Family Upset Over Marine's Body Arriving As Freight

Chadman

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Not only does this administration feel the need to cut money for Veterans benefits, now the military (under their watch) seems to be saving money by shipping our fallen heroes back home as cargo.

And conservatives continue to label democrats as unpatriotic and unsupportive of troops. Interesting. Anything to protect the tax cuts for the upper 1% right? It's all a matter of perspective, I guess.

------------------------------------

Taken from a San Diego News Channel Web site...

Marine Bodies Sent To Families On Commercial Airliners

POSTED: 4:46 pm PST December 9, 2005
UPDATED: 6:20 pm PST December 9, 2005

SAN DIEGO -- There's controversy over how the military is transporting the bodies of service members killed overseas, 10News reported.

A local family said fallen soldiers and Marines deserve better and that one would think our war heroes are being transported with dignity, care and respect. It said one would think upon arrival in their hometowns they are greeted with honor. But unfortunately, the family said that is just not the case.

Dead heroes are supposed to come home with their coffins draped with the American flag -- greeted by a color guard.

But in reality, many are arriving as freight on commercial airliners -- stuffed in the belly of a plane with suitcases and other cargo.

John Holley and his wife, Stacey, were stunned when they found out the body of their only child, Matthew, who died in Iraq last month, would be arriving at Lindbergh Field as freight.

"When someone dies in combat, they need to give them due respect they deserve for (the) sacrifice they made," said John Holley.

John and Stacey Holley, who were both in the Army, made some calls, and with the help of U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer, Matthew was greeted with honor and respect.

"Our familiarity with military protocol and things of that sort allowed us to kind of put our foot down -- we're not sure other parents have that same knowledge," said Stacey Holley.

The Holleys now want to make sure every fallen hero gets the proper welcome.

The bodies of dead service members arrive at Dover Air Force Base.

From that point, they are sent to their families on commercial airliners.

Reporters from 10News called the Defense Department for an explanation. A representative said she did not know why this is happening.
 

kosar

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I'm surprised this even came to light. They're more secretive about our returning dead then they are about our torture camps in Europe.
 

Chadman

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Not only this...if any of our heroes are able to visit home, they have to pay their own way now, to here them and their families tell it. What has happened? I thought we were supposed to support our soldiers in simple ways like transportation, body and vehicle armor, sticking to length of enlistment agreements, and fulfilling benefit plans.

How times have changed.
 

CHARLESMANSON

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The "doom and gloom" gang chimes in again lol. This is exactly why it's hard for me to spend time in here anymore. Nothing but negative bullshit day in and day out. Constant whining and blaming. Man it must suck to be you Chadman and Kosar. I'll send you two some prozac ok?

So sending a dead soldier home with freight was Bush's decision right? man you guys are desperate. Daily Bush bashing in Madjacks lol. Do you liberals ever do anything besides sit on the sideline and whine and complain and point fingers? Nice life. :) Glad I'm not you.

I can see it now. Bush calls up the pentagon and says...."Hey my administration needs to save some money, let's cut costs by targeting fallen troops return flights home". How utterly rediculous.

BTW Chadman my brother-in-law returned home from Iraq on a C-130 and paid no airfare. I guess Bush let one squeek thru the cracks. Enjoy your crybaby finger-pointing session, sorry to interrupt.
 

djv

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Charlie you don't think it had any thing to do with those pitcures of flag draped coffins that the Pentigon didn't want folks to see. It is strange someone let this get started. And it is wrong period. And first thing Bush can do is state it wont happen again. And take about three pay grades away from whom ever order it.
 

Chadman

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I didn't say it was Bush's decision, Charles. Not that you care to stick to what somebody actually types. I said the military did it. But, to extrapolate, he is the Commander in Chief of the military, so he does bear some responsibility for the situation, or at least someone needs to explain it better than:

"A representative said she did not know why this is happening."
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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A question if I may. How do you think bodies are transported.
If by commercial airliner --what are options if not in 1st class or economy section?
Interesting on search of topic on those reporting--
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dr. freeze

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veterans benefits are a joke, i would rather not go to the doctor and die in peace than go to the VA and receive treatment

and people want more of this socialized medicine lol
 

kosar

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dr. freeze said:
veterans benefits are a joke, i would rather not go to the doctor and die in peace than go to the VA and receive treatment

and people want more of this socialized medicine lol

I agree that the VA hospitals are a joke and it is very sad.

Interesting take, though. Naturally you don't think more government money should be spent there.

I guess it's easy to take this stance when there's no chance you'll ever end up in one.
 

dr. freeze

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kosar said:
I agree that the VA hospitals are a joke and it is very sad.

Interesting take, though. Naturally you don't think more government money should be spent there.

I guess it's easy to take this stance when there's no chance you'll ever end up in one.

actually i work in one right now

do my best to do as much good as i can,, but unfortunately some of my colleagues i work with are nincompoops, many of which have been sued so many times, they can get no other jobs (insurance companies won't take them and you can't sue the VA)

as far as giving them benefits, i look at it this way: we should provide full term benefits of highest quality to those who are wounded/psychologically disturbed in battle -- and in doing so you will need to pay staff competitively....for the rest of them, i see no need to give them bad health care (which many of them have no idea they are getting) but instead if they are able to work and provide for their own health care, let them do as the general population does...

then you save lots of money and can also provide for those who need it most with QUALITY, instead of this garbage that all are getting now....any way you look at it, this plan is 10 times better than the status quo and it is cheaper

also i would do away with 75% of the administrators in the VA system who do nothing but harass me, and pay staff on a competitive rather than tenured pay scale
 
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kosar

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dr. freeze said:
actually i work in one right now

do my best to do as much good as i can,, but unfortunately some of my colleagues i work with are nincompoops, many of which have been sued so many times, they can get no other jobs (insurance companies won't take them and you can't sue the VA)

as far as giving them benefits, i look at it this way: we should provide full term benefits of highest quality to those who are wounded/psychologically disturbed in battle -- and in doing so you will need to pay staff competitively....for the rest of them, i see no need to give them bad health care (which many of them have no idea they are getting) but instead if they are able to work and provide for their own health care, let them do as the general population does...

then you save lots of money and can also provide for those who need it most with QUALITY, instead of this garbage that all are getting now....any way you look at it, this plan is 10 times better than the status quo and it is cheaper

also i would do away with 75% of the administrators in the VA system who do nothing but harass me, and pay staff on a competitive rather than tenured pay scale

Obviously you knew that I meant that you'd never end up at one as a patient.

That said, it's admirable that you are helping out there. They are the most depressing, shanty 'hospitals' known to man. I've been to at least a half dozen of them for various reasons and it has always been difficult to hold back tears seeing how our wounded/mentally disabled vets, or vets in general got 'taken care of.'

Your point about 'for the rest of them' seems equivical. You seem to be saying that those not disabled should receive nothing more than anybody else in the country. I don't agree with that. VA benefits are one of the things that recruiters use to get people to sign up and possibly die. At worst, the soldier lives a life of poverty, albeit with a steady job, with only the risk of some day dying.

With my short 4 years in the army I have no VA benefits, so i'm not slanting this on any personal basis.

I don't doubt for a second that 75% of the administrators could be cut with no real adverse effect. That's a shame, but to somehow weave the VA system back to some 'socialistic' health care system is ridiculous.

If not for better government funding, how exactly would you improve the conditions of these VA hospitals that these service people so richly deserve?

The VA hospital system is a disgrace.
 

dr. freeze

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kosar said:
If not for better government funding, how exactly would you improve the conditions of these VA hospitals that these service people so richly deserve?

The VA hospital system is a disgrace.

Cut 75% of the administrators

Pay the rest and the staff a higher salary and more competitively instead of with tenure (the pay scale is absolutely ridiculous and does not reward hard work or efficiency as one may imagine)

Institute a campaign for "paid" volunteerism. Cut Social security for those who can work and give guys like DJV money to help which would more than make up for the money that would be cut out of their paycheck (DJV, you could get off your rocker and make more money than you do now AND help the vets like you wish for in many of your posts). In turn, you will get good men who are rotting away in bitterness out and about contributing to one of the most worthy causes they can contribute.

I can just see ol' DJV pushing some hero into Dr. Freeze's office for quality care. And Clem is out mowing the grass calling in his picks while working on his suntan on the lawnmower.

Update the facilities. Use money saved from cutting administrators. And

Again, push for volunteerism. Actually give volunteers responsibility (you can do this if you eliminate the administrators). This will make their work seem more worthwhile and you will get more of them.

I see lots of volunteers but there could be so much more, and those that i see daily helping out have faces of joy, and are living a great retired life. Contrast this with those who do not stay active.

As for eliminating health care for those returning with no disability, i say give them care for 5 years or so, then let them get it on their own. The majority of vets I know are the like that do not expect anything "extra" from the government or people other than appreciation. Obviously, for those who really need it, we can make exceptions, but many do not, and i think it is respect in itself to acknowledge that they are fully functional to provide for themselves. Self-reliance is never a bad thing for one's health or state of mind -- if one is able to maintain that reliance. This is a premise i will stand by.

As for those who are already in the system, grandfather them in.

These are changes i would make, but i doubt any of them will ever take place.
 

kosar

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Freeze,

I think that you often overestimate the reliability of 'volunteerism'(on this issue) and charity(on other issues), but I do appreciate some of the insight on the VA hospital system.

Your 5 year limit for able vets seems reasonable. But how recruiting be affected? One of the big things they stress is that if you become a career soldier, you will have health care for life. Now, to someone like me it made no difference because I knew that would never be the case, but how about the other 80% who are at least considering a career. It might sound like a small point to you or me, but this would really affect recruitment.

Whatever the case, I don't think that cutting VA funds is the answer. That should be the priority, not tax cuts during wartime and not this particular war itself. A lot of lip service, but once our maimed soldiers leave Walter Reed, they are left to deal with a cesspool of health care.

It's not just this admin, every admin that i've been old enough to pay attention to and have an opinion on in 'real-time'(around Reagans second term) have been woeful when it comes to taking care of vets.
 

dr. freeze

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another area we could save in is our prisons....many used to be self-sufficient but no longer are...no they are resorts and in much better shape than VA hospitals

in fact, due to the horrid computer system i am using, i found that prisoners use nicer computers and software than i get at the VA which makes things very difficult (we don't even get to use Microsoft Word or anything like it, but rather when we are editiing reports we have to type in the word we are going to replace, then enter the word to replace it -- after we type in the number of the line we are editing!@%^$@ -- it is the most archaeic thing i have ever seen, and no one in my generation has ever used anything like it)

our gov't is so screwed up with misappropriation it is sickening
 

dr. freeze

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kosar said:
Freeze,

I think that you often overestimate the reliability of 'volunteerism'(on this issue) and charity(on other issues), but I do appreciate some of the insight on the VA hospital system.
.

case in point: check out hospitals built by charity (MD Anderson, Texas Childrens' Hospital, St. Jude's in Memphis) as opposed to ones built by the government (your local VA or county hospital)

as far as the incentive, i really don't think it is a big one, but if it is, maybe it should be looked at...funding could certainly come from a number of different places where 75% of my tax money is misappropratied....taking away my social security would be a good start...give it to the VA health system...if that were a solution, i would be all for it
 

spibble spab

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kosar said:
I'm surprised this even came to light. They're more secretive about our returning dead then they are about our torture camps in Europe.


congratulations for not digging deeper into the facts once again. you are the king of scratching the surface of a story and picking it from under your fingernail and wiping on this messageboard.
 

ImFeklhr

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They are opening a small new VA Clinic around the corner from my office soon, and to be honest it really looks like shoddy work. It's a pretty new building, but basically they are putting it where a dot.com company went belly up a few years ago.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out.
 

kosar

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spibble spab said:
congratulations for not digging deeper into the facts once again. you are the king of scratching the surface of a story and picking it from under your fingernail and wiping on this messageboard.

Do you have additional facts?
 

djv

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Doc you would find that us Vet's help each other out a great deal of the time. And not all V A's operate in a sad way because lack of voulentiers. Our system in Wisky works well. We are tied in with UW Madison medical college and get great care. How ever budget cuts are threating it. When they start to think a Vet with no legs shoud find away to pay for half his wheel chair cost. There is something wrong. I don't care if he has a job. By the way Vets copay for drugs is now like if not same in many case as none vets.
 
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