days to settle up. Why? Cuz for every hot streak he hits, he sure as hell is going have a streak where everyone says, ?Where?s the stiff so I can see who he likes and go the other way.?

He?s going to spend most of his time right in the meaty part of the bell curve, right there with the millions of other gamblers who pay the juice man every Monday morning. When it comes to sports gambling (poker excluded) I honestly don?t believe there are ANY true professional gamblers. To me, a professional gambler is one who year after year after year brings in a positive, expected salary from his work. No gambler can expect to take in $800 every week, or $80,000 every year, year after year with NO deviations from the norm. Most people that I have encountered in my life that ?claim? to be a professional sports gambler has a spouse bringing in a steady paycheck.

I guess since I disagree with your initial assumptions, I also have to disagree with one of your conclusions. Since I don?t believe in luck, I don?t believe anyone was born lucky. I could spend hours conversing with someone on the topic of luck vs. random chance and how everything happens for a reason, but this isn?t the thread to get into that lengthy discussion. I do agree with your other conclusion. VIG is a pig and will eat you eventually ? even if you vary your wagers. Since I don?t believe in luck, and feel I know the laws of probability fairly well, I?ll never in my life believe anyone is able to sustain a lengthy enough run of wins over losses to maintain a comfortable lifestyle for many years to come.
 

yyz

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Dad,

I am lucky you posted!

I do, however, have to disagree with you disagreeing with me.

I didn't mean to imply that the bad bettor never wins, or the winner never loses. You are correct......that just won't happen. But if you do believe in the random coin theory, you would have to agree that some coins, even with many series of vast wins and losses, would still never rise above, or fall below the .500 mark.

Now, you have forgotten more about numeric theories than I could every dream of understanding, but that is my simple plan.


I just don't think your average bettor has any idea how big a stick the bookie has with that "little" 10% juice.
 

danmurphy jr

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Americans lost 3.6 Billion dollars, yes billion to foreign bookmakers in 2003.John McCain will put a stop to that soon. Gambling is the most harmful of the addictions. Men don't commit suicide over tobacco or liquor.
Excellent thread. Hope to see more
 

KotysDad

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yyz said:
But if you do believe in the random coin theory, you would have to agree that some coins, even with many series of vast wins and losses, would still never rise above, or fall below the .500 mark.

Hmmmmm, I'll have to think about this one and get back to you. You're basically implying a "random walk" problem where the walker starts in one direction - equally likely to go right or left- never to cross the starting point to see the other side.

In other words, you have a coin and record head vs. tails. If you first flip a head (head leads 1-0) you are claiming that *some* coins will have heads never trailing in the count.

"Some" is quantifiable in this case. Have to chew the numbers and get back to ya. :chew:

I could never say it's impossible since nothing in this universe is impossible....except maybe me hooking up with Jennifer Garner :cursin:

I'll get back to ya on the random walk problem. But keep in mind, theoretically your claim about some coins might be false.
 

KotysDad

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Upon further review......

I retract my disagreement. Everything I just stated in my above posts only applies to an infinite number of coin tosses or bets. In an infinite number of tosses, eventually EVERY coin will revert back to .500 eventually. But you're not dealing with an infinite number of tosses or bets, in fact, you're dealing (with respect to the law of large numbers) with a very small and finite number of tosses. Nobody can make an infinte number of bets since our lifetime is finite. The laws of large numbers essentially goes kaplooey here. So Yeah, its possible that some coins will always stay above .500 and some will always stay below.

p.s. That makes my hope of bagging Jennifer Garner some day even more unrealistic now. :(
 

maverick2112

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I agree with yyz's post........I have often thought the only real way to win at games like this (sportsbetting) is to figure out some way where you can show a profit without having to win 54% of your plays......probably cant be done.......it would mean you would have to randomly play your games by the units method and win your bigger unit games.......easier said than done
 

yyz

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Nick Douglas said:
Losers believe in luck. Winners f*ck the prom queen.


......and some just disappear from the handicapping scene when they can't find a way to win.
 
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