Everybody blaming everybody else

kosar

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Politics as usual. No personal accountability.


WASHINGTON (Sept. 5) -- As the Bush administration tried to show a more forceful effort to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, government officials on Sunday escalated their criticism and sniping over who was to blame for the problems plaguing the initial response.

While rescuers were still trying to reach people stranded by the floods, perhaps the only consensus among local, state and federal officials was that the system had failed.

Some federal officials said uncertainty over who was in charge had contributed to delays in providing aid and imposing order, and officials in Louisiana complained that Washington disaster officials had blocked some aid efforts.

Local and state resources were so weakened, said Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, that in the future federal authorities need to take "more of an upfront role earlier on, when we have these truly ultracatastrophes."

But furious state and local officials insisted that the real problem was that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which Mr. Chertoff's department oversees, failed to deliver urgently needed help and, through incomprehensible red tape, even thwarted others' efforts to help.

"We wanted soldiers, helicopters, food and water," said Denise Bottcher, press secretary for Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco of Louisiana. "They wanted to negotiate an organizational chart."


Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans expressed similar frustrations. "We're still fighting over authority," he told reporters on Saturday. "A bunch of people are the boss. The state and federal government are doing a two-step dance."


"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans -- virtually a city that has been destroyed -- things are going relatively well."
-- FEMA Director Michael Brown in CNN interview Thursday, Sept. 1
(huh? thursday was the worst day of them all)

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
-- President Bush praises Brown during visit to Alabama Friday
(wow, didn't he also say that the federal response was unacceptable?)


"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry... Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially.''
-- The Times-Picayune Sunday editorial


"Mr. President, Madame Governor, you two have to get in sync. If you don't get in sync, more people are going to die."
-- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin recounts what he told President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco Friday.


"If one person criticizes them, or says one more thing, including the president of the United States, he will hear from me. One more word about it... and I -- I might likely have to punch him."
-- Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., on ABC's 'This Week' defends sheriff's department.


"They've had press conferences. I'm sick of the press conferences. For God's sakes, shut up and send us somebody."
-- Aaron Broussard Jefferson Parish president pleads for help on NBC's 'Meet the Press' Sunday.



In one of several such appeals, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, called on President Bush on Sunday to appoint an independent national commission to examine the relief effort. She also said that she intends to introduce legislation to remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and restore its previous status as an independent agency with cabinet-level status.

Mr. Chertoff tried to deflect the criticism of his department and FEMA by saying there would be time later to decide what went wrong.

"Whatever the criticisms and the after-action report may be about what was right and what was wrong looking back, what would be a horrible tragedy would be to distract ourselves from avoiding further problems because we're spending time talking about problems that have already occurred," he told Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

But local officials, who still feel overwhelmed by the continuing tragedy, demanded accountability and as well as action.

"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?" asked Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans.

Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on "Meet the Press."

When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away, he said. Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish's emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA, Mr. Broussard said.


One sign of the continuing battle over who was in charge was Governor Blanco's refusal to sign an agreement proposed by the White House to share control of National Guard forces with the federal authorities.


Under the White House plan, Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honor? would oversee both the National Guard and the active duty federal troops, reporting jointly to the president and Ms. Blanco.

"She would lose control when she had been in control from the very beginning," said Ms. Bottcher, the governor's press secretary.
(huh? she's worried about 'losing control?' wtf)

Ms. Bottcher was one of several officials yesterday who said she believed FEMA had interfered with the delivery of aid, including offers from the mayor of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, and the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Adam Sharp, a spokesman for Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, said the problem was not who was in command. FEMA repeatedly held up assistance that could have been critical, he said.

"FEMA has just been very slow to make these decisions," Mr. Sharp said.

In a clear slap at Mr. Chertoff and the FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, Governor Blanco announced Saturday that she had hired James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA during the Clinton administration, to advise her on the recovery.

Nearly every emergency worker told agonizing stories of communications failures, some of them most likely fatal to victims. Police officers called Senator Landrieu's Washington office because they could not reach commanders on the ground in New Orleans, Mr. Sharp said.

Dr. Ross Judice, chief medical officer for a large ambulance company, recounted how on Tuesday, unable to find out when helicopters would land to pick up critically ill patients at the Superdome, he walked outside and discovered that two helicopters, donated by an oil services company, had been waiting in the parking lot.


Louisiana and New Orleans have received a total of about $750 million in federal emergency and terrorism preparedness grants in the last four years, Homeland Security Department officials said.

Mr. Chertoff said he recognized that the local government's capacity to respond to the disaster was severely compromised by the hurricane and flood.

"What happened here was that essentially, the demolishment of that state and local infrastructure, and I think that really caused the cascading series of breakdowns," he said. (nice, homeland security blaming it on the state and local people)

But Mayor Nagin said the root of the breakdown was the failure of the federal government to deliver relief supplies and personnel quickly.

"They kept promising and saying things would happen," he said. "I was getting excited and telling people that. They kept making promises and promises."
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Is interesting considering this was 1st time in history an area was federally mandated as disaster area before it ever occurred.

Would say the fault will lie on whoever did not or could not evacuate the bulk of population from an area that lies below sea level with a catagory 5 bearing down -- already classified as disaster area--the aftermath was going to be inevitable with only the extremes in question.

Case in point---where are the horror stories out of Mississippi or Bama---and where were the snipers-looters ect in these areas?
 
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kosar

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
Would say the fault will lie on whoever did not or could not evacuate the bulk of population from an area that lies below sea level with a catagory 5 bearing down

Case in point---where are the horror stories out of Mississippi or Bama---and where were the snipers-looters ect in these areas?

I realize that you will say anything to avoid criticizing any federal organization, but there is plenty of blame to go around. The planning from the city was horseshit. The response from the state level was horseshit. And there is no excuse for it to take 4 days for anybody to get in there. Yes, FEMA, reservists and the Guard. Blame who you will for that.

Per Trent Lott, there has been plenty of looting in Mississippi and yesterday he plead for security because of the looting, but as 99.9% of the coverage is about New Orleans, we might not necessarily hear that. They are bitching in MS, TODAY, that FEMA has done little or nothing for them.

You saw that when we eventually brought troops in there, the 'snipers' disappeared. So what took so long?
 

djv

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There has been there share of complaining coming from Mississippi. If you missed Joe Scarborough you saw plenty. Even folks stealing from stores. Difference was not much of anything was left standing. And like Joe said Mississippi story does not seem to get coverage.
In any case we sure don't look ready for any sizable terrorist attack. The mayor of N OR had it right. No more press confereneces. You can always tell when things are screwed up the Fed's at all levels get in front of those mikes to explain how well it is.
 
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kosar

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Piece on right now on MSNBC about widespread looting in Biloxi. The 'looted' guy interviewed says the police Dept is doing everything they can, but they need help from the feds.
 

dr. freeze

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hopefully we can get to a place where after a horrific catastrophe everything will work like clockwork

geez people are doing everything they can

and the chronic complainers are still complaining....nothing new

it all starts with a horrible evacuation effort and ends with nothing new -- your government at work

listen folks, your governmnet will not protect you nor provide your every need -- despite the dreams of some...the utopia in the sky where all human suffering ends is not far off -- lets just give the government more power and we will all have that

no government has been able to do that in the history of the world, and ours is probably the best it has ever had

currently i see a lot of people working hard and a lot of generosity from the American people

think about such things and your blood pressure will lower 10 points instead of popping a vein
 

djv

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We better start learning fast. Be good for the country to have it's citizens feel that way. We need a strong Fema director that can have same say as Security director.
 

dr. freeze

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Constitutionally, the feds cannot do much unless the state turns over control

currently, that is not the situation, so there is no need to complain about that
 

AR182

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in normal times the partisan politics is sickening....

now with this disaster, i'm afraid i can't think of a word that is worse than sickening......

i would like all the politicans, media types, & talk show guests just disappear...& for us to start over.
 

smurphy

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AR182 said:
i would like all the politicans, media types, & talk show guests just disappear...& for us to start over.
AMEN!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
 

kosar

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Who the hell knows what went wrong, but W himself said that the FEDERAL response was unacceptable, Republican Senator Vitters from Louisiana said the feds get an 'F' . And so was everybody elses, I suspect. It was NOT George's fault personally, but some of the federal organizations should be re-evaluated after the dust settles.

I agree with Freeze when he says everyone is doing everything they can. It brings a tear to your eye when you watch these rescues, when you see the hospitality at the shelters and just the decent side of humanity. It's simply incredible.
 

djv

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Guys if we as a country do not learn form this disaster. We may not get many more chances. We were since Andrew in 1990 an 9/11/01 to have gotten our chit together. I don't give a dam who gets it done right just get it done. There has to be a way that someone takes charge and makes sure all agency act as they should. This last example is not the right idea. We here about N OR everyday. But poor Mississippi is just torn to chit and parts of Alabama to.
 

AR182

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all i know is that the feds & the state better start practicing how they're going to handle these type ( natural disasters & terrorism) of events.

sports teams practice & so should the various levels of gov't.

has anybody heard how louisiana handled the funds that they got from the feds on handling emergencies ?
 

djv

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I can tell you what my city did with it's large check of $180000. The government that would be the Fed had us order this fancy Truck. It's some big ford truck convert to a swat machine. What we wanted to do was put another couple boots on the ground. Also up grad communication equipment. And get proper nerve center planed. We are a small city with around 100000 in area. That was our big check for this year. What I'm telling you. Your city may get a check. But they will be told ways to spend it.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Don't think my post excused or pointed finger at anyone (unlike some) but rather a "situation" that I deemed bared the brunt of the prob---I honestly don't know who is responsible situation I spoke of.

If you could enlighten me on who was responsible for evacuation it would serve me much better than quoting editorials from NYT ;)
 
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dawgball

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but some of the federal organizations should be re-evaluated after the dust settles.

I look for this to be done as well. Also, I would like to see Louisiana's re-evaluation of their situation as well. First, I would like them to truly consider if rebuilding the city in the same spot is a GOOD idea. Outside of immediate morale, I think there are no advantages of rebuilding New Orleans compared to building up another port city.

The 'looted' guy interviewed says the police Dept is doing everything they can, but they need help from the feds.

Glad they brought out the experts to get someone else to blame the Federal Government for their problems. ;)
 

kosar

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
Don't think my post excused or pointed finger at anyone (unlike some) but rather a "situation" that I deemed bared the brunt of the prob---I honestly don't know who is responsible situation I spoke of.

If you could enlighten me on who was responsible for evacuation it would serve me much better than quoting editorials from NYT ;)

I didn't know that was from the NYT(if it even is), I got it off of MSN's homepage. Who cares where it's from, anyways? That didn't look like any sort of editorial. It was mostly a bunch of quotes from a bunch of people trying to cover their asses.

It showed the feds blaming the city. The state blaming the feds and everything in between. That was the point. Nobody looking at himself/herself and what he/she was responsible for, but just pointing fingers.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around. The city did not have a plan for evacuation before the event, the Governor has been like a deer in the headlights and the feds response was painfully slow. The city was drowning and our President was giving a speech comparing Iraq to WW2. That was they day the levee broke. One day later he was giving a speech on medicare.

It's not his fault, but there there definitely was no sense of urgency from anybody. The mayor disappears for 4 days then goes nuts on everyone.

If this is the best we can do in a city with a very predictable crisis, I can't imagine what will happen if there's an unexpected disaster in some random city.
 
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