Hamas

Mjolnir

Registered User
Forum Member
May 15, 2003
3,747
11
0
S. CAL.
anyone else thinkin this is gonna end real ugly for palestinians. if i was palestinian i'd find another home.



Hamas Won't Renounce Violence
Sunday, January 29, 2006


Hamas Wins in Landslide

Rice Renews U.S. Support for a Palestinian State
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip ? Following their resounding election victory, the Islamic militants of Hamas met the question of whether they will change their stripes with a loud "no": no recognition of Israel, no negotiations, no renunciation of terror.

But the world holds out hope that international pressure can make them more moderate. At stake is the future of Mideast peacemaking, billions of dollars in aid and the Palestinians' relationship with Israel, the United States and Europe.

Hamas' victory ? winning 74 of 132 parliament seats in Wednesday's election ? has created a dizzying power shift in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, overturning certitudes and highlighting the failure by Palestinian leaders, Israel and the international community to ease growing desperation in the Palestinian territories.

Weekend violence between Hamas and Palestinian policemen mostly allied with long-dominant Fatah, and angry demonstrations by disgruntled gunmen fearing the loss of jobs and income after the Hamas win, have raised the specter of widespread civil strife.

After a brutal five-year campaign by Israel to destroy Hamas and assassinate its top leaders, the organization emerged stronger than ever and is poised to take over the Palestinian Authority.

The U.S. has pushed for democracy in the Middle East, hoping to promote moderation and head off more 9/11-style attacks, but, as in recent votes in Iraq, Egypt and Lebanon, a clean and fair election has empowered Islamists in the West Bank and Gaza.

(Story continues below)

ADVERTISEMENTS
Advertise Here

Israel and the international community repeatedly have demanded that the Palestinian government disarm militias, but now that the main militia appears to have become the government, no one knows what will happen to its weapons.

The win by Hamas ? which is responsible for dozens of suicide bombings on Israelis and has long called for the destruction of the Jewish state ? caught everyone, including the organization itself, off guard.

Both Hamas and the international community face agonizing dilemmas. Hamas leaders say they won't renounce their violent ideology, but the consequences of failing to do so are likely to be catastrophic: loss of life-sustaining aid, international isolation and a profound setback to their statehood aspirations.

The United States and many European countries say they'll have nothing to do with a Hamas government, but a sharp cutoff in aid and an overly zealous stance could steer the Palestinians further away from moderation at an extremely delicate moment.

An interview with an up-and-coming young Hamas leader in a dusty Gaza Strip field revealed how the organization's slant could shift.

Mushir al-Masri said renouncing the "armed struggle" and negotiating with Israel are "not on Hamas' agenda" because a decade of talking won the Palestinians nothing.

"We cannot waste 10 more years when the last 10 years failed to realize even the minimum amount of Palestinian hopes," he said.

But when an aide tried to put a green Hamas sash over al-Masri's shoulder before a TV interview, the 29-year-old newly elected lawmaker shooed him away. "You should bring me the Palestinian flag," he said, reflecting his movement's stated desire to represent all Palestinians.

By all accounts, Palestinians didn't choose Hamas because they reject peace talks with Israel but rather because they were fed up with graft in the ruling Fatah Party. Hamas candidates ran on a platform of clean government, largely de-emphasizing their militant credentials.

Samih al-Hattab, a 32-year-old policeman in Gaza City, said he voted for Hamas because "everyone wants change," but said he expected the group to soften its stances once in power.

"A politician has to be seasoned and to adapt to the situation he's under," he said, standing outside a mosque where a cleric had just finished a sermon urging Hamas not to follow the corrupt ways of Fatah.

Hamas leaders are aware of their dilemma. Since the election, they have struggled to persuade Fatah to join them in a coalition ? hoping to avoid having to deal with Israel and the West. But Fatah has so far rejected the offer.

Hamas victory celebrations have been decidedly muted, another indication the group seeks to handle the situation delicately.

Despite that, tensions are boiling on the streets. Clashes in Gaza between Hamas gunmen and Palestinian police on Friday and Saturday wounded four officers and one Hamas militant.

Also Saturday, thousands of angry Fatah activists, led by masked gunmen firing in the air, marched through several West Bank cities demanding the resignation of party leaders following their defeat.

The growing unrest, combined with the complexities of running a government and world pressure for it to change its ways, pose daunting challenges to Hamas, which has little experience in governance.

If Hamas forms the next government, as is likely, and fails to renounce its call for the destruction of Israel, the U.S. and most European countries are almost certain to cut off the financial aid that keeps the already bankrupt Palestinian Authority running.

Israel, which has urged the international community not to deal with a Hamas government, has substantial leverage in the situation but for now appears intent on holding off on severe measures such as closing border crossings with Gaza or cutting off the monthly flow of tax transfers to the Palestinian Authority.

The Palestinians have a mixed system of government, part presidential and part parliamentary. That means Fatah's Mahmoud Abbas, the moderate president of the Palestinian Authority, should be able to remain in office.

Still unknown, however, is whether Hamas will seize its right to form the new government, taking over the premiership and a new Palestinian Cabinet, and what sort of powers that would give them. The previous Fatah-dominated legislature for the most part fell in line with Abbas.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
how do you elect a terrorist group ? How does that happen ?

I have not even heard one name of a Hamas leader who will run the country.

Just when things can get no worse. they do
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
you can "hope" in one hand, and crap in the other... then, tell me which one gets filled up first...lol


but,this "could" turn out to be a blessing in disguise...

maybe with ahmadinnerjacket in iran and hamas in "palestine", a divine gift has been given the west......enemies stupid enough to proclaim what they actually want to do...... now,maybe the 5th column in europe and the west(msm,extreme liberal left,france,norway,,etc)will understand the gravity of this situation....

they`re spelling it out for us.....


to tell you the truth,i don`t think hamas expected to sweep the elections..to win this big....i think they wanted seats.....i am not convinced that they`re entirely happy about being in charge....and having to form a government...it just might all collapse...could be a civil war....maybe that would take their evil little minds off israel for awhile...


it`s one thing to be a radical fringe group that espouses the destruction of a u.n. nation state....and another to be a recognized government doing same....


all the funds that israel had frozen and was repaying the pali`s will now dry up...i`d be surprised if the u.s. and some other western and euro nations stop the bread line...

what exactly is the base of the gaza economy that will support anything?..... automobile manufacturing?....steel production?....tomato paste?

do these people even pay taxes? utilities? ...

...the norway`s,maybe france, and the arab states and russia will still help them...but,it`s going to hurt...

the new german leader is not meeting with hamas on their coming trip to israel.....no schroeder...that`s a good thing...

what is worrisome is that hamas doesn't have the means yet to launch attacks of much consequence......the best they have been able to muster were lobbed rockets and suicide bombers......i say yet because iran, syria, and others would love to help them with some more sophisticated weapons......israel needs to finish that fence as quickly as possible......

israel now faces a potential 3 sided front in any pending war(syria/iran/palestine)....

'"" Hamas leaders meanwhile rejected as "blackmail" Western demands that it renounce violence against Israel"" .....
//Reuters


does it get any clearer?...

nice read,mjolnir....thanks for posting...
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
I agree, good article mj.

Also agree with KOD and GW for the most part.

I strongly agree with GW that Hamas did not expect this and does not want it. No way.

It would have been soooo much easier for them to continue to be the opposition with no responsibility to the citizens.

This will overwhelm them, logistically speaking, and it's hard to see anything but total chaos (even more so) ensuing.

Add to that that our aid and Europes aid that amount to many billions of dollars will end if they don't renounce terrorism, violence and the destruction of Israel. They have made clear that they won't do that.

Ok, fine. The only thing that had been keeping that government functioning was aid from America and other countries. They are bankrupt and always have been. Once the aid stops I can't see how they will be able to function as a government. And while Iran backs Hamas in every way, I can't see them wanting to bankroll an entire government. Big difference in subsidizing an organization and being responsible for bankrolling an entire country.

Unemployment is 60% there. There is no industry, there is no nothing. If only hate was a paid occupation, they'd be golden. Without Western aid, I can't see how they won't implode one way or another.

The result was somewhat surprising, but shouldn't really shock anybody who understands the extent that religion and hatred of Israel plays a part in the ME.

My gut instinct, similar to GW, is that this might not be the worst thing to have happened.
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
Definitely a scenario of "be careful what you wish for". Ahh I long for the goold ol days when i just had to put a blessing of Mmuhammed on the 19 year old suicide bomber as I checked to make sure he had the correct amount of TNT to take out a city bus. ....Hell, I could do that without even changing out of my pajamas. Now I'm gonna have to wake up at like 7 AM, take a shower (well that's still optional probably), dress in clothes, go to the office, find money where there is none, arrange for garbage pickups, school budgets, soup kitchens, answer angry phone calls from old ladies asking where Arafat is ....oh man my head hurts already. This sucks! Can't we just blow some shit up?
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
smurphy said:
Definitely a scenario of "be careful what you wish for". Ahh I long for the goold ol days when i just had to put a blessing of Mmuhammed on the 19 year old suicide bomber as I checked to make sure he had the correct amount of TNT to take out a city bus. ....Hell, I could do that without even changing out of my pajamas. Now I'm gonna have to wake up at like 7 AM, take a shower (well that's still optional probably), dress in clothes, go to the office, find money where there is none, arrange for garbage pickups, school budgets, soup kitchens, answer angry phone calls from old ladies asking where Arafat is ....oh man my head hurts already. This sucks! Can't we just blow some shit up?

lol- satirical, but oh so true.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
kosar....i think we sort of agree....but,don`t think i`m saying this is necessarily a "good thing"...i think it may interject some real clarity as far as what we`re dealing with here,though.....




that was downright "jewlicious",smurph..... :clap: :D
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
smurphy said:
Definitely a scenario of "be careful what you wish for". Ahh I long for the goold ol days when i just had to put a blessing of Mmuhammed on the 19 year old suicide bomber as I checked to make sure he had the correct amount of TNT to take out a city bus. ....Hell, I could do that without even changing out of my pajamas. Now I'm gonna have to wake up at like 7 AM, take a shower (well that's still optional probably), dress in clothes, go to the office, find money where there is none, arrange for garbage pickups, school budgets, soup kitchens, answer angry phone calls from old ladies asking where Arafat is ....oh man my head hurts already. This sucks! Can't we just blow some shit up?
...............................................................

thats a good one.... :mj07: :mj07:
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
gardenweasel said:
kosar....i think we sort of agree....but,don`t think i`m saying this is necessarily a "good thing"...i think it may interject some real clarity as far as what we`re dealing with here,though.....

I didn't say it was a 'good thing' either. I said it might not be the worst thing, as a lot of people seem to be saying.

I agree with the interjecting some clarity comment. I hope so. Starting with Bush.

His admin has underestimated religion and the hatred from that region every step of the way. WE CAN'T AND NEVER WILL CHANGE THEM! Just like they could never change us.

Maybe eventually he'll realize that it's not as simple as 'creating democracies' in the ME. That does not solve our problems and in fact may have done just the opposite.

Democracy?

Iraq- turned into a government run by the same types that run Iran. We'll really see the results once we leave. It's bad enough even with us there.

Palestine- enough said. A freakin' terror organization backed by Iran now is in power. The people spoke. :rolleyes: Hey, that's what Bush wanted, he just doesn't like the result.

Afghanistan- opium growers flourishing. Taliban still major problem. Like above, we'll see what happens once we leave.

So two countries governments now have extremely strong ties to Iran that didn't before. Iran is rattling it's saber, totally ignoring us and everybody else. We can't do shit because we're patrolling Iraq.

And people see this as progress? My God.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
OK I know I should probably know this, but why should the US continue to pay them billions in aid now ?

Why doesnt some of the rich mulim oil contries step in and help them establish schools, food programs, goverment, etc.

The US is so taken for granted. Our money going down the toilet to arafat for all them years. Let Hamas dish out the aid money and see how far that goes. They think they had corruption last year.

The people of palestine havnt seen nothing yet.

I know the area is poor and people are dieing there, but people die all over the world. Where is djv when we need him. I know he would hate to think about aid money that US spends every year.

I am going to have to do some research on Palestine I guess.

Since it may be the flash point for the end of the world as we know it.
 

kosar

Centrist
Forum Member
Nov 27, 1999
11,112
55
0
ft myers, fl
Scott-Atlanta said:
OK I know I should probably know this, but why should the US continue to pay them billions in aid now ?

Why doesnt some of the rich mulim oil contries step in and help them establish schools, food programs, goverment, etc.

The US is so taken for granted. Our money going down the toilet to arafat for all them years. Let Hamas dish out the aid money and see how far that goes. They think they had corruption last year.

The people of palestine havnt seen nothing yet.

I know the area is poor and people are dieing there, but people die all over the world. Where is djv when we need him. I know he would hate to think about aid money that US spends every year.

We won't continue to send them money and some European nations have said the same. Should be interesting to see what happens.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Aid is primarily designed to serve the strategic and economic interests of the donor countries;

Or [aid is primarily designed] to benefit powerful domestic interest groups;

Aid systems based on the interests of donors instead of the needs of recipients? make development assistance inefficient;

Too little aid reaches countries that most desperately need it; and,

All too often, aid is wasted on overpriced goods and services from donor countries.
....................................................................................

This is the first thing I found. It sounds to me like the billions of dollars that the US and other counrtries give out in aid, also benifits them in some way. And lets face it, the money ends up lining the pockets of our politicians and money grubbers . Kinda like a Haliburton thingee.

Geezz it really is frustrating when you look for good and all you find is slaps in the face over and over.

There is no justice or generosity in this world. Just money grubbing hound dogs.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
i`m not jewish(or my name would probably be saul,too).... :lol:

but,i do defend them...i know that jews are bashed as money grubbers...and hated all over the world...blamed for all sorts of stuff...maybe some of it`s legit...most of it`s b.s...


certainly,they don`t deserve genocide...


and that`s why i`m inclined to take their backs...

their position in the world reminds me of the canary in the coal mine...

an example would be germany`s treatment of the jews in the lead up to ww2 and their invasion of europe and russia....

and now with muslim fanatics in the middle east...the jews being the boogeyman once again...the rationale for all sorts of bad behavior......and their excuse...for a a religious fanatacism that is reaching far beyond just their beef with the jews....

scary stuff...
 

smurphy

cartographer
Channel Member
Jul 31, 2004
19,910
135
63
16
L.A.
Saul was not offended - do not worry Mr. Weasel. In fact, he himself has probably done more to set the Jewish cause backwards than the Germans.

.....is that Hamas cartoon character Yogi Bear?
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
Palestinians Nervous, Circulating Hamas Jokes

The Associated Press reports that some Palestinians are nervous that Hamas might do exactly what they’ve said many times they will do, and impose strict Islamic law:

" Nervous Palestinians Circulate Hamas Jokes."

RAMALLAH, West Bank - A slew of jokes circulating among Palestinians following Hamas’ landslide election victory reflects concerns that the fundamentalist group will impose Islamic law and social codes across the West Bank and Gaza.

As one goes, ....

""all police stations in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have been ordered shut because all complaints must now be filed directly to God.""

bud-um bum.....

:mj07: :lol:

did that joke "kill"....or" bomb"?........ :142smilie
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Money from other sources?
Last year the European Union gave the Palestinian Authority $615 million, money vital for its survival.

The United States, which has given more than $1.5 billion in aid to the Palestinians since 1993, has begun a full review of its assistance programs to the Palestinians since Hamas swept the polls last week. For 2006, the United States had budgeted $234 million in assistance to the Palestinians.

Hamas has rejected as ?blackmail? Western demands that it renounce violence against Israel or risk losing aid. It also suggested it could look for alternative sources of funding in the Arab world and beyond.

One risk of completing cutting off funds to a Hamas-led government in the Palestinian territories is that Iran and Syria might fill the gap.

Rice scoffed at suggestions these countries could fill the gap, saying Hamas risked losing money from financial institutions, Asia, Europe and elsewhere. ?This is a pretty big gap.?

Former U.S. ambassador to Israel and to Egypt, Ned Walker, said Rice would try her best to convince all members of the Quartet that the time had come to draw the line on Hamas.

?They need the money, this is not the time to get weak and let Hamas dictate terms,? Walker told Reuters.
...............................................................................

Iran and Syria arent giving money to anyone. That shouldnt be a worry.

I guess the easy way out for Hamas is to say ... OK OK we arnt going to do anything and we now believe in the right for Israel to
live in peace.

Then just do like Iran go undercover.
 

THE KOD

Registered
Forum Member
Nov 16, 2001
42,497
260
83
Victory Lane
Exxon Mobil Sees Record Profit for U.S. Co.
IRVING, Texas ? Exxon Mobil Corp. posted record profits for any U.S. company on Monday ? $10.71 billion for the fourth quarter and $36.13 billion for the year ? as the world's biggest publicly traded oil company benefited from high oil and gas prices and demand for refined products. The results exceeded Wall Street expectations and Exxon shares rose nearly 3 percent on premarket trading.

The company's earnings amounted to $1.71 per share for the October-December quarter, up from $8.42 billion, or $1.30 per share, in the year ago quarter. The result topped the then-record quarterly profit of $9.92 billion Exxon posted in the third quarter of 2005.

Exxon's profit for the year was also the largest annual reported net income in U.S. history, according to Howard Silverblatt, a stock market analyst for Standard & Poor's. He said the previous high was Exxon's $25.3 billion profit in 2004.

......................................................................................

The Middle East. This all ties in together.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
Forum Member
Jan 10, 2002
40,575
226
63
"the bunker"
sean mccormack...state dept spokesman at the daily press briefing on 01/27/06.....

QUESTION: I would like to go back to the figures. Can you tell us how much in 2005-2006 USAID channeled through NGOs and how much was gave to UN for UNRWA?



"MR. MCCORMACK: Now, as for FY2005, the total there was $225 million in assistance to the Palestinians through USAID. That was 2005. In addition to that, the U.S. Government provided a contribution of $88 million to the General Fund in 2005. This is for the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees in the Near East, UNRWA. The acronym for that is U-N- R-W-A. So for -- then, in addition to that, in 2005 you had the $70 million that I talked about. That was direct assistance to the Palestinian Authority.

So you had three -- in 2005, three different, I guess, channels, if you want to think about it that way: 70 million direct assistance; 225 in USAID money; and then 88 million to UNRWA. "

so it's 225 + 88 + 70 = $383 million US...

i don`t care how much the e.u. gives,this has to hurt them...

i
 
Bet on MyBookie
Top