DAMNIT!

dawgball

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Alright, I was watching some brainless news TV Sunday morning reading a book, and I got sucked in on thinking about who is running in '08.

What are the people you would like see running or who would you think could best represent each party's real values.

Mine are Clinton vs. McCain.

Hillary has her faults, and she definitely has the hatred of the other party, but she absolutely understands certain things. She knows how to play the liberal rhetoric game while practicing conservative policies.

And McCain is such an obvious choice that it will probably never happen.
 

gardenweasel

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i`m not a hige fan of either...but,i agree....i hope this is it....this is the most interesting matchup.....

no george allens,condy rice`s or romneys....no barak obamas or kerrys or bidens....


no mucking it up...just throw the big guns out there...let `em go at it...

funny though,both hill and mccain are having little dust ups with their respective political bases...both are leaning toward the middle...maybe that`s subterfuge...or maybe that`s just a good sign for the country....

i`d think most are hoping for this heavyweight fight...

i hope you`re right,dog...

this one will be fun...
 

bjfinste

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gardenweasel said:
or maybe that`s just a good sign for the country....

I think it WOULD be a good sign for the country, especially if they actually would hold those values once elected. But the problem with it is like you said... the party bases aren't happy with it, and one of the unfortunate things about the political system here is that the party nominees are determined by the primaries, which generally are overwhelmingly made up of the extreme fringe elements of each party.

As far as the original post goes, I honestly have no idea. I'll be the first to admit that my personal beliefs tend to be pretty fringe as well, but I would like to see a couple of nominees that not only avoided both fringes during the run-up to the primary but actually would reprsent a middle ground as president. That is where so many of this country's citizens are. I'm just not sure if that individual exists, and if he or she would be electable if there were.
 

Master Capper

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I would like to see the Dems toss out Warner from Virginia and I would like to see the GOP run a Gov that has done a good job in his/her state. I could live with either one of them as long as the GOP person did not sell their soul to the far religious right and the Dem did not align himself with MOVEON or Soros. I think the average Joe is sick of the corruption and lies that is coming out of Washington right now and wants someone fresh that doesnt have the DC track record. I hope that Hilary doesn't get the nomination as it will be nothing but a sideshow and I think McCain has a long voting record that could be used against him and he is not well liked by the relgious right so I sort of doubt he will do well in the southern state primaries.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I don't think Hilliary has anywhere near conservative views Dawg.
As predicted by many she has made an effort to "appear" that way knowing full well a dove has no chance in this day and time.
Remember she was staunchly for gov sponsored healthcare and her voting record closely resembles Ted Kennedy---


? The Americans for Democratic Action (ADA), the self-styled premier liberal organization that issues annual congressional voting ratings by tallying the votes cast on its 20 most important issues, has given Mrs. Clinton scores (ADA cleverly calls them "liberal quotients") of 95 percent for each of her first three years. Mr. Kennedy's ADA ratings have been 100 percent (2001 and 2002) and 95 percent (2003).
? If the ADA guards the liberal flame in Congress, the American Conservative Union (ACU) performs the same function for conservatives. Mrs. Clinton's average ACU rating (2001-2003) of 11 is not much different from Mr. Kennedy's 5 for the same period.
? The Big Labor bosses love New York's junior senator as much as they worship Massachusetts' senior senator. The American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, which is feverishly working to protect the gold-plated, unaffordable, bankruptcy-inducing pensions and early-retirement privileges of public workers, has given Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Kennedy 100 percent ratings for 2001, 2002 and 2003. Meanwhile, Mrs. Clinton's lifetime rating of 93 percent from the AFL-CIO is precisely the same as Mr. Kennedy's.
? For the 2001-2003 period, Mrs. Clinton compiled an average rating of 88.3 from the League of Conservation Voters. That was 2 points higher than Mr. Kennedy's three-year average.
? Neither Mrs. Clinton nor Mr. Kennedy did much for taxpayers during 2001-2003. She has compiled an average annual rating of 14 percent from the National Taxpayers Union; Mr. Kennedy's is 13 percent. Meanwhile, the National Tax Limitation Committee gave both senators a zero rating for the 107th Congress (2001-2002).
? The one score the Christian Coalition has given to each of them since Mrs. Clinton arrived in the Senate is zero. That shouldn't be much of a surprise, considering that each of their annual ratings (2001-2003) from the National Right to Life Committee has been zero, while each has earned 100 percent marks from NARAL Pro-Choice America over the same period. Each also received identical scores from the American Civil Liberties Union for the 107th Congress.
? Each year the nonpartisan National Journal ranks each senator on three separate liberal/conservative continuums according to dozens of votes cast on economic, social and foreign-policy issues. In 2002, not a single U.S. senator was considered more liberal than Mrs. Clinton on economic and social matters. Last year no senator surpassed her liberal ranking on social issues, while she voted more liberally on economic matters than 90 percent of her colleagues. Her composite liberal score last year was higher than Mr. Kennedy's. A "Northeastern centrist"? Compared to Mrs. Clinton's 2003 composite liberal score of 88.8, Maine Republican Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins received composite liberal scores of 50.5 and 50.8, respectively, establishing their unquestioned "Northeastern centrist" credentials. Mrs. Clinton isn't even in the centrist ballpark.
? Each year the authoritative Congressional Quarterly (CQ) selects 10 to 15 "key votes." Since arriving in the U.S. Senate in 2001, Mrs. Clinton cast the same votes as Mr. Kennedy on CQ-selected "key" issues in nine out of 10 cases (2001), 12 out of 13 instances (2002) and 13 out of 14 votes (2003).
Having witnessed what has happened to comparably liberal Northeastern politicians who have sought the presidency over the past quarter century, including Massachusetts liberals like Mr. Kennedy (1980), Michael Dukakis (1988) and John Kerry (2004), Mrs. Clinton will surely seek to adopt the "centrist" image over the next few years. To this end, she will undoubtedly be helped by her liberal media friends, who, like Hillary, understand how deadly the liberal moniker is to a politician nationwide. In the interest of truth, The Washington Times editorial page will occasionally take a close look at her positions in order to confirm beyond any freshly arising doubt just how entrenched her liberalism truly is. Today, we have seen that interest groups across the political spectrum consider her virtually indistinguishable from Teddy Kennedy, the widely proclaimed ? and unabashed ? lion of Senate liberalism.
 

dawgball

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She is certainly a liberal at heart, but she knows how to play the game. She has been moving to more andmore conservative policy. That was my only point on her.

I really don't see Guilliani being a strong candidate even though I am a big fan of his.

Obama will make noise for the Dems as well. Yes, his name hurts his chances but it's not like Illinois is the ultimate progressive state, and he won there.

I'll back Forbes if he could assure me he would delegate foreign affairs to someone "like" Colin Powell. I think my main two concerns are deficit (which I do like where our economy is going) and a progressive thinking, iron-clad policy on immigration controls. I don't want our borders shut down, but I would like to see illegals getting the boot.
 

dawgball

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I think that is great news for the Dems. Not that he is not a great candidate, but it takes him out of the conversations where it would only add confusion.

can we start talking 2012?
 

Master Capper

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One guy were forgetting about is Al Gore as a possible nomination for the Dems, as I just reas that his public approval rating is the highest that it has ever been. On the same note, McCains public approval rating is around 60% which is fantastic and it is being spectualted that with such a high PA rating that if he is denied the GOP nomination by the power brokers that he will more than likely run as an Independent. Personally, I really don't care for Gore, but he may be positioning himself for a run in 08, but McCain as an independent would more than likely get my vote. What I really hope we don't see is a Geroge Allen against Kerry election, since both these guys turn my stomach and I really don't think either are much of a step up from the last two regimes we have seen grace the oval office.
 

dawgball

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If Gore wins the nomination, it will just be another bad move by the Dem party.

I also think Allen vs. Kerry would be a terrible election, and I think McCain as an independent would have a more than legitimate shot of taking the election from them.

but I doubt McCain would run as independent.
 

Master Capper

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but I doubt McCain would run as independent.


At his age more than likely this will be his last shot and if the religious right stops him from getting the GOP nomination by doing what they did to him In S Carolina in 00 then he has nothing to lose by going the independent route
 

StevieD

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Gore could be a very real possibility. He won the popular vote in 2000 and all things being fair in Florida should have won the Presidency. He did not get us involved in that quagmire in Iraq.
 

dr. freeze

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I am a bit partial, but Gore would be MUCH better than Hillary or Kerry. The guy is an intellect and other than his environmental extremism, has a very keen view of the world when not speaking to his loony left fringe wackos.

He also exhibits family values, virtue, and loyalty in his own personal life and dealings which are rare in politics. I also believe he would put country first /party second more so than any other democratic candidate. His concession speech in 2000 showed this quality of his.

I also think that if he had been President during 9-11, we would have fought back just as we are doing with Bush right now. And Gore would have done basically the same thing. Only, the looney left would have been quieter than they are now and we would be more united as most conservatives would have rallied behind an aggressive plan of action.

You also dont see him running to other countries when he has something to say. He says what he has to say when the cameras are the brightest. Dont always agree with it, but this shows courage.
 
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Master Capper

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Even though it happened many moons ago, I am wondering in light of the republican ethic problems if McCain's past ethical lapse involving Charles Keating will come back to haunt him?
 

dawgball

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MC -- that kind of touches on why I don't think McCain would run as an Independent. The Republican party has too much dirt at thier disposal which they have shown in the past that they are not afraid to use against him. IMO, if he doesn't win the Republican nomination, he doesn't run or in the very least doesn't finish the race.

Gore would be our President today if he had better speaking skills when he ran. If he runs again, he will make serious noise.
 

Master Capper

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Dawgball,

I definitely agree with your opinion on Gore, since it is my belief that he basically tanked the 00 elections. I will say that his speaking skills have become better at least in the speeches I have heard him give lately, but I wonder if his family wants to go through another campaign like they did in 2000. Researching some of the possible nominees I was sort of surprised to find out that Mark Warner is not a native Southerner, but spent much of his life in Connecticut which could create a disadvantage for him.
 

Chadman

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Some constructive, solid thoughts being put forth in this thread. Nice to see. Both sides being objective. I honestly don't think McCain will end up with the Republican nomination because I don't think the current administration will allow it. I think he would be a good candidate and without intense study of his record, I personally like him. He comes across as being genuine and someone with a level head, and I could feel as good as I could about having a Republican president. I think. I think Clinton will win the nomination for the Democrats, and I think she will be a formidable candidate. I would LOVE to see a series of debates between Clinton and McCain. Those would be entertaining. If Gore, Kerry and Clinton all end up running, I think it will end badly for the Democratic party. I guess it depends on how organized the party is from this point on. Not sure it is organized. All three have positives and negatives, and not sure what Dean will have to do with it. He is pretty liberal, and if he has any real say in it, might look for a liberal leaner.

It should be interesting, for sure.
 

dawgball

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I agree, Chad, that if it comes down to those three the Dems are in trouble because you will likely end up with Kerry. No chance he wins. I think Jenna Bush could beat him even with the distaste for her father.

I have not seen Gore speakin a while and my lack of interest is based on his history of being an awful speaker and spouting a bunch of nonsense about the internet and alternative fuel. Those comments really diminished his credibility with me. I just viewed him as kind of kooky after that.

I'm sure we will get plenty of chances over the next 2 years to change our minds on his skills.
 

Chadman

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I think the dems may be positioning themselves to save some money. If Gore does make himself available, we could just re-use all the Clinton-Gore signs and stickers... :)
 

gardenweasel

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freeze......"I am a bit partial, but Gore would be MUCH better than Hillary or Kerry......The guy is "an intellect" :shocked: and other than his environmental extremism, has a very keen view of the world when not speaking to his loony left fringe wackos."""

o.k....so he invented the internet......and has been credited with some profound quotes...

""At an event in Las Vegas on Monday, 09/18/00, Gore declared potential breast cancer victims faced "a long waiting line before they could get a biopsy or, uh, or a uh, another kind of, what am I looking for, a sonogram or...." People in the crowd shouted "mammogram."

or...

"""When my sister and I were growing up," Mr. Gore told a small audience made up mostly of women, "there was never any doubt in our minds that men and women were equal, """if not more so." """"

hmmmmm....



freeze,...where`s the punch line?.....

you think he`s much better than hillary?...has a better chance in 2008?..

compared to hillary...in real time...he`s the ryan leaf of the democratic party...
 
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