So you want to play poker for a living-Long read

[Agent 0659]

So You Wanna' Be a Tournament Pro? Fuhgetaboutit!
By Nolan Dalla
(All Rights Reserved)

Coming Home
I returned home recently after spending a full month in Tunica, Mississippi at the World Poker Open. This marks the second consecutive year I have attended (and covered) this prestigious poker tournament. Before proceeding, I wish to say there is no tournament held anywhere in the world which is better run than the Jack Binion World Poker Open. The Gold Strike and Horseshoe casinos both team up to host an exceptional annual event, which is now entering its fifth consecutive year. In no way are the points of view expressed here intended to reflect poorly on this tournament or the organizers.

I came back home from Mississippi with many of my earlier perceptions fortified, and others changed forever -- changed in ways that make it impossible for me to look upon the tournament circuit with the same vivacity and wonderment that I once had for this great game. In many ways, January 2003 marked the loss of my innocence and woke me up to some cold stark realities.

If my illusions about tournament poker were shattered recently, the first crack surfaced at least a year earlier. After the 2002 World Poker Open, I started to question the assumption of players I once admired. I became uncomfortable with the common practice of backing arrangements. Worst and most troublesome, I found myself doubting the character of many poker players revered as icons.

My dose of reality was not born of na?vet?. After all, I have now covered the tournament circuit for a decade. What shocked me wasn't the ceaseless chicanery or the sullen faces of many on the tournament circuit so much as the degrees of depravity which currently exist in tournament poker. Following last year's cycle of tournaments, I ascribed my concerns to being burned out. Perhaps they were merely aberrations.

More than a year passed -- with several poker tournaments in between -- including the World Series of Poker, the Queens Poker Classic, and other major events. I became exposed to even more circumstances that were troubling to me, more than enough examples to realize that my initial fears about the poker tournament circuit were not an aberration. They were common practices and a way of life for many players.

The next question became, what, if anything, should I do about these concerns?

Should I Keep Silent?
I began to question both the efficacy and wisdom of writing about the problems I saw in tournament poker. Naturally, keeping my mouth shut and going along with the grand illusion was the easiest course of action. After I made the difficult decision to address these concerns, next I found myself asking, "Would PokerPages be the appropriate forum to express these negative points of view about poker?"

One thing I have to come to know is that Mark and Tina Napolitano believe in is issues of integrity. They are dedicated to honesty in reporting. Since its inception, PokerPages has been an open forum dedicated to free debate and open discussion of all things relating to poker. Our mission is to foster the development of poker players and to provide them with accurate information, not to pull the wool over their eyes and create visions of fantasyland. At the very least, alternative points-of-view (and this is certainly not mainstream poker journalism) are welcomed here at this site. In short, PokerPages seemed to be the most appropriate venue for an article you are not likely to see in the mainstream poker media.

Hence, in this column I will share some of these very personal observations -- about what the poker tournament circuit is really like, conveying my thoughts as to what one might expect if aspiring to be a tournament professional. Let's get started.

Life In a Fishbowl
You cannot spend a month or longer at a major event like the World Poker Open or the World Series of Poker and not make some startling observations about the people around you. You cannot help but see people at their best and, more often, at their worst. Living, working, breathing, eating, drinking, and socializing with the same clique of people day after day, night after night. month after month, and year after year gradually takes a toll on one's sense of reality. It becomes much like a military boot camp or a college dormitory. After awhile, there are no secrets.

Indeed, the poker tournament circuit is like living inside a fishbowl. You run into the same scowling faces constantly, at all hours of the day and night. Tournament players try to make their living together, they play together, they socialize together, they eat together, they drink together, and they form close relationships and bonds.

You begin to see the strengths and weaknesses of the people around you. Facades are stripped away, slowly peeled back by the pressures of survival, and true character is ultimately revealed, whether it be at poker tables at 5 o'clock in the morning or the strip clubs down the block. You see who is perpetually stuck. You see who is constantly borrowing money. You see who can and can't handle liquor. You see players displaying all the vices of self-destruction. You see it all.

One of the most troubling aspects of the tournament circuit is seeing how many players are constantly broke. I'm not talking about bad poker players or novices. I'm talking about names and faces everyone would recognize. The point is not to embarrass the misfortunate who have buried themselves into a permanent grave of perpetual destitution. It's rather to point out the immeasurable difficulties at earning a living at this game. Wait, there's more.

 

[Agent 0659]

Shattered Illusions
One underlying quality of poker I have cherished over the years is the game's inherent sense of integrity. Up until my most recent tournament experiences, I believed that poker players, in general, could be trusted far and above other subcultures of society. If conducting a financial arrangement, give me a poker player as a business partner over a banker or lawyer any day. In poker, colossal financial transactions are conducted based on handshakes and promises. I've always greatly admired that rare quality that sets poker apart from other endeavors. Doyle Brunson expressed this point best when he wrote:


A professional gambler is the most honorable of men. I've known a man to walk through four miles of blizzard after his car stalled just to pay a debt on time. I've seen gamblers go hungry to honor a bet, even though no pressure was placed upon them. I shy away from legal contracts. If I can't trust a man's word, then I don't want to do business with him.
-- "Honor in Gambling" According to Doyle (1984)
On today's tournament trail, I find Brunson's virtues going the way of the dinosaur. Sadly, tournament poker is filled with dishonest, dishonorable people. This is not to say that all tournament players are dishonest. Many tournament pros are decent people with loads of integrity. Perhaps in defense of players who do not live up to Brunson's high standards, the perpetual state of indebtedness has blurred the lines between right and wrong and created selfish incentives to default on commitments.

At tournaments, I've witnessed numerous situations where players borrowed money and then did not honor the commitment to pay back the debt when the opportunity arose. This bothers me. Were it only a few players, it would be a troubling issue. But it's an epidemic. Dozens of players have made promises they did not keep. Others have taken advantage of backers because the rules of the arrangement were ambiguous.

Then, there are obvious cases of fraud. Some tournament players have been known to oversell of pieces of themselves. They sell off 2, 3, 5, or perhaps ten percent of themselves in an upcoming event. That seems innocent enough. But add up all the little pieces together owed to backers, and the player owes out 150 percent of himself if he cashes. Under these most dubious circumstances it's clearly in the player's interest to bust out before he has any chance of making the money, since he can't possibly afford to pay off all the backers if he cashes in the tournament. Mel Brooks once wrote a Broadway musical about this formula of deceit called "The Producers." The suckers invested over 100 percent into the project. The organizers skimmed the cream off the top. On Broadway, the notion was humorous. But I doubt if any backers in a poker tournament would be laughing. This is not honorable. In fact, it is fraud.

Then, there are railbirds, who deserve a separate category all unto themselves. In the past I've viewed these motley malicious malcontents with amusement -- sort of like a daily dose of the Frank and Ernest comic strip. The civil libertarian in me defends the right of railbirds to attend poker tournaments. Why should someone who is "economically disadvantaged" be forbidden from attending a poker tournament? It's a free country, and if a railbird can get staked more power to them. But what is troubling is seeing these pests jump on anyone in the poker room who makes any kind of score. They clutter around tournament winners like barnacles stuck to the side of a ship. Eventually, the event winner is so surrounded by the railbirds he can't move. After one player won six figures at a major tournament last year, I watched in awe as nearly a dozen railbirds lined up like a band of merry dwarves whistling as if their ship had come in. It would have been downright comical if were not so typical of what goes on at most tournaments.

Broke Tournament Pros -- What Does it Mean to You?
The obvious question that needs to be asked is -- can you make a living as a tournament pro? I have my doubts. Except for a rare few players who possess exceptional talent and have the bankrolls sufficient enough to play in the biggest events (where the margins of error result in swings of thousands of dollars), most people don't stand a chance of earning a living on the circuit.

It's difficult to prove this point. Much of the financial carnage is strictly anecdotal, which means there are no surveys or official records showing the financial conditions of tournament regulars. But I will testify to the reality that many top names in tournament poker are not only flat broke, but they owe thousands (in some cases hundreds of thousands of dollars) to their backers. The destitution of these supposedly "great" players -- winners of numerous tournaments in the past -- should serve as a giant waving red flag to anyone with illusions of making a living in poker tournaments.

Here's a thought: If many of these "great" players have difficulty supporting themselves, what makes you think you can do so? Sure, there are a few players who have won millions. These are analogous to lottery winners. Sure, you meet a millionaire every now and then. But the vast majority of lottery players are lifetime losers.

At best, tournament poker is a break-even proposition. After paying expenses (travel, hotels, food, and so forth), it is clearly a negative proposition. Even if you think you're good, you will not outplay the best tournament pros. If former World Series of Poker winners are broke, what chance do you have of making it on the circuit? Add the annoying reality of "variance," (also called the "luck factor"), which is significantly higher in tournaments than in live action, and the odds are overwhelming stacked against you. Think about it.

For the Love of Money
Then, there are the predatory qualities of tournament poker. Another of poker's most appealing attributes is that anyone can play, so long as he/she has a bankroll sufficient enough to buy into in the game. Many newcomers to the tournament scene were successful in their private businesses ventures. New to the poker scene, they quickly become magnets for broke players and railbirds. It seems like an honor to stake one of the big names seen in the poker magazines. For newcomers, the best way to gain quick acceptance into the elite clique of tournament players is to avail yourself to loans. It makes these newcomers popular with players. Rarely is a bad word ever uttered about a player who stakes his peers. If so-and-so is "a great guy," that's probably a euphemism which means he gives out money.

I have seen some of these newcomers bled bone dry -- their trust shot and their good intentions violated. One well-known player borrowed a modest sum of $2,000 several months ago from a newcomer. Then, he watched with delight as the debtor recently cashed for nearly $20,000 in prize money. When the newcomer approached the leech to get his money back, the player whisked out a cell phone and pretended to be in the midst of a heated conversation. Next thing, the leech left town without so much as acknowledging the debt.

Another player won a tournament recently. He was due to collect a tidy sum. As the payout was taking place, a line began to form. The line was made up of players who were owed money by the winner. A fight broke out between two of the creditors when it was revealed that the player owed more to one single creditor than the entirety of the payout! Needless to say, only a few people got paid that day.

This is the reality of tournament poker. Cast aside your illusions that this so-called "sport" can become mainstream so long as the troubling issues continue and prevail. At the very least, be forewarned.

Conclusion
So, you wanna' be a tournament pro? It all sounds glamorous. Flying around the world, playing in the big poker events, winning trophies and cashing big, even getting on television.

Okay, now wake up from your dream. If you still have any lingering aspirations of becoming a tournament professional -- think again. If you're still not convinced, spend some time at a major poker tournament. Look at the faces of those around you. How many are smiling? How many are happy with their lives and what they are doing? Those smiling self-confident faces are few and far between. In tournament poker, there is no Santa Claus. There is no Easter Bunny. There is no "pot of gold" at the end of the imaginary rainbow. There is instead a lot of deceit, deception, and depravity.

 

[Agent 0659]

I have always heard that most of these guys are totally busted. TJ CLoutier being one of the biggest I have heard. Apparently he has a little leak at the craps table. :scared I have heard he always needs backers. How long will the bubble of these big tournies last???

 

[Agent 0659]

Daniel Neganeaus response


My Take On Nolan's Column
By Daniel Negreanu

I'd like to add a few tidbits that go right along with what Nolan has already covered: The majority of tournament players live "score to score". They live excessively lavishly when they hit a big score, and are broke the rest of the time.

Most of the tournament players don't take the time to understand how much each tournament is worth to them. I wrote a column a while ago called, Play Hours Not Results. In it, I explained how growing up I was never concerned with my results on any given day, I was simply concerned with getting 40 hours of "work" in at the tables. I knew that "in the long run" I'd earn $44 for every hour I spent at the tables.

A simple concept, that can be applied to tournaments as well. Example:

$1060 buy-in
tough field
100 players
In a typical situation like this one, I would expect roughly a return of $2000 on average, making the tournament worth $940 to me. Tournament time will probably average 4.5 hours of playing time and another 1.5 hours of break and preparation time. A total of 6 hours for $940 an hour (or $156.67 ph).
So whether or not I win the tournament or am the first one out, I've earned $940. If I win $45,000, I've in actuality only earned $940. The typical tournament player fails to understand this simple truth.

The typical player puts so much added emotional stress on themselves, always believing, "I have to make a score. Then everything will be all right." Rather than take a scientific approach, they are banking on a "lucky" score to rid them of all their financial worries. However, the "score" is usually just a temporary relief of the stresses they'll soon face once again.

In fact, in most cases the score might just get them out of the hole, needing yet ANOTHER score to have any kind of a bankroll.

On the flip side, you have the successful cash game players. They don't make big scores. On the surface, it may appear as though "they" are "grinding it out". When in fact, the opposite is closer to true.

The cash game player is building a solid foundation. With an adequate bankroll, he is avoiding the emotional swings the tournament players typically suffer through. Sure it doesn't appear glamorous. No trophies, no accolades, no "pictures in magazines." None of that... all they are left with is a house that is paid for... a car that is paid for... children put through school, and finally, a social life of their own choice.

In several columns I've made reference to this. I've said all along that the "real" players are in the side games. The true greats are players you'll rarely hear of, and for the most part, that's exactly how they prefer it.

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

thanks for posting agent

 

[arrow]

This write up hits the circuit perfect. I have been playing on tour for about 5 years, i, like nloan have seen so much wrong doing with losers it makes kosar look like an angel and why do i even get upset at him.I quit loaning money out 2 years ago . This year after i lost 10,000 in the main event and a railbird asked me if i had an extra 200 when i was walking through the crowd, unbelievable, i wanted to deck him. and nolan is right you would'nt believe the big so called names who are backed and borrow money just to get in these tournaments. NICE ARTICLE GUYS

 

[Taximike]

Yes i agree, anyone interested in making a living playing tournament poker need not apply; however as Daniel alluded to, there is plenty of good money to be made playing in the live action "cash" games. I myself have been doing it, in Akron, OH of all places, for the past thirteen years. That is not to say tournaments aren't worth it or not fun to play. They're a helluva lot more fun than the lottery.

 

[Agent 0659]

I was hoping to see you in this one Arrow. How long do you think this "craze" will last. The money cant last forever can it? I think it can for the WSOP but for the week in week out type stuff it has to go dry. Maybe not!

 

[yyz]

The fad already hit it's peak.

This last WSOP, they expected 1,500 more people than they got, based on the fever going around. Even though it was still the largest field, it was less than they thought they would get.

We will see if next year brings even fewer players to the "Big Gig". Plus, now there is a tourny on every street corner! The over saturation has to take it's toll, right?

 

[Miklos]

So You Wanna' Be a Tournament Pro? Fuhgetaboutit!
By Nolan Dalla
(All Rights Reserved)

Thanks for the great read Agent 0659.A very informative look at the world of Tournament Poker,very interesting!

 

[Agent 0659]

So You Wanna' Be a Tournament Pro? Fuhgetaboutit!
By Nolan Dalla
(All Rights Reserved)

Thanks for the great read Agent 0659.A very informative look at the world of Tournament Poker,very interesting!

Glad to do it! Wasnt sure if anyone would actually take the time to read it cause its so long :mj07:

 

[dirty ernie]

Glad to do it! Wasnt sure if anyone would actually take the time to read it cause its so long :mj07:

Not only took the time to read it, but looking for some more of the same. Thanks for posting that Agent. Don't hesitate to post when you have anything like that. There's definately an audience for it.

 

[Agent 0659]

Have lots more, will post.

 

[Agent 0659]

I have read SEVERAL places that the goofball that won the WSOP and 7.5 million left a $100 tip for the dealers. :mj07: WTF is that?

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

I have read SEVERAL places that the goofball that won the WSOP and 7.5 million left a $100 tip for the dealers. :mj07: WTF is that?

there has been numerous discussions on this elsewhere. the tips were already taken out by the players with their entrance fees. the dealers were taken care of already. would I have tipped had I monied substantially? yes. can i fault this guy for not doing it? no. Harrah's ripped the chit out of the players this year, and you can ask any of them and they know it. They got severely ripped off if you look at it mathematically. i'm a big proponent of tipping, but to be fair the players prize pool was significantly dipped into by harrah's, their staff, and the dealers. the players actually got ripped off in the scheme of things. yes i certainly would have tipped, but no i cannot fault others for not doing it.

look at it from this perspective. when you go to a restaurant and they automatically add 18% to your bill, do you tip more. Some do some don't, but the point is that the tip is already included on your bill. It's your option whether or not you want to add more, BUT the waiter has already been taken care of. And according to all i've talked to in the grand scheme of things, the players got hit by the prize pools.

gl

 

[Agent 0659]

Seems fair BDB but why smack the dealers in the face by tipping a hundred dollars?Thats like .08 cents a piece.

 

[Agent 0659]

Card Player Magazine
Card Player Magazine Volume 18, No. 19


The Top 10 Reasons Not to Go Pro- Food for thought for wannabe professional poker players
by Thomas Keller


The intent of this column is not to dissuade everyone who aspires to be a professional poker player from becoming one. However, with the recent influx of new players, especially the younger ones, more and more players seem to be contemplating a professional poker career. I think a lot of these new players who are aspiring to be pros have not carefully weighed the advantages and disadvantages of making poker a career, to pursuing a more traditional job. So, without further delay, here are my top 10 reasons not to go pro, and I hope I make David Letterman proud, although my list is serious in nature. Also, please note that the reasons are not listed in any particular order of importance, as I view all of them to be extremely important and worthy of very serious consideration by anyone thinking of becoming a pro poker player.

10. Poker does not provide a stable income. Some people will find this to be a much more serious problem than others, especially players with a big monthly overhead and a smaller initial starting bankroll.

9. You must save a portion of your total net worth as a bankroll to withstand the inevitable swings in poker. Great players will often go on hot streaks, during which they win consistently for months or even years at a time, but even the best players in the world will inevitably run bad. This means that you can?t spend all of the money that you make playing poker (if you are fortunate enough to actually make any money), since you must prepare yourself financially for that inevitable bad streak. Also, if you intend on stepping up the limits that you play, you will have to proportionally increase your bankroll, which means saving more money and spending even less of what you make.

8. The huge financial swings can cause many people great mental anguish.

7. The choice to become a professional poker player can greatly affect all of your personal relationships ? most importantly, those with your spouse or significant other, relatives, and close friends.

6. It can be impossible or very expensive to get health insurance as a poker player. As a result, many serious poker players I know work a full-time or part-time traditional job primarily for the health benefits.

5. Getting loans or credit can be very difficult as a professional poker player. There are few things that a mortgage company likes to see less than ?professional gambler? listed as one?s primary source of income on a tax return. Also, as a professional poker player, expect to be targeted more by the IRS; it just goes with the territory of playing cards for a living.

4. Once you go pro, it can be very hard to go back and get a more traditional job. I personally have never had a traditional job, but I know many players who have gone back and forth between playing poker and working a traditional job, and they all seem to have a lot of difficulty with each transition. I could list millions of reasons why such transitions are difficult, but the main reasons are that playing poker allows people to have an incredible amount of freedom in determining when they work (play poker), and most people find giving up this freedom very difficult to do. Likewise, many players find giving up all the benefits of a traditional job, such as a stable income, consistent schedule, and health benefits, very difficult to do.

3. It can be very hard to make new friends and get involved in new intimate relationships outside of poker once you start playing professionally. Lots of people still attach a negative stigma to gambling and will be hesitant to get involved with a professional gambler, especially on a serious, intimate level. Luckily for me, my wife is comfortable with me being a professional gambler; otherwise, I would have had to change careers years ago. Money comes and goes, but a good woman is hard to find, and if you are lucky enough to find one, poker isn?t worth letting her get away (this also may be true for female poker players looking for a good man, but I personally don?t have any experience in that arena).

2. Playing poker professionally desensitizes you to the value of money. In order to play poker properly, you must desensitize yourself at least partially from the value of money, or you simply will not be a very good poker player. Being desensitized to the value of money can contribute to a host of problems, such as devastating gambling leaks in such areas as sports betting, table games, and slot machines. This desensitization also can contribute to poor money management and irresponsible spending habits. All of these problems can be quite damaging to a person with a traditional job, but are especially devastating to a poker player, who requires a substantial bankroll to play poker. If you have any gambling leaks or bad spending habits, you must address them before becoming a professional poker player, because this desensitization to the value of money will worsen these problems and often generate new ones.

1. If you truly love playing poker, you may not want to play professionally, because that may take the fun out of playing. I am a gamer at heart, and when I first started playing poker seriously I loved to play. I loved actually playing the game. I still enjoy playing the game (more so when I win), but I definitely get different things out of the game now than I did before I played professionally. Now, I thrive on the competition, on playing toe-to-toe with the best players in the world, and on trying to constantly improve my game and keep it on a world-class level. However, the day-to-day playing isn?t nearly as fun to me as it was when I first started and played poker for fun, and not for a living.
I hope that everyone has gotten something out of this column, and that those players who are thinking about playing professionally at least consider these 10 major points before they take the leap.