Feingold stops Patriot Act Renewal in Senate

[Master Capper]

Feingold has pulled together a bipartisan group of Senators to oppose passage of the act in it's current form, which he feels does not yet sufficiently protect our civil liberties.

Feingold finds himself with some unlikely allies, including the Christian Defense Coalition. Notably, the National Rifle Association has not endorsed the Patriot Act renewal that was personally negotiated by Vice President Dick Cheney. The NRA's non-position allows its Senate supporters to oppose renewing the law in its entirety.

"Folks, when we're dealing with civil liberties, you don't compromise them," said Sen. Larry Craig (news, bio, voting record), R-Idaho, an NRA board member.

Other Republicans joining Senator Feingold in opposition include John Sununu of New Hampshire, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, and recently Chuck Hagel of Nebraska.

 

[bjfinste]

I've always been a big fan of Russ. Good to see he was able to put together a group from both sides of the aisle.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Is quite an interesting development--and great timing on NYT front page article on admin doing 500 investigations without court order.
No easy solution--can't say I'm disurbed at 500 people investigated out of 295,000,000. Saw one of these ex NSA people say today that most of investigations here were on people in computer system of terrorist caught abroad. Don't know how much faith I put in his spiel as he said they do not want that fact to come out--but here he was speaking about it-who knows.
My thouhts on matter is I certainly don't want George Orwell Big Brother atmosphere but haven't seen anything in Patriot Act a law abiding citizen would fear--but plenty the bad guys would.On flip side theres the give an inch -take a mile possibilty. In this day and time I have no objection to it--but would not feel comfortable making it permanant fixture. Like idea of them having to hash it out periodically--just think now is bad time to weaken it.

--back to the media--theless they know about anything the better we are off. Case in point in 1998 when Clinton authorised a cruise missile attack on a training camp at Khost, Afghanistan to get Bin Laden--they missed him by minutes--how they know where he was==because we were tracking him by his cell phone via satelite which the Washington Post jumped out and reported days later. After the Post article he never used the phone again--his # number - 00873 682505331 - was disclosed later in the New York trial of his associates for bombing the US embassy in Kenya.

 

[gardenweasel]

i was wrong about the new york times....

this story about wiretapping without court orders wasn`t held up for a year because of the white house...it was held up until the vote on the patriot act renewal took place....and to get the iraqi election off the front page...

the new york times again....they have a thing about putting sales...and mainly politics...ahead of national security...

the author.... james risen claims the "times" delayed publication of the article for a year to conduct additional reporting.......

but now comes word that risen`s article is only one of many “explosive newsbreaking” stories that can be found — in his upcoming book!

he`s selling a book...and undermining the patriot act...

a two-fer...

the paper failed to reveal the urgent story was tied to a book release and sale.....

i hope the white house finds out who the rat in their midst is...this kind of information doesn`t grow on trees....

al qaeda should send christmas cards to the times and the cia......

what`s really galling is that we will now revert back to the "janie gorelick rule"....not allowing all government entities to share information...that`s unreal...


the president took extraordinary measures to protect americans in the aftermath of the sept. 11 terrorist attacks....

but the blabbermouths at the times chose....again.... to disclose classified information in a pathetically obvious bid to move the iraqi elections off the front pages.....and undermine the patriot act`s reauthorization....

which they accomplished this afternoon with the aid of some moronic republicans...

and btw...it looks like what the president did was above board....

""The Foreign Intelligence Security Act permits the government to monitor foreign communications, even if they are with U.S. citizens -- 50 USC 1801, et seq.... A FISA warrant is only needed if the subject communications are wholly contained in the United States and involve a "foreign power or an agent of a foreign power"...
.
The reason the President probably had to sign an executive order is that the Justice Department office that processes FISA requests, the Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR), can take over 6 months to get a standard FISA request approved..... It can become extremely bureaucratic, depending on who is handling the request..... His executive order is not contrary to FISA if he believed, as he clearly did, that he needed to act quickly. The president has constitutional powers, too""".....


what shocks me is that there`s so much indignation about a pencil pusher at the cia(valerie plame)......who wasn`t an undercover agent under the statute....

yet,nothing is said when the new york times rats out important security secrets like the outting of secret prisons in europe, cia front companies, and now secret wiretaps.....

egregious violations of law and extremely detrimental to our national security.....

they are by any measure far worse than any aspect of the plame matter......

the leakers.... our government needs to track down these perpetrators and punishing them, or will we continue to allow the nyt`s and washington post determine national security policy?...........

and if these wiretaps are violations of our civil liberties, it's curious that the times would wait a year to report about it.....

2 questions....

1) who personally has had their rights abridged by the patriot act?

2)when was the last time(or the first time..lol) that this newspaper(the nyt`s) reported a leak that was helpful to our war effort......

anybody know?....

 

[djv]

We better make sure as Americans any wire tapping is followed per rules. There are judges that can give permission at anytime of the day if necessary. Nat securty is not being put in jepordy with some excuse we had to act right away we could not wait for permission. Thats comlete BS.
As for Iraq election. No big deal believe they had one about 3 months ago. Nothing change after it. Killing just continued.

 

[Master Capper]

DTB,

I agree that most of the Patriot Act is tolerable but I think some of the things these guys are fighting for are worth the fight because they could be abused very easily and like you I don't believe anyone wants a 1984 scenerio. Also, I agree that these acts should all have an expiration date to allow our representatives to hash it out and adjust the act to reflect the changing of time.

 

[dr. freeze]

As for Iraq election. No big deal believe they had one about 3 months ago. Nothing change after it. Killing just continued.

whats even more unreal is the killing has continued in every country

i thought for sure the Iraqi elections would bring us world utopia for all time

 

[gardenweasel]

harry reid in congress.....

""think of what happened 20 minutes ago....we killed the patriot act""......thunderous applause..

feingold effectively helps put an end to the cooperation between the fbi and the cia that jamie gorelick help perpetrate on our country...

these are the same people...pelosi,levin(very possibly the 2 stupidest poloiticos in history) and the rest...many of whom voted for the act... many of whom voted to authorize the iraq action...before the fact....

democrats on the intelligence committee were aprised of the president`s actions....they WERE BRIEFED...

why did it take them 3 years to come forward?.....

again...hypoccrites...

and don`t start me on the republicans...somebody needs to make a list of these num-nums that caused the act to be nixed...

these assholes had better make damned sure that our security isn`t compromised in the quest to make political points...

9 months after bush took office...9/11...he then gets skewerd by the partisans for supposedly ignoring the richard clarke memo....

now,he gets bungholed again by the mainstream media for surveiling phone calls from points of contact outside this country....alleged terrorist contacts...or suspected terrorist contacts...

the hypocrisy is staggering...

the partisans represent it as "spying on americans"....

how many on this board have been surveiled?...have had their "rights"(the perversion of this word by partisans is sickening)violated....

this is a political straw man....and could result in a catastrophe...

it could take days or months to get "fisa" warrants....


you guys o.k. with us fighting the war on terror without being able to monitor phone calls INTO OUR COUNTRYfrom terrorist types?

like the 9/11 hi-jackers?...

no indication that anything was done illegally...the appropriate bi-partisan commttees were aware...

again,not a peep for 3 years from those that are screming now....???...

take a gander at this report...think about it....

it certainly could happen....................................


"""sunday, december 18, 2005


Feds Try to Plan for NYC Nuke Attack

A new study of the effects of a nuclear truck bomb in Manhattan: 1.6 million dead....

December 18, 2005 — Federal officials are investigating the deaths and horrific injuries that would result if a nuclear truck bomb were set off by terrorists in Manhattan, The Post has learned.

A national medical expert has told them the aftermath of such an attack would be a blood-curdling picture out of Dante’s “Inferno” — and the city is ill-prepared to relieve the horror.

Cham Dallas, director of the federally funded Center for Mass Destruction Defense, discussed his conclusions at a Nov. 10 closed hearing of a congressional panel. He showed lawmakers data predicting 1.6 million New Yorkers could be killed, maimed, burned or sickened if a 20-kiloton nuke exploded at Broadway and Warren Street downtown.

“We are not prepared for the 100,000 burn victims,” Dallas said. “It will be a picture out of Dante’s ‘Inferno,’ with all these people screaming in agony for days, and you won’t have enough people there to help them.”

A bomb that size, similar to the weapons dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, is considered “relatively small” by today’s standards for thermonuclear weapons, and could be detonated from the back of “a small rental truck or even a van,” Dallas said.""

anybody get the picture?...



this is not a political football...at least it shouldn`t be...

i hope that we don`t have to replay harry reid`s comments for him in the near future...

no abuses reported from the patriot act...what are we throwing away here?

tim russert...george stefanopoulos....wolf blitzer...brian williams...all hysterical...

throwing the baby out with the bath water...

bunch of fricking fools...

 

[AR182]

i find it hard to understand why the n.y. times gets all of credibilty that they get.....it's definitely not deserved...

they are nothing but a partisan news organization that hates bush so much that they are not hesitant about jeopardizing this country's national security......now i understand that they held this story to come out at the time of this vote & for the columnist to push a sale for a book.........

it's really disgusting & am surprised that there is not more outrage.....

 

[djv]

The PAT ACT needs to be looked at close. If it would work as well as FEMA did. Well we would have big problems. It looks better for us all that it has changes so it would work better. If those in the intelligent community have questions. Work it out.