"Torture" made illegal?

[dawgball]

First, I may be a blind fool but I don't think our country endorses real torture. Now, as far as I can see, this new law will not allow our interrogators use as much of a tactic as sleep deprevation.

This is bad news.

We will sip a few cocktails and hope we get some answers. Our enemy will slice the head off of our citizens, rip fingernails off, cut eyeballs out of a living human. Who's going to win that war?

 

[StevieD]

Looks like a Bush flip flop to me.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

He's not flopping--he'll do what needs to be done--the "agreement" didn't change anything.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2005121...pWFOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
--however can't believe in war where terrorist(not miltary per Geneva convention) we want to put in phrase no "degrading" terrorist---and can't believe McCain agreed we need to do whats necessary--even if we have to break the rules--good move John--we break rules once and you have the liberals and press wailing and wanting someones head regardless of situation.

Only way I can see around the liberals/terrorist co-venture is to let other countries do the questioning and hand out punishment.

If you want to find out how to fight terror do a little reasearch on Carlos Escobar of Medell?n Cartel who ruled the whole country of Columbia with fear as he killed every politician-prosecuter and miltary that opposed him via bombs and assasination. Took U.S. special forces unit who "justed trained" special Columbia unit Los Pitos (spl) who answered to no one--held no courts-took no prisoners. Had Escobar's org dismateled in short order and Escobar in hiding--and finally killed in "shootout" with what must have been "lucky" shot behind the ear.No judges to buy off or terrorize--no escape.

Is totally mind bogeling that the same element that doesn't feel any safer--whines about pre/post 911 intelligence failures is the very same that tries to do everything it can to aid terrorist--and impair our people. Methinks it will come back to bite some big time at the polls.

 

[StevieD]

Sounds a little like Saddam to me.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

I beg to differ--he was turned over to courts--and you see who crawls out of woodwork in his defence--

 

[StevieD]

You talking about Scooter defending your friend Rich?

You can't possibly be arguing that by signing this bill that Bush has switched his position on torture can you?

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Would depend on how one defines torture--as you see in this bill nothing is defined-no specifics.

Some examples I would classify as torture would be breaking bones-chopping off heads-elecrtricution--pulling out finger nails one by one--hanging person up by arms till it pulls shoulders out of socket ect

--but appears some want degrading thrown in there and somehow I don't think be interrogated by women quards--putting womens panties over their heads--heat and cold-loud music--not allowing religious rights ect falls under torture.
Just what couldn't be classified as degrading if argued by attorney.

You tell me if liberals had their way--and terrorist were supplied with attorneys when captured--who made sure they would not get degraded--just why would they have incentive to tell anyone anything? How would you interrogate them--what incentive would they have to say anything.

Maybe you could make your point better if you give us example of how liberals think interrogations should go.
situtuation--
You have shootout with terrorist--and capture 3 along with computer with lots of names--and future terrorist activities--however no time lines or locations which you need to know.
Tell us--how would you go about extracting info???

 

[StevieD]

Dogs, why do you insist on making everything a Bush vs. the Liberals battle? The Bill was written by McCain. Bush was against it. Then he signed it. That is a freaking flip flop no matter what side of the fence you are on. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, I am not an expert in torture. Apparently, you fancy yourself one so why don't you tell the world how war prisoners should be treated. I look forward to your answer as I am sure it will enlighten all of us who do not happen to be experts in the art of interrogation.

 

[dawgball]

Looks like a Bush flip flop to me.

Stevie -- it appears that you were the one in this thread to start the Everyone vs. Bush trend. Nice job on passing the blame, though.

I don't really see this as a political party issue. This, in my opinion, is just a bad move. I am not for outrigth torture, but the limiting effect of this bill will hinder our ability in the future.

 

[StevieD]

Dawgball, it was clearly me who stated that Bush flip flopped on the issue. But I think even you have to agree that it was Dogs who started in with this Liberal BS. Even a centrist like you appears to be against the bill that Bush signed that was written by McCain. I agree with you that it is not a Political Party thing. So it appears to me that you should be taking swipes at Dogs because he brought up the liberal vs Bush thing. I simply pointed out that Bush has apparently changed his mind.

 

[dr. freeze]

we should let our military and CIA do anything against terrorists if it means saving American lives

not sure why we are further crippling our strength yet once again

we need to kick the media out of the war on terror as they are nothing but a hindrance and let the CIA do what the CIA used to be so good at doing -- protecting us

we do not need to all be aware of what is going on behind the scenes

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Let me re-phrase it--for "those" who want to give terrorist attorneys--not degrade terrorist when interrogating ect--
how do you handle this situation--or how do you want those whose job to protect you to handle following situation--if you have no answer I must assume you fall in the Peloski-Kennedy-Dean Reid ect-- be critical but have no solutions.

again your situtuation--
You have shootout with terrorist--and capture 3 along with computer with lots of names--and future terrorist activities--however no time lines or locations which you need to know.
Tell us--how would you or how do you want your military to go about obtaining imperative info??? Is it beginning to sink in yet???

 

[dawgball]

we should let our military and CIA do anything against terrorists if it means saving American lives

I don't agree with this.

we do not need to all be aware of what is going on behind the scenes

I ABSOLUTELY agree with this statement. This is the real issue in my opinion. War and everything with it is ugly.

I will state again. How many Americans would have been against the two World Wars if they would have been telecast in our living rooms. I believe it would have been a completely different ballgame.

Stevie-- I will assume from your statement that Bush changed his mind on this issue. I don't know, but I completely disagree with him on this where he stands currently.

 

[StevieD]

Dawg, I am glad to hear you say that. It shows an honest disagreement with the President and there is nothing wrong with that plus it opens up channels to an honest discussion.

Once again Dogs, howeve,r misses the entire issue. Bush signs a bill written by McCain and Dogs blames Kennedy and Pellosi?????

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

No Stevie evidently for the 3rd time you missed the question???
I won't ask you a 4th time because you-rights groups-Aclu-Reid-Peloski Kennedy ect as usual have no answers just anti anything.
McCain no better in this situation. When confronted with simliar question he if necessary rules can be broken. Yeh right then why have rules to begin with.