Are we 'at war?'

[djv]

So many wars that don't end. WE like those words. Were at war against 'Cancer and Heart disease. We just ended the cold war.
now we have a terror war. Against who? So many people we don't even know there names. Above some place it states 200 suicide bombers ready to go right now here in USA. Scott Atlanta got that info where? And are they all Arabs. Or some right wing nuts. Remember Ok City. Those cats were just good old boys. I never heard congress declare war on any one yet.
One war were loosing is the manufacturing one. Were giving our souls away to Asia.

 

[dr. freeze]

You're not going to have much of a choice about it, if the inner circle has anything to say about it. This group is so maniacally going about gaining ultimate power that they don't care what they do to get it, or what will happen after they are gone. The problem for conservatives is, that if this administration succeeds in some of these measures, they will be in place after they are gone.

Maybe some of you should look past defending this administration blindly for a minute and realize what is happening.

all conservatives realize the danger of this

most of us are on the fence but as you say because Bush is in office, we trust him with it

you are right, if Hill was in office, i would not trust her with it

I really dont see GWB spying on the average citizen for political gain

Tom DeLay or Hill? Definitely would be against it.

But GWB, personally, i would let the guy alone

Difficult issue, and its not a hypocritical stance to say you are on the fence because you trust the guy in office.

its a tough issue, and it is too bad the left resorts to attacking as if Clinton and Gore never used it and as if GWB is way out of line. lets address it honestly and forthrightly since its in the open

but that will never happen

 

[THE KOD]

Above some place it states 200 suicide bombers ready to go right now here in USA. Scott Atlanta got that info where? And are they all Arabs. .

..........................................................

Oprah said it. I dont think Oprah lies about much of nothing.

They are some of the same ones that George is tapping their phones.

 

[JCDunkDogs]

Why should we trade our freedom for safety? Allowing these wiretaps without involving a judge or magistrate is a mistake, IMO. Its an encroachment on our rights. These rights were won with the blood, sweat and tears of our forefathers. Now, we are content to give them back? Do we hold them so cheaply? And now we are expected to sit back and watch our rights trampled by the current regime, bowing to the fear of the people of some far off bogie man.

I understand the fear; we are afraid for the safety of ourselves, our families, and our way of life. But fear is a trickster. Fear makes us do things that are expedient, and seem rational at the time, but when looking back upon it years later, proves to have been lunacy.

We may be attacked tomorrow, or next week, or next month. Hundreds or thousands might die. As awful as those numbers might be, they don't amount to even one percent of the lives that were given to secure our liberties. Isn't it better to harden our hides and bear the worst of our fear, than to indulge our fear by allowing the authorities into our houses to search under the bed? The government is a house guest that, once invited in, may not be so easily put out. The People should never give away what was so dearly won by blood: The People should never hand over to their government any power that belongs to the People. We may never get it back.

Patrick Henry said, "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me,
Give me liberty or give me death."

 

[AR182]

kosar quote:"Yes, I presume that if Hillary is elected, and she leaves this stuff in place(hey, maybe she'll come up with some neat new ideas of her own!),"


one of her ideas would be on spying on former presidents....especially the one from arkansas

 

[kosar]

kosar quote:"Yes, I presume that if Hillary is elected, and she leaves this stuff in place(hey, maybe she'll come up with some neat new ideas of her own!),"


one of her ideas would be on spying on former presidents....especially the one from arkansas

She needs to.

 

[djv]

Oprah? She just helped hipe a book that is full of lies. Hillary Prez? Never happen. She has same chance the Rice girl has little or none.
Thk God.

 

[Chadman]

all conservatives realize the danger of this

most of us are on the fence but as you say because Bush is in office, we trust him with it

you are right, if Hill was in office, i would not trust her with it

I really dont see GWB spying on the average citizen for political gain

Tom DeLay or Hill? Definitely would be against it.

But GWB, personally, i would let the guy alone

Difficult issue, and its not a hypocritical stance to say you are on the fence because you trust the guy in office.

its a tough issue, and it is too bad the left resorts to attacking as if Clinton and Gore never used it and as if GWB is way out of line. lets address it honestly and forthrightly since its in the open

but that will never happen

I don't think all conservatives realize the danger of this. I really don't. And I think some conservatives who happen to be in power are positioning for it.

I don't really see GW spying on the average citizen for political gain, either. I do very much worry about the people around him and the people he has put in positions of importance and power, however. I honestly don't worry too much about GW, because personally I don't think he makes many important decisions when it gets down to it. I think his advisors and inner circle make most of the decisions, or help him get to the decisions they want him to make. That's honestly the way I feel about it. And I certainly think that these characters would spy on interests that differ from their imperialistic world view and people on the other side of the political aisle. My opinion, just like yours in trusting them. I don't trust them, and I don't think they've earned our trust.

From what I've read, Clinton and Gore have not used these measures without using FISA warrants. Maybe you have, and I would look at those. But Bush has admitted it, it's public record, and he has undertaken a public campaign to continue it. The only real source I have seen on this to come out and say that it is legal is Alberto Gonzalez, who was appointed by Bush. I'm sure there are others, but not many that have any facts or legal opinions. Of course Gonzalez is going to find some kind of language to make it seem ok. Like Congress and the Senate said it was ok when they gave Bush authority to go to war. Which is a tremendous leap of faith and has been argued against extensively by constitutional scholars and non-conservative members of that same congress and Senate.

You talk about discussing this honestly and forthrightly. I think I am. And moreso than this administration. I for one am glad the democrats are attacking on this issue. It is important, no matter how many times those responsible say it isn't. I know conservatives wish liberals would just shut up and get run over by these power mongers, but it's the responsible thing to do for America and for the people they represent.

 

[LawyerTx]

J.Edgar Hoover was a member of the Executive Branch of Government. So was Richard Nixon. Jos. McCarthy was a member of the Legislative Branch. All three were paranoid. At least two of them, retrospectively, were nuts. If your "government" has the unbridled authority to do what King George W is doing, why wouldn't wingnuts such as Hoover, Nixon and McCarthy have had the same authority. And what might have happened had they claimed and used that authority? What about the next wingnut, even though I'm not so sure King George isn't one of them. If you let it get started, where does it stop? Who is going to stop it?