if true that is a huge victory...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475588009&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1132475588009&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
War haters wont like this much....
- Thread starter Sun Tzu
- Start date
Why wouid you think that 'Iraq war haters' would not be happy if that was true? That's ignorant.
One less terrorist leader the better. It wouldn't change much, if anything, over there though.
All we've heard about is how all these 'top-ranked Al-Qaeda leaders' keep getting killed or arrested. Yet the attacks there only get worse and more frequent.
Eventually everybody will understand that there is not a finite amount of people over there willing to plot against us or blow themselves up. It will be neverending. Get Bin Laden? Won't matter.
al-Zarqawi MAY have been killed? Doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but isn't a negative for sure.
I doubt it's true to begin with. The Jerusalem Post? Whatever the case, it wouldn't matter a whole lot.
One less terrorist leader the better. It wouldn't change much, if anything, over there though.
All we've heard about is how all these 'top-ranked Al-Qaeda leaders' keep getting killed or arrested. Yet the attacks there only get worse and more frequent.
Eventually everybody will understand that there is not a finite amount of people over there willing to plot against us or blow themselves up. It will be neverending. Get Bin Laden? Won't matter.
al-Zarqawi MAY have been killed? Doesn't matter in the scheme of things, but isn't a negative for sure.
I doubt it's true to begin with. The Jerusalem Post? Whatever the case, it wouldn't matter a whole lot.
I agree with your general point, kosar, but killing al-Zarqawi would at leaast be a morale boost to the troops. It's good to have tangible signs of progress like that.
I am interested to see if any of the right wing zealots on this board come in here and dispute your general assertion about Iraq (and the war on Islam in general). If they accept it as true (which it is), then how can the current strategy be justified?
I am interested to see if any of the right wing zealots on this board come in here and dispute your general assertion about Iraq (and the war on Islam in general). If they accept it as true (which it is), then how can the current strategy be justified?
"Eventually everyone will understand that there is not a finite amount of people over there willing to plot against us or blow themselves up. It will be neverending."
How very true.....especially when one considers that most of the resistance over there is simply opposition to the occupation of their country....most of the dudes we're fighting over there wouldn't bother to leave the country and be a legitimate threat to the rest of the planet, and the real threats are simply unchased, namely OBL.....
Not only are you fighting locals there, but you have no containment so whatever area is supposedly cleaned out and secure has to be retaken in the near future from fighters coming in from outside the battlegrounds....
"If they accept it as true (which it is) then how can the current strategy be justified?"
If there really is a strategy it was lost before we ever stepped foot over there.....we didn't even go into battle properly dressed in armor so don't even begin to tell me there was a plan involved running into that $hithole......Custer had about as good a strategy.....
This kind of warfare can go on indefinitely until the US government is forced publicly or financially to withdraw.....happened to Russia in Afghanistan and it happened to our own memory challenged administration forgetting a real easy lesson Vietnam taught us about big dogs getting overextended in a long, expensive guerilla war....
Right now the only "justification" is the thought of withdrawing and having over 2000 troops deaths to have been in vain, as the current administration and it's stubborn supporters adhere to.....as if throwing another couple thousand bodies into the grave are actually going to make a difference considering this will play out like Israel/Palestine and the region will be just as unstable as when we first arrived....
Looks more to me about like some gambler chasing his losses and throwing good money after bad.
How very true.....especially when one considers that most of the resistance over there is simply opposition to the occupation of their country....most of the dudes we're fighting over there wouldn't bother to leave the country and be a legitimate threat to the rest of the planet, and the real threats are simply unchased, namely OBL.....
Not only are you fighting locals there, but you have no containment so whatever area is supposedly cleaned out and secure has to be retaken in the near future from fighters coming in from outside the battlegrounds....
"If they accept it as true (which it is) then how can the current strategy be justified?"
If there really is a strategy it was lost before we ever stepped foot over there.....we didn't even go into battle properly dressed in armor so don't even begin to tell me there was a plan involved running into that $hithole......Custer had about as good a strategy.....
This kind of warfare can go on indefinitely until the US government is forced publicly or financially to withdraw.....happened to Russia in Afghanistan and it happened to our own memory challenged administration forgetting a real easy lesson Vietnam taught us about big dogs getting overextended in a long, expensive guerilla war....
Right now the only "justification" is the thought of withdrawing and having over 2000 troops deaths to have been in vain, as the current administration and it's stubborn supporters adhere to.....as if throwing another couple thousand bodies into the grave are actually going to make a difference considering this will play out like Israel/Palestine and the region will be just as unstable as when we first arrived....
Looks more to me about like some gambler chasing his losses and throwing good money after bad.
One problem with our political system seems to be that for one party to prosper, the other party has to fail. Partisanship makes it generally unlikely that we will be able to rejoyce in majority about any major advance in civilization. As long as the Republicans are in power, it behooves the Democrats to have negativity in all areas - economy, military, education, etc. And, before you ocelot lovers get your panties in a bunch, the same thing would be true if Republicans were on the outside looking in a Democratic power base. When you think about this, if correct, it means that we will have this same situation for a long time. I think that if you take a look at politics today, you will see this huge cloud of negativity that envelopes both sides.
""I am interested to see if any of the right wing zealots on this board come in here and dispute your general assertion about Iraq (and the war on Islam in general)."""
interesting how the extreme left tends to frame their questions....
hmmmm..a bit of a broad stroke,wouldn`t you say,nick?...
what "war on islam?"....
i think you mean the world`s struggle to deal with the "radical elements" of islam?....
from france...to spain...to england...the netherlands.....to russia...to indonesia....to parts of africa....to the middle east....
the french aren`t attacking islam...the dutch...the christians in africa and indonesia....beheadings and kidnapping in pakistan....
and the hindus in india are under some horrible attacks of late...
won`t see that in your local paper...because the mainstream media doesn`t want you to see it....they want you focused on valerie plame and "scooter" libby...
a little example...
"""Terrorists have set off at least three bomb blasts in India’s capital city.
Related Link: Robi Sen reports that there were reports of a noted al-Qaeda bomb expert having been in New Delhi in the past week.
Confirmed reports of bomb blasts in India’s capital New Delhi just 3 days beofre the major hindu festival of Diwali. Police confirmed blasts in the hindu market areas of Pahargunj, Okhla, Govind Puri, Gol Market and Sarojini Nagar.
Atleast 10 have been confirmed dead in the Pahargunj Market alone. Quoting Rediff.com:
Ten people are feared killed and six injured in a blast which occurred in the bustling Paharganj area of New Delhi on Saturday.
Being a Saturday, people had thronged the Paharganj market to shop for Diwali. Initial reports said the blast caused major commotion among the crowd.
Meanwhile, the six injured people have been hospitalised.
The fire services reported a “medium level” blast in Pahargunj where 10 innocents lost their lives.
—
FIRST LEAD
1) Latest field reports indicate an addition 20 confirmed dead from the various blasts in addition to the 10 at Pahargunj. An estimate puts the overall casuality figure at 75.
2) Atleast 6 blasts confirmed, in hindu majority market areas. 75 feared dead.
—
SECOND LEAD
1) Police declares Red Alert through out New Delhi and the NCT regions.
2) Gurgaon & Noida on high alert.
3) 6 confirmed blasts in the past 45 minutes (since 17:30 Indian Standard Time)
—
THIRD LEAD
1) One of the blasts was in a public transport bus.
2) Another confirmed report of a bomb being found and difused in a bank in the Chandni Chowk region of Delhi City.
—
FOURTH LEAD
1) Atleast 3 bodies recovered from massive explosion in the Sarojini Nagar market place. Anger building among the people as the city’s festive spirit faces extremist islam’s attack.
2) Blast’s reported in Srinagar, the summer capital of Indian Kashmir. Atleast 15 injured.
3) Atleast 6 confirmed blasts in New Delhi’s hindu market places prior to the hindu festival of Diwali.
—
FIFTH LEAD
1) Flames under control in the Sarojini Nagar area. Fires had sprung up after the massive blast across the market place.
2) Sarojini Market being shut down by authorities, area being evacuated. Early reports of another bomb being discovered/difused by the police.
—
SIXTH LEAD
1) Nearly confirmed 50 dead, 125 injured in 6 blasts in New Delhi.
A series of explosions rocked busy shopping markets in the heart of the national Capital this evening.
Several persons are feared to have died in the serial blasts.
The first blast took place in the main bazaar of Paharganj near the New Delhi Railway Station at around 5:30 pm (IST).
According to eyewitnesses, scores of people have been injured in the attack.
“I was talking to a client when the blast took place. The blast took place about 20 metres away. Right after the blast, people were running here and there,” said Sajjan Singh, shopkeeper, Paharganj.
Security tightened
Around half an hour later, at 6:05 pm (IST), the second explosion took place in south Delhi’s busy Sarojini Nagar market.
A major fire has broken out and police have now closed the market. Several people have reportedly been killed in the explosion.
Another explosion has been reported from Govindpuri in south Delhi.
A red alert has been sounded and police have deployed additional forces across the Capital. People have been urged to remain calm and move away from crowded markets.
[Srirangan on October 29th, 2005 at 22:00 ]
This is a shameful act that the terrorists have committed, just like they do elsewhere in the world. Bomb the place and run away. Or have some innocent, gullible young lad take care of it. Or just die for the cause of some radical’s beliefs.
We have got to put a stop to this political goodwill with our neighbor unless and until we have a clean chit from them about their support to terrorist organizations like LeT or whatever its latest name is.
Today it is Delhi, tomorrow it could be other cities. Bombay has already experienced it a couple of times.
The need of the day is elimination, nothing else.
[The PM has said that “India will win the battle against terrorism” but this is not the time for merely pious words, or draconian laws passed by way of a knee-jerk reaction that don’t effectively combat terrorism but do infringe upon the civil liberties of the rest of us. We have seen both of these before, and they are not good enough.""""
this stuff just happened....if i hadn`t searched the net,i wouldn`t have known....
half the crap these radicals are perpetrating on innocents around the world goes unnoticed....
"our" war on "islam"?.....right....tell that to their dead palestinian and sunni brothers at that wedding in amman,jordan....
interesting how the extreme left tends to frame their questions....
hmmmm..a bit of a broad stroke,wouldn`t you say,nick?...
what "war on islam?"....
i think you mean the world`s struggle to deal with the "radical elements" of islam?....
from france...to spain...to england...the netherlands.....to russia...to indonesia....to parts of africa....to the middle east....
the french aren`t attacking islam...the dutch...the christians in africa and indonesia....beheadings and kidnapping in pakistan....
and the hindus in india are under some horrible attacks of late...
won`t see that in your local paper...because the mainstream media doesn`t want you to see it....they want you focused on valerie plame and "scooter" libby...
a little example...
"""Terrorists have set off at least three bomb blasts in India’s capital city.
Related Link: Robi Sen reports that there were reports of a noted al-Qaeda bomb expert having been in New Delhi in the past week.
Confirmed reports of bomb blasts in India’s capital New Delhi just 3 days beofre the major hindu festival of Diwali. Police confirmed blasts in the hindu market areas of Pahargunj, Okhla, Govind Puri, Gol Market and Sarojini Nagar.
Atleast 10 have been confirmed dead in the Pahargunj Market alone. Quoting Rediff.com:
Ten people are feared killed and six injured in a blast which occurred in the bustling Paharganj area of New Delhi on Saturday.
Being a Saturday, people had thronged the Paharganj market to shop for Diwali. Initial reports said the blast caused major commotion among the crowd.
Meanwhile, the six injured people have been hospitalised.
The fire services reported a “medium level” blast in Pahargunj where 10 innocents lost their lives.
—
FIRST LEAD
1) Latest field reports indicate an addition 20 confirmed dead from the various blasts in addition to the 10 at Pahargunj. An estimate puts the overall casuality figure at 75.
2) Atleast 6 blasts confirmed, in hindu majority market areas. 75 feared dead.
—
SECOND LEAD
1) Police declares Red Alert through out New Delhi and the NCT regions.
2) Gurgaon & Noida on high alert.
3) 6 confirmed blasts in the past 45 minutes (since 17:30 Indian Standard Time)
—
THIRD LEAD
1) One of the blasts was in a public transport bus.
2) Another confirmed report of a bomb being found and difused in a bank in the Chandni Chowk region of Delhi City.
—
FOURTH LEAD
1) Atleast 3 bodies recovered from massive explosion in the Sarojini Nagar market place. Anger building among the people as the city’s festive spirit faces extremist islam’s attack.
2) Blast’s reported in Srinagar, the summer capital of Indian Kashmir. Atleast 15 injured.
3) Atleast 6 confirmed blasts in New Delhi’s hindu market places prior to the hindu festival of Diwali.
—
FIFTH LEAD
1) Flames under control in the Sarojini Nagar area. Fires had sprung up after the massive blast across the market place.
2) Sarojini Market being shut down by authorities, area being evacuated. Early reports of another bomb being discovered/difused by the police.
—
SIXTH LEAD
1) Nearly confirmed 50 dead, 125 injured in 6 blasts in New Delhi.
A series of explosions rocked busy shopping markets in the heart of the national Capital this evening.
Several persons are feared to have died in the serial blasts.
The first blast took place in the main bazaar of Paharganj near the New Delhi Railway Station at around 5:30 pm (IST).
According to eyewitnesses, scores of people have been injured in the attack.
“I was talking to a client when the blast took place. The blast took place about 20 metres away. Right after the blast, people were running here and there,” said Sajjan Singh, shopkeeper, Paharganj.
Security tightened
Around half an hour later, at 6:05 pm (IST), the second explosion took place in south Delhi’s busy Sarojini Nagar market.
A major fire has broken out and police have now closed the market. Several people have reportedly been killed in the explosion.
Another explosion has been reported from Govindpuri in south Delhi.
A red alert has been sounded and police have deployed additional forces across the Capital. People have been urged to remain calm and move away from crowded markets.
[Srirangan on October 29th, 2005 at 22:00 ]
This is a shameful act that the terrorists have committed, just like they do elsewhere in the world. Bomb the place and run away. Or have some innocent, gullible young lad take care of it. Or just die for the cause of some radical’s beliefs.
We have got to put a stop to this political goodwill with our neighbor unless and until we have a clean chit from them about their support to terrorist organizations like LeT or whatever its latest name is.
Today it is Delhi, tomorrow it could be other cities. Bombay has already experienced it a couple of times.
The need of the day is elimination, nothing else.
[The PM has said that “India will win the battle against terrorism” but this is not the time for merely pious words, or draconian laws passed by way of a knee-jerk reaction that don’t effectively combat terrorism but do infringe upon the civil liberties of the rest of us. We have seen both of these before, and they are not good enough.""""
this stuff just happened....if i hadn`t searched the net,i wouldn`t have known....
half the crap these radicals are perpetrating on innocents around the world goes unnoticed....
"our" war on "islam"?.....right....tell that to their dead palestinian and sunni brothers at that wedding in amman,jordan....
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and the netherlands...."their" war on islam isn`t going very well either...
the most liberal people in the world have had their society turned,in some instances,into an armed camp..........................................................
"Muslim fanatics terrorise a nation."
"""And if I haven’t mentioned it lately, Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a heroine of the highest magnitude.""
A FILM about gay rights should hardly raise an eyebrow in The Netherlands, which for centuries has prided itself as a beacon of freedom of expression and was the first country to legalise gay marriage.....
But when Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee turned Dutch MP, started making a new film about the oppression of homosexuals under Islam, the threat to everyone taking part was deemed so great that she decided there would be no faces shown on screen and no end credits and that the entire production team would remain anonymous.
Ali, a “lapsed Muslim” who revealed this week that she had finished the script, lives in a safe house under 24-hour protection.
The precaution is as wise as the courage is extraordinary: Theo van Gogh, the director of Ali’s previous film, about domestic violence under Islam, was killed — repeatedly shot and almost decapitated in broad daylight in the streets of Amsterdam by an Islamic extremist.
Impaled on a knife in van Gogh’s chest was a five-page note declaring holy war on The Netherlands and threatening death to other public figures deemed “enemies of Islam”.
A year after his murder, The Netherlands is a country transformed. Previously, only the Queen and Prime Minister had police protection, and ministers cycled to their ministries.
Now, many politicians, writers and artists are considered to be in such danger that they have permanent armed guards and are driven around in bomb-proof armoured cars. The Interior Ministry has set up a special unit assessing death threats from Islamic extremists and providing protection squads.""
damned dutch imperialists...
this isn`t "Islam"...it`s a death cult...
the most liberal people in the world have had their society turned,in some instances,into an armed camp..........................................................
"Muslim fanatics terrorise a nation."
"""And if I haven’t mentioned it lately, Dutch MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a heroine of the highest magnitude.""
A FILM about gay rights should hardly raise an eyebrow in The Netherlands, which for centuries has prided itself as a beacon of freedom of expression and was the first country to legalise gay marriage.....
But when Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali refugee turned Dutch MP, started making a new film about the oppression of homosexuals under Islam, the threat to everyone taking part was deemed so great that she decided there would be no faces shown on screen and no end credits and that the entire production team would remain anonymous.
Ali, a “lapsed Muslim” who revealed this week that she had finished the script, lives in a safe house under 24-hour protection.
The precaution is as wise as the courage is extraordinary: Theo van Gogh, the director of Ali’s previous film, about domestic violence under Islam, was killed — repeatedly shot and almost decapitated in broad daylight in the streets of Amsterdam by an Islamic extremist.
Impaled on a knife in van Gogh’s chest was a five-page note declaring holy war on The Netherlands and threatening death to other public figures deemed “enemies of Islam”.
A year after his murder, The Netherlands is a country transformed. Previously, only the Queen and Prime Minister had police protection, and ministers cycled to their ministries.
Now, many politicians, writers and artists are considered to be in such danger that they have permanent armed guards and are driven around in bomb-proof armoured cars. The Interior Ministry has set up a special unit assessing death threats from Islamic extremists and providing protection squads.""
damned dutch imperialists...
this isn`t "Islam"...it`s a death cult...
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right wing zealots
right wing zealots
Nicks comment got me thinking.
While it is quite easy to define far left liberals--I am trying to think what far right side would consist of.
1st group that would come to mind would be the neo nazi/militia element but since they are against all forms of gov can't see them being on one side are the other.
Could someone give examples of far right poilticians/zealots and their philosophies they find detrimental to society?
right wing zealots
Nicks comment got me thinking.
While it is quite easy to define far left liberals--I am trying to think what far right side would consist of.
1st group that would come to mind would be the neo nazi/militia element but since they are against all forms of gov can't see them being on one side are the other.
Could someone give examples of far right poilticians/zealots and their philosophies they find detrimental to society?
- Feb 12, 2000
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I think Rush Limbaugh and Phil Valentine would be considered right wingers and, by definition, they are definitely zealots. I simply can not listen to them.
zealot
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
zealot
a. One who is zealous, especially excessively so.
b. A fanatically committed person.
Ashcroft would be pretty far reaching right winger, who believes in no free speach and censoring the press.
Pat Robertson, Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheeny all are right wing conservative zealots. The Republican Praty is no longer in the mold of what the original thinkers had when they coined conservativism but instead been hijacked and turned into a neo-conservative party.
Neo-Conservative - Someone who believes in state-capitalism and state-socialism, as long as it is the "conservative" type (i.e. he gets credit for it), the right of the state over the individual, the need for the state to intervene and control all aspects of a person?s life. He thinks your life and property belong to the state, and a person's only purpose is to serve the state.
Neo-Conservative - Someone who believes in state-capitalism and state-socialism, as long as it is the "conservative" type (i.e. he gets credit for it), the right of the state over the individual, the need for the state to intervene and control all aspects of a person?s life. He thinks your life and property belong to the state, and a person's only purpose is to serve the state.
I guess for liberals the term "loons" is often used. Obviously not every conservative person who posts on this board is a zealot. In fact, most aren't. If you look at the tone people use when they post, you can probably tell who steps over the edge on either side.
Clearly, the war in Iraq (as it stands right now) is against those who want an Islamic theocracy. The question (which I sure as hell don't have an answer for), is what does the general population of Iraq want? Do they want a market-based, secular government that is led in some way by America or an Islamic state in the mold of Iran? I've never been to Iraq and I am skeptical of both Western and Islamic media reports, so I don't know the answer.
Also, I hate to cry over spilled milk but this is exactly what many people who followed Islamic-American relations before 9/11 predicted when we went into Iraq in the first place. The Islamic movement was stronger than most Americans realized and the occupation of a prominent Arab country was enough to trigger a full scale attempt to re-draw the map. If only we would have listened to Pat Buchanan...
Clearly, the war in Iraq (as it stands right now) is against those who want an Islamic theocracy. The question (which I sure as hell don't have an answer for), is what does the general population of Iraq want? Do they want a market-based, secular government that is led in some way by America or an Islamic state in the mold of Iran? I've never been to Iraq and I am skeptical of both Western and Islamic media reports, so I don't know the answer.
Also, I hate to cry over spilled milk but this is exactly what many people who followed Islamic-American relations before 9/11 predicted when we went into Iraq in the first place. The Islamic movement was stronger than most Americans realized and the occupation of a prominent Arab country was enough to trigger a full scale attempt to re-draw the map. If only we would have listened to Pat Buchanan...
DTB:
Here is a litmus test for right wing zealotry.
-People who don't believe in evolution.
-People who choose their politicians based on religious beliefs.
-People who will always adhere to a religious text when taking one side of a major public issue.
(By the way, I'm trying to describe people who support an Islamic theocracy)
Here is a litmus test for right wing zealotry.
-People who don't believe in evolution.
-People who choose their politicians based on religious beliefs.
-People who will always adhere to a religious text when taking one side of a major public issue.
(By the way, I'm trying to describe people who support an Islamic theocracy)
Strange we have Saddam and about 50 out of 52 from the deck of cards. But the killing has increased. I wonder if we will ever understand it's not going to stop. We need fresh thinkers.
i don`t believe in "creative design"....and i`m no religious fanatic.....
but,i do believe in tradition.....and reality.....and not changing the "evolution" of and origins of this country....because it doesn`t conform to some liberal,agnostic agenda...
i don`t believe that the word "christmas" is offensive to any but the true "radicals" in this society........or in changing state seals because there`s a cross included in the emblem....
i do believe that this country was founded on a basic judeo-christian ethic and philosophy....that`s fact...
yes...we were horrible to the native american....yes,slavery was horrible....shameful....
but...that`s our history.....let`s keep it legit.....we`ve come a long way...
i don`t believe that history should be re-written based on some politically correct radical new age philosophy run amuck....
what nick is describing is the extreme right wing....
what i described is the extreme left wing....
thankfully...most of us fall somewhere in between....
btw...to try and draw a correlation between extreme right wingers in this country....some of whom are admittedly nutty....and what`s happening in radical segments of islam....is such a ridiculous analogy....such a stretch....
it`s like amnesty international bitching about naked pictures of detainees...and the mishandling of the koran.....and standing mute on the assasinations(via headshot) and beheadings of christian schoolgirls in indonesia....bus bombings...hotel bombings..market bombings.....funeral and mosque bombings....
not to mention over 3,200 attacks around the world since 9/11....
you can`t win the moral equivalency argument....
but,i do believe in tradition.....and reality.....and not changing the "evolution" of and origins of this country....because it doesn`t conform to some liberal,agnostic agenda...
i don`t believe that the word "christmas" is offensive to any but the true "radicals" in this society........or in changing state seals because there`s a cross included in the emblem....
i do believe that this country was founded on a basic judeo-christian ethic and philosophy....that`s fact...
yes...we were horrible to the native american....yes,slavery was horrible....shameful....
but...that`s our history.....let`s keep it legit.....we`ve come a long way...
i don`t believe that history should be re-written based on some politically correct radical new age philosophy run amuck....
what nick is describing is the extreme right wing....
what i described is the extreme left wing....
thankfully...most of us fall somewhere in between....
btw...to try and draw a correlation between extreme right wingers in this country....some of whom are admittedly nutty....and what`s happening in radical segments of islam....is such a ridiculous analogy....such a stretch....
it`s like amnesty international bitching about naked pictures of detainees...and the mishandling of the koran.....and standing mute on the assasinations(via headshot) and beheadings of christian schoolgirls in indonesia....bus bombings...hotel bombings..market bombings.....funeral and mosque bombings....
not to mention over 3,200 attacks around the world since 9/11....
you can`t win the moral equivalency argument....
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Woman you forgot we were nasty to our woman. Hell they were not even included in writing the Constitution. So who knows what there input would have brought. But of course they were not allowed to vote till 100 years ago. And still today most work for 20% less then men on same job. So we still have not learn. The few and the mighty still want it there way. We still have work to do here at home. Thats why nation building other places in world should be off our schedule.
Nick Douglas said:
ah, Mr. Enlightened returns with an anti-Christian post....if only one who denounced bigotry could recognize it in himself
welcome back
Looks the the American Right is coming apart before our eyes. Please, Conservatives, can't you all just "get along." What would Ronald Reagan do.
