The truth hurts

[gardenweasel]

one of the great flaws of the bush administartion...they don`t seem to work very hard at educating the public....and are paying dearly as much of the mainstream liberal media continues to hammer on abu gharaib and other meaningless garbage...by the sheer volume of their attacks on our military....undermining the effort in iraq...at every turn....

i can pull up some of that if you`d like...

this stuff is out there...and it`s factual....

pbs....network correspondents....aren`t credible to you guys....unless they tote the liberal party line...

you hear so much b.s. about "no link to terrorism",that people actually start to buy the b.s...

no...saddam didn`t plot 9/11.....but he`s been involved...an accomplice...in aiding,abetting,paying,harboring,enabling terrorists for almost 2 decades...

that`s abundantly clear...

and that`s just a tiny fragment of his many trangressions.... against his own people...his neighbors...israel..plots to kill g.w.,sr.... ..you can go on and on....

bring on the moveon.org stuff...but you`d better check it carefully....you may get laughed out of here....

lets discuss their move to get a definite departure date for the troops from iraq...they might as well strap bombs to their asses and walk into the aberdeen proving grounds or fort bragg...the damage they would do to this country,iraq and our troops would be comparable...either/or...

more than 2 panels kosar...

and more to come...

 

[gardenweasel]

That's correct, chips. Futhermore, the CIA, FBI and the bi-partisan 9/11 commission all agree that there was no relationship or cooperation between the entities. GW, you are starting to sound like Cheney. You are taking these unsubstantiated, and in fact repudiated by our own intelligence, tidbits as facts. I think Cheney is still claiming that Atta met with an Iraqi operative in Prague, when in fact it was proven that at that time Atta was in sunny Florida.

Cheney claims that Iraq was the terrorists 'geographical base.' Of course that's just another lie. In fact, that's simply ridiculous. He also threw in 9/11 when he made that staement. Ahem, Wayne?

While we have actual proof that Al-Qaeda has collaborated with, and continues to collaborate with Iran, there is no such credible evidence against Iraq. None, zero. Just because some terrorists have at one time stepped on Iraqi soil, does not mean that they had ties with Saddams regime.

Hell, half the hijackers were enjoying the bars and strip clubs in Miami and in Las Vegas shortly before the attacks.

By all accounts, Bin Laden hated Saddam and vice versa. Ol' Osama doesn't suffer secular regimes easily.

I undertsnad that as each reason for the invasion is discredited, it gets harder to justify, but aren't we almost done with the list? Please?

-The 9/11 commission reported yesterday that it has found no "collaborative relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda, challenging one of the Bush administration's main justifications for the war in Iraq.

Along with the contention that Saddam Hussein was stockpiling weapons of mass destruction, President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials have often asserted that there were extensive ties between Hussein's government and Osama bin Laden's terrorist network; earlier this year, Cheney said evidence of a link was "overwhelming."

But the report of the commission's staff, based on its access to all relevant classified information, said that there had been contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda but no cooperation. In yesterday's hearing of the panel, formally known as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, a senior FBI official and a senior CIA analyst concurred with the finding.

The staff report said that bin Laden "explored possible cooperation with Iraq" while in Sudan through 1996, but that "Iraq apparently never responded" to a bin Laden request for help in 1994. The commission cited reports of contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda after bin Laden went to Afghanistan in 1996, adding, "but they do not appear to have resulted in a collaborative relationship. Two senior bin Laden associates have adamantly denied that any ties existed between al Qaeda and Iraq. We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States."

The finding challenges a belief held by large numbers of Americans about al Qaeda's ties to Hussein. According to a Harris poll in late April, a plurality of Americans, 49 percent to 36 percent, believe "clear evidence that Iraq was supporting al Qaeda has been found."

As recently as Monday, Cheney said in a speech that Hussein "had long-established ties with al Qaeda." Bush, asked on Tuesday to verify or qualify that claim, defended it by pointing to Abu Musab Zarqawi, who has taken credit for a wave of attacks in Iraq.

lol....

Recall that Abdul Rahman Yasin, one of the al-Qaeda bombers who hit the World Trade Center in 1993, fled to Iraq after that attack and lived there freely, reportedly with a government salary. That’s one clear link to al-Qaeda.

Then there is the interesting case of Ahmad Hikmat Shakir — an Iraqi VIP facilitator who worked at the international airport in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Citing "a foreign government service," page 340 of the Senate Intelligence Committee's report on pre-Iraq-War intelligence indicates that, "Shakir claimed he got this job through Ra'ad al-Mudaris, an Iraqi Embassy employee" in Malaysia. On January 5, 2000, Shakir greeted Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi at Kuala Lampur’s airport. He then escorted them to a local hotel where these September 11 hijackers met with 9/11 conspirators Ramzi bin al Shibh and Tawfiz al Atash. Five days later, according to The Weekly Standard’s Stephen Hayes, Shakir disappeared.



Khalid al Midhar and Nawaz al Hamzi subsequently spent the morning of September 11, 2001 flying American Airlines Flight 77 into the Pentagon, killing 184 people.

Shakir, the Iraqi airport greeter, was arrested in Qatar on September 17, 2001. On his person and in his apartment, authorities discovered documents connecting him to the 1993 WTC bomb plot and “Operation Bojinka,” al-Qaeda’s 1995 plan to blow up 12 jets simultaneously over the Pacific. Interestingly enough, as a May 27, 2004 Wall Street Journal editorial reported, Ahmed Hikmat Shakir's name appears on three different rosters of the late Uday Hussein's prestigious paramilitary group, the Saddam Fedayeen. A government source told the Journal that the papers identify Shakir as a lieutenant colonel in the Saddam Fedayeen. 20

Below is a rare photograph of Ahmad Khalil Ibrahim Samir al-Ani. He was Consul and Second Secretary at Iraq's Czech embassy between March 1999 and April 22, 2001. He long has been suspected of meeting with September 11 ringleader Mohamed Atta, most likely on April 8, 2001. Perhaps at other times, too. While skeptics dismiss this encounter, Czech intelligence found Al-Ani's appointment calendar in Iraq's Prague embassy, presumably after Saddam Hussein's defeat. Al-Ani's diary lists an April 8, 2001, meeting with "Hamburg student." Maybe, in a massive coincidence, Al-Ani dined with a young scholar and chatted about Hegel and Nietzsche.

 

[gardenweasel]

Or perhaps Al-Ani saw a former student from Hamburg named Mohamed Atta to discuss more practical matters. The Czech government sticks to their contention that they did observe this Iraqi diplomat meeting with Mohamed Atta just five months before 9-11. As Czech U.N. Ambassador Hynek Kmonicek explained in a letter to Philadelphia attorney James Beasley, Jr.: “In this moment we can confirm, that during the next stay of Mr. Muhammad Atta in the Czech Republic, there was the contact with the official of the Iraqi intelligence, Mr. Al Ani, Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir, who was on 22nd April 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities which were not compatible with the diplomatic status.” 21 Al-Ani was kicked out of Prague for casing the headquarters of Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Iraq, presumably because he wanted to blow them up.

Of course, we know what happened next. Mohamed Atta and his henchmen went to airports on the East Coast. Here he is in Portland, Maine at 5:45 a.m. on September 11, 2001."""



i`m used to reading and then writing my own stuff...forming my own opinions...

this cutting and pasting stuff is much easier....watching kosar flail about trying to refute the facts....is actually fun...

thanks for daring me to cut and paste your butt into next week....now i know how mayweather felt torturing gatti last night...

it was my pleasure,my friend :mj14:

you need more,give me a holler...

 

[kosar]

one of the great flaws of the bush administartion...they don`t seem to work very hard at educating the public....and are paying dearly as much of the mainstream liberal media continues to hammer on abu gharaib and other meaningless garbage...by the sheer volume of their attacks on our military....undermining the effort in iraq...at every turn....

GW,

You're starting to lose focus. That paragraph has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Are you pulling a 'Wayne' on me? I agree that the Abu Gharib coverage was over the top. I also believe that the troops involved, and the climate that encouraged their behavior embarrassed our country and put even more of our troops at risk. Maybe you should take a look at that angle instead of screaming, MEDIA!! The troops did the acts. The troops took the pictures and the troops delivered the pictures to the media. Draw your own conclusions.

pbs....network correspondents....aren`t credible to you guys....unless they tote the liberal party line...

Not sure what you mean.

you hear so much b.s. about "no link to terrorism",that people actually start to buy the b.s...

LOL- the 'BS' is directly from the FBI, the CIA and the 9/11 commission. My God.

no...saddam didn`t plot 9/11.....but he`s been involved...an accomplice...in aiding,abetting,paying,harboring,enabling terrorists for almost 2 decades...

It's not quite as dramatic as you make it sound (nothing ever is), but yes, he hates Israel and has given money to Palestinian suicide bombers familes. Last I checked, the Palestinians were not responsible for 9/11. He would love for Israel to disappear, judt like the rest of the ME. If you think that warrants an invasion, then so be it. But the reasons for invasion are getting exponentially weaker as we go down the list.

and that`s just a tiny fragment of his many trangressions.... against his own people...his neighbors...israel..plots to kill g.w.,sr.... ..you can go on and on....

He was contained. Period. Bush and co. were wrong and the UN was right. I probably despise the UN as much as you, but I can at least see the truth in that. That 'plot' against Bush 41 was nothing more than vague wishful thinking. By that standard, probably 50 countries have 'plots' against any of our presidents.

bring on the moveon.org stuff...but you`d better check it carefully....you may get laughed out of here....

Never been to the site, but ok.

lets discuss their move to get a definite departure date for the troops from iraq...they might as well strap bombs to their asses and walk into the aberdeen proving grounds or fort bragg...the damage they would do to this country,iraq and our troops would be comparable...either/or...

I agree. We can't give a date. That's what makes this situation so f*cked up. As predicted by some of us before we even went there. But surely even you realize that that damage to Iraq is inevitable. There will not be a peaceful democracy there. Ever. It just takes some people longer to concede that than others. So the question is, how many more young kids lives do we sacrifice? How many more limbs have to get blown off? How many more billions wasted?

Honestly, how do you envision this thing ending? Keep in ming that so far, those on 'your side'(ie-this ridiculously inept admin) have been wrong about every single thing regarding this invasion.

 

[kosar]

Or perhaps Al-Ani saw a former student from Hamburg named Mohamed Atta to discuss more practical matters. The Czech government sticks to their contention that they did observe this Iraqi diplomat meeting with Mohamed Atta just five months before 9-11. As Czech U.N. Ambassador Hynek Kmonicek explained in a letter to Philadelphia attorney James Beasley, Jr.: ?In this moment we can confirm, that during the next stay of Mr. Muhammad Atta in the Czech Republic, there was the contact with the official of the Iraqi intelligence, Mr. Al Ani, Ahmed Khalin Ibrahim Samir, who was on 22nd April 2001 expelled from the Czech Republic on the basis of activities which were not compatible with the diplomatic status.? 21 Al-Ani was kicked out of Prague for casing the headquarters of Radio Free Europe and Radio Free Iraq, presumably because he wanted to blow them up.

Of course, we know what happened next. Mohamed Atta and his henchmen went to airports on the East Coast. Here he is in Portland, Maine at 5:45 a.m. on September 11, 2001."""



i`m used to reading and then writing my own stuff...forming my own opinions...

this cutting and pasting stuff is much easier....watching kosar flail about trying to refute the facts....is actually fun...

thanks for daring me to cut and paste your butt into next week....now i know how mayweather felt torturing gatti last night...

it was my pleasure,my friend :mj14:

you need more,give me a holler...

lol!

Yeah, apparently you weren't aware that it was proven that Atta was in Florida, not Prague, at that time.

Proven beyond a doubt!

You mentioned before that Bush & co have done a poor job of brainwashing the masses. Your posts in this thread prove you wrong.

Dick Cheney is the last person on earth that believes Atta was in Prague meeting with an Iraqi operative. Well, except for you I guess.

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned how Iraq was looking to buy uranium for Nigeria.

For those that haven't been paying attention the last couple years (GW), virtually ALL of that crap that you posted has been discredited or marginalized. Not by the media, but by senate commissions, the FBI and the CIA.

 

[BobbyBlueChip]

Dick Cheney is the last person on earth that believes Atta was in Prague meeting with an Iraqi operative. Well, except for you I guess.

The last three (yes, three) times he's mentioned it, he's recanted the very next day.

 

[gardenweasel]

you called me out...i provided the info....as requested...my pleasure..

you guys are so hopelessly entrenched in liberal ideology,that it`s useless to try and show you that saddam was a threat to the region....and therefore to the world...

he was indeed the number one threat to the region`s stability...not to mention a terrorist helper...enabler...funder....harborer....

and all i get in response is..."bush brainwashing" and cheney,cheney and more cheney..

take a look in the mirror....at least try and be objective occasionally...

don`t let your bias...your abject hatred for bush,cheney,rumsfeld cloud your critical thinking...

i bash bush on the border...stem cells...medical marijuana...social security...any number of issues...

i`ve never heard one decent thing come from you guys regarding the administration...becuse you guys have a severe case of bush myopia....

take some prednisone...

imo,on national security...he gets an "A"...

and btw... keep working hard to get the patriot act overturned,guys..even though proof of abuses are few and very far between....

maybe if the act is overturned...and we get hit hard again,you can spin it and blame bush,cheney and rumsfeld....

lets tell the terroists when we are going to pull out of iraq....and pull the plug on the patrriot act...

sounds like a great liberal plan...

keep up the good work gents... :clap:

 

[kosar]

and all i get in response is..."bush brainwashing" and cheney,cheney and more cheney..

Unless you haven't read any of the posts, I find it hard to believe that you think that is 'all you got.'

As far as Cheney, you're parroting his nonsense about Atta being in Prague with an Iraqi operative. That's false.

You mentioned how Bush has done a poor job of getting the word out, and I simply pointed out that you're spitting back about Saddam-Al-Qaeda associations, even though the 9/11 commission, FBI and CIA all disagree. It's been proven as false. I think that you're the one who is disregarding facts, and definitely common sense.

don`t let your bias...your abject hatred for bush,cheney,rumsfeld cloud your critical thinking...

i bash bush on the border...stem cells...medical marijuana...social security...any number of issues...

i`ve never heard one decent thing come from you guys regarding the administration...becuse you guys have a severe case of bush myopia....

I'm sure you saw my other post. I have no hatred for Bush, only the others who decided 15 years ago that if they got a shot at invading Iraq, they would do it. They got the shot because of 9/11 and that's sickening.

I agree with you on the smaller things(except for ss reform, I guess), but the big one is Iraq and that will define his presidency and talk about abject failures?

imo,on national security...he gets an "A"...

If you mean kowtowing to Vincente Fox about keeping our southern border a sieve, then I guess so. Overall, I don't think he's been any better or worse than anybody else regarding 'homeland security.'

However, somebody should look into how some drunk 19 yr old could steal a plane and circle NYC for two hours without anybody noticing. I'm sure you saw that last week.

and btw... keep working hard to get the patriot act overturned,guys..even though proof of abuses are few and very far between....

maybe if the act is overturned...and we get hit hard again,you can spin it and blame bush,cheney and rumsfeld....

I do not agree that it should be permantely implemented, as Bush wants. How about a review every 3 or 5 years? Government does not revoke 'temporary' taxes or 'temporary' power without specific provisions calling for congressional review by law.

lets tell the terroists when we are going to pull out of iraq....and pull the plug on the patrriot act...

sounds like a great liberal plan...

keep up the good work gents... :clap:

Already addressed the 'pull out date' issue, and I don't agree with that and i'm sure that will not happen.

Oh, in case you've missed it, several prominent republicans are calling for an exit plan. Just so you know. Inevitably, more will follow. This war is f*cked. Some of us knew it would be before it started, some of us are just now starting to get it and some never will.

Believe it or not, there are some people that think Vietnam was a good idea, but was lost because of the media. Sound familiar?