Ike and Salim ?
- Thread starter volfan
- Start date
can certainly see the argument that stoudamire is a better shooter than redick. salim holds the edge there.
but think its no contest as to who the better overall player is.
redick plays for the better team, averages more points, averages more assists, averages more rebounds, and averages more steals.
not saying that a certain average is the most important criterion for an award, but redick's numbers are definitely better and he's certain got a leg up in the 'team player' department.
but think its no contest as to who the better overall player is.
redick plays for the better team, averages more points, averages more assists, averages more rebounds, and averages more steals.
not saying that a certain average is the most important criterion for an award, but redick's numbers are definitely better and he's certain got a leg up in the 'team player' department.
DUKE HATER HERE,I WILL SAY REDICK IS THE BETTER PURE SHOOTER OVER SALIM,NO COMPARISONgman2 said:
volfan said:
probably, although id surmise that they try to get 2 guards and 3 forwards or 2 guards, 2 forwards, and the closest thing to a center. not sure though. havent seen the rest of the list
redick averages more mins and more shots which is why all his numbers are higher.....take a look at points per min and get back to me.
as far as a better "team player" and who plays for a better team...you must still be referring to the salim of last year, and the marginally better record of duke over arizona.....i'd check duke's non conf schedule as well.....plus if playing for a good team meant selection on an all american team ike diogu would be nowhere to be found.
as far as a better "team player" and who plays for a better team...you must still be referring to the salim of last year, and the marginally better record of duke over arizona.....i'd check duke's non conf schedule as well.....plus if playing for a good team meant selection on an all american team ike diogu would be nowhere to be found.
unless my math is faulty, both redick and stoudamire average exactly .59 points per minute, give or take a decimal hundreth.
so you lose your argument there.
as for being a team player, thats no comparison either. stoudamire doesnt even average 2 assists per game, and however many suspensions or run-ins with olson that he's had are that many more than redick has had.
hate to defend anything duke, but have to do it in this case.
is stoudamire a better pure shooter? yes, he is.
but better player overall and better teammate? no chance
so you lose your argument there.
as for being a team player, thats no comparison either. stoudamire doesnt even average 2 assists per game, and however many suspensions or run-ins with olson that he's had are that many more than redick has had.
hate to defend anything duke, but have to do it in this case.
is stoudamire a better pure shooter? yes, he is.
but better player overall and better teammate? no chance
Well as I recall Arizona played 2 ACC teams this year - how did that work out?
Puke's SOS - 4 AZ - 17
But AZ did alos play Wright State, and San Diego , Michigan, Wyoming, Mnahattan, E Washingon and so on. Good wins v Utah (close at home) and Miss State (neutral and closer than Pukes win). Thats about it.
Puke - Oklahoma and Michigan State best non conf game, rest pretty much weak, but in a better conference. Adv Puke again.
Common Opponents: Az - 1-2 Puke 4-1
GJ you arent even close, and this from a Puke hater.
Puke's SOS - 4 AZ - 17
But AZ did alos play Wright State, and San Diego , Michigan, Wyoming, Mnahattan, E Washingon and so on. Good wins v Utah (close at home) and Miss State (neutral and closer than Pukes win). Thats about it.
Puke - Oklahoma and Michigan State best non conf game, rest pretty much weak, but in a better conference. Adv Puke again.
Common Opponents: Az - 1-2 Puke 4-1
GJ you arent even close, and this from a Puke hater.
how'd it work out?
those games were before thanksgiving.....who cares.....
duke-arizona....game would be pick...just like ok state-arizona...just like uw-arizona....these teams are all about even....dont get where people put one team above another...to me it's ill-unc....then about 12 teams whe are all dead even and who all can beat ill-unc any given day (but would be dogs)
those games were before thanksgiving.....who cares.....
duke-arizona....game would be pick...just like ok state-arizona...just like uw-arizona....these teams are all about even....dont get where people put one team above another...to me it's ill-unc....then about 12 teams whe are all dead even and who all can beat ill-unc any given day (but would be dogs)
i know alot of you guys will argue this, but I think Dee Brown is better than J.J. Redick
Brown is a better shooter from 2pt and 3 pt range and plays better defensivley. He sure as hell doessn't have J.J.'s FT shooting ability, but overall, I just think Brown is better.
If anything, Brown should of been there instead of Chris Paul.
Brown is a better shooter from 2pt and 3 pt range and plays better defensivley. He sure as hell doessn't have J.J.'s FT shooting ability, but overall, I just think Brown is better.
If anything, Brown should of been there instead of Chris Paul.
My quick take on this one:
Gman, your argument that Reddick and Stoudamire average .59 points a minute means nothing when you consider that Reddick takes so many more shots. The better team player? Reddick takes several more ill advised shots than Stoudamire. . . I've seen it several times in several games this year. Stoudamire is not exactly the liability that you believe he still is . . . last year he was. . . this year has been quite different.
You did make a comment in another thread about Stoudamire as if he is the same old shooter that gets down on himself and has a bad attitude. That is also not correct. He did have one spat in December but after he was suspended for one game and came back, he hasn't had any problems since. Also, his numbers and percentages alone do not support your theory! If he gets down on himself and drags himself and his team down with his attitude when he isn't shooting well then how do you explain over 50% FG and over 50% 3 point FG? He has had slow starts in previous games only to come back and have a great 2nd half. We didn't see that last year but this year has been different.
Now all that being said, I still side with you Gman in that Reddick is the better overall player because of the numbers that he puts up with rebounds, assists, and steals. So he deserved first team over Stoudamire as much as I hate to say that. But Stoudamire isn't as bad of an overall player as you are stating. . . he is very much an undervalued defender. . . most just don't pay attention to him on the defensive end.
Gman, your argument that Reddick and Stoudamire average .59 points a minute means nothing when you consider that Reddick takes so many more shots. The better team player? Reddick takes several more ill advised shots than Stoudamire. . . I've seen it several times in several games this year. Stoudamire is not exactly the liability that you believe he still is . . . last year he was. . . this year has been quite different.
You did make a comment in another thread about Stoudamire as if he is the same old shooter that gets down on himself and has a bad attitude. That is also not correct. He did have one spat in December but after he was suspended for one game and came back, he hasn't had any problems since. Also, his numbers and percentages alone do not support your theory! If he gets down on himself and drags himself and his team down with his attitude when he isn't shooting well then how do you explain over 50% FG and over 50% 3 point FG? He has had slow starts in previous games only to come back and have a great 2nd half. We didn't see that last year but this year has been different.
Now all that being said, I still side with you Gman in that Reddick is the better overall player because of the numbers that he puts up with rebounds, assists, and steals. So he deserved first team over Stoudamire as much as I hate to say that. But Stoudamire isn't as bad of an overall player as you are stating. . . he is very much an undervalued defender. . . most just don't pay attention to him on the defensive end.
I don't think he really did anything to warrant the suspension as much as Lute decided to take the reigns and make Stoudamire regain his focus as he has done with other players in the past and this season. He's been lights out ever since.
But yeah, your argument makes sense Sun. . . its hard to defend Stoudamire when he has had so many run ins in the past. . . but that's all in the past.
But yeah, your argument makes sense Sun. . . its hard to defend Stoudamire when he has had so many run ins in the past. . . but that's all in the past.
nickel:
the "points per minute" thing is not my argument at all.
it's gjn's.
he said the scoring averages dont matter and that after looking at the points per minute numbers, then i should come talk to him.
well, i did the math for him and they both average 0.59 ppm.
again, his argument. not mine
the "points per minute" thing is not my argument at all.
it's gjn's.
he said the scoring averages dont matter and that after looking at the points per minute numbers, then i should come talk to him.
well, i did the math for him and they both average 0.59 ppm.
again, his argument. not mine
furthermore, i never said he was a liability. he's a great player. but he's absolutely a me-first player. and thats not just last year. there have actually been two different times when i remember seeing him visibly pout on the court because someone didnt swing him the ball or pass the ball out to him from the post. who wants to play with a guy like that? not me, and ive played a high level of basketball and it sounds like you have to, so you know what a good teammate is compared with a bad one.
well, michael jordan always demanded the ball and frowned when luc longley shot.....would you want jordan as a teammate? i know i would
ppm with salim and jj comes out roughly the same....but jj takes WAY more shots...factor that in and salim scores more than jj.
who cares they are both deserving of some kind of recognition...i just think jj gets way too much.
ppm with salim and jj comes out roughly the same....but jj takes WAY more shots...factor that in and salim scores more than jj.
who cares they are both deserving of some kind of recognition...i just think jj gets way too much.
You score whatever you score. You dont score more because you took less shots. That is ridiculous.
