Calling the poker guys...hand analysis

[saint]

I was in a nl tourney, I'm curious as to if I made the correct play. There was about 70 people of 2500 left at this point.

There were 3 people involved in the hand. I was in the BB with 17k chips with pocket 9s. I have one guy call the big blind who has 30k (we'll call him Frank), and another guy who raises the BB who has 2k (james). Both Frank and I call the raise by James. Up to this point frank is a loose aggressive player so the call did not raise any red flags.

Flop comes 10-10-6. I'm the first to act, I check. Frank checks. James goes all-in with his 2k. At this point I know james probably has a pretty big pocket pair but I also put him on AK, and I figure Frank does not have the 10. I basically semi-bluff at the pot and go all-in, figuring I'll force Frank to fold his hand. Worst case scenario is I lose the 2k but the blinds were pretty big and I figured I would force Frank out and it would be a race, or if James has AK i have him beat at this point.

Well of course Frank goes all-in. Frank shows Q10, James KK, james catches a K on the river for the boat.

Did I play this right? I know it was a risk to guess Frank would not have the 10 that did not pay off in the end, but is this an okay move to make or was this incorrect. The only thing I do think about is that Frank was ususally agressive w/ rags and would slow play when he was strong. I guess this could have led me to see he had a 10 but the chances were so small.

Also, another question. I usually play full ring 1/2 and 2/4 and have done pretty well, up about 4k in the last 3 months. I've just now started to play tournaments. In the last 5 I've played I will make it down to the last 70-100 or so out of 2k players but can't seem to get further. Could this just be luck or do you think that warrants me to change things up.

Thanks guys.

 

[BleedDodgerBlue]

not a tourney expert by any stretch of the imagination. but imo:

you played preflop terrible. be cognizant of chip stacks. you see that james only has 2k left after his raise. put him in preflop by reraising. this will eliminate frank. frank limped preflop anyway. hes not calling a re raise with nothing. push preflop after james raises and saves 2k. or at least reraise a substantial amount telling frank you don't want him in the pot. you don't want a multiway pot out of position with 99. forget that you would have lost to kk. that's meaningless anyway. reraise preflop to eliminate a limper. if he limped with aa or something hes gonna stack you anyway.

just my opinion.

gl

 

[saint]

not a tourney expert by any stretch of the imagination. but imo:

you played preflop terrible. be cognizant of chip stacks. you see that james only has 2k left after his raise. put him in preflop by reraising. this will eliminate frank. frank limped preflop anyway. hes not calling a re raise with nothing. push preflop after james raises and saves 2k. or at least reraise a substantial amount telling frank you don't want him in the pot. you don't want a multiway pot out of position with 99. forget that you would have lost to kk. that's meaningless anyway. reraise preflop to eliminate a limper. if he limped with aa or something hes gonna stack you anyway.

just my opinion.

gl

Tx I appreciate it, as you can see I am very inexperienced in tournament play and am used to full-ring.

 

[Agent 0659]

I totally agree with BDB :scared You need to raise preflop to protect your hand from such garbage as a Q10 limper. You dont say what the blinds are but based on the chips, I would have reraised to probably 6,000 to go. This would put the short stack all in and if the other guy pushes, I think you have to fold and keep your remaining 11,000. If he smooth calls its kinda touch and go but you trapped yourself in this hand by playing it so weak preflop. If you decide to play it THAT way(weak) I dont see why you would be willing to go broke with it like that on a flop of 10-10-6, when lots of hands beat you and lots more can suck out. About the only way Im goin broke with 99 in a pot like that is a flop of 678 or if I hit a set. Hope this helps!


Edit: Obviously you still would have lost to KK, but you would have survived and THAT is the object of tournaments. Remember when its this late in a tourney, the blinds are putting pressure on eveyrone so you have to be willing to be aggressive preflop like this. In a cash game you can sit back and wait.

 

[saint]

Thanks guys :mj14:

 

[SpursDynasty]

Always single out a short stack when u have a mid pair and theres another person.

Why risk 16k to only win 4k when theres a small chance that Frank might have the goods? Most smart players will call/raise the short stack to show that he has a good chance to bust the short stack. coop play in tourneys is a crucial thing in tourneys, many newbies make mistakes regarding it.

If you want to get further in tourneys, id reccommend dan harringontons 2nd book.

 

[JOSHNAUDI]

Some good thoughts here.

Thanks for sharing Saint, Love talking cards and plays.
Curious how long a 2500 person tourney takes? Sounds like a full days worth of poker.

I have 2 thoughts on your hand starting at the flop.
In first position, three way action, board pairs, and you're wired. You know the outlaw 'Jesse' James is pot committed and is going to call regardless. His brother Frank, the neglected middle child, is sitting between you and poses an IRS threat. You know, the type that can make you broke if you dont pay your taxes.
So if I'm sitting there, I pay my tax and bet out. Not sure what the pot is sitting at but you bet an amount exceeding 2k. This is not the situation to overbet the pot because you know there's a 99.9% chance that Jesse's calling. Frank then has to tell you what he has.
Hind sight is 20-20 but we know that Frank is patient enough to check a set in this situation, but that's not so surprising because just like you he knew Jesse was going to get his 2k into the middle.
Now that you have bet out, Frank has a decision to make, if he calls you get to see another card and depending on your bet, Frank might be looking at a check-down situation. He doesn't want to see a 789 on the turn and he doesnt want to get into a check-down situation, so that only leaves one option, Frank say's, "I raise, Awl een" Jesse 'one hand's' the rest of his chips in and you shoot a glance over to Frank who wouldn't dare make eye contact with you (Even online, he wouldn't look at the screen hoping for a call) You tell him that you are going to need a receipt for the donation to the pot, muck your taxed hand, and then watch him get rivered.
You do have to listen to him for the rest of the tourney tell everyone within eye-shot how online poker is rigged, and that's the worst beat in the history of post-victorian era poker.

Or, let's say you swat at a fly, accidently check, Frank check's and Jesse still 'one hands' his money into the pot. In this situation I like the smooth call and put Frank right back in the same situation. If he calls, you don't mind, because you're not going to bet out. But he won't call, he's going to raise with trips, you throw the look back at him and say, "I'm laying down and praying that you are not one of those dick's that would bluff a stymied pot." Note - You still have to listen to the uber bad beat of the century story even though he was the underdog coming into the hand.

At least in my unpublished opinion, a call by Frank at any point above is what I'm hoping for. If Frank lays down, you flip over your cards, look at Jesse half expecting to see the high pocket pair, the other half expecting to see 2 over cards, and all the while hoping like hell you see a pair of 3's. When Frank just calls you know there is no hesitation in getting the check out there. Only a dick would bluff a stymied pot. You also know that if the 9 hits you are going to bet a third of the pot because the key word above is bluff not bet. 1/3 of the pot means that if you beat Frank and lose to Jesse you break even. Plus it's a tempting bet, the holiday season, and if the 9 came on the turn it will be Christmas by the river. Unless it's another 10 and then even I will sit around to hear that bad beat story.

Thanks again for sharing your hand. I'm not a poker pro, but I did stay in a Holliday Inn Express last night.

Happy poking

 

[saint]

I appreciate the feedback guys. As you can see I am thankful for the constructive criticism. I know I played it wrong but am not too embarassed just looking to improve. I'm sure I'll have more to post soon. I know i'm not the first person here to play a hand incorrectly :mj14:

 

[Agent 0659]

Joshnaudi= :mj07:


Saint, keep working at it man, you are doing really the only thing you can to get better. Of course none of what we say above is the absolute right thing every time or even this time maybe. I like Mike Caros thinking when he says you get paid in poker to make good decisions. Doesnt matter if you get sucked out on and lose, just keep doing the right thing. Doesnt pay as well in tournies usually but you catch his drift.

 

[S-Love]

come watch Agent in a $5 tourney !!

 

[White Shadow]

Saint......are you Saint_218 at PP? Thought maybe we are playing in the same tourney right now but don't know if that's you or not.

 

[saint]

Saint......are you Saint_218 at PP? Thought maybe we are playing in the same tourney right now but don't know if that's you or not.

No I actually have a couple of handles at PP but none of them have saint in them.