ok, backdoor poker games, what's legal and what's not???

SixFive

bonswa
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Mar 12, 2001
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if the house/host takes a rake and you're not playing in a casino, is it always against the law?

How about if the host provides food and beverage? Please give me some insight here.

Talking about poker here. Would love to keep playing at this certain place, but I don't really want to be involved in a illegal activity either. If it is illegal (which I think it is even with the freebies), would I as a player be charged, or if the game was raided, would they just bust the host? Thanks.
 

ripken8

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if when you gave the secret password to the guy at the door, and noticed he was packing, everything is probably on the up and up...
 

taoist

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...different laws in different states and different attitudes amongst DA's, but my guess would be (and this would be true herein Tennessee) that "promoting gambling" is a much greater offense than just gambling. (i.e. The host would catch the brunt of it and the rest of you would be only charged with misdemeanors.)

...with that in mind, some DA's push hard on the little fish with threats and whatnot in order to get you to testify against the host on the greater offense.

Basically, it is very dependent on the local sheriff dept and DA's as to how badly they are looking to close down some of these places.
 

countinguy

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It is illegal, but here in Indy I've only heard of one game getting busted and basically only the players received $60 fines. They won't arrest u for that here, jail are already overfilled. The only reason this one place got busted, it was in somebody's house and a neighbor didn't like people parking in front of house, and of course the player told him to f.off.

There is least 5 games w/in 5 mins of my house now, probably close to 10 to 25 in the city any nite of the week.

I would be more worried about these places getting raided on election years, because the cops know where all of them are at, cops play in them.
 

toastonastick

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In GA if ANY of the proceeds go to a charity then it is legal. Many bars run games and donate a small percentage to charity while still getting a nice rake.
 

wareagle

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www.dunavant.com
Monday, December 20, 2004

Poker players, police seeing who will blink first
By John Bebow
Chicago Tribune staff reporter

The new guy called himself "Bobby." He looked to be in his 40s, by far the oldest player in a weekly Sunday night Texas Hold 'Em poker game between waiters and college students in Logan Square.

As usual, $20 was all it took to get into the small-stakes game on Dec. 5 in David Sarrett's apartment. On the fifth hand, two queens slid face down across the green felt and stopped in front of the new guy, giving him a premium hand. But "Bobby," an undercover vice cop, didn't play the cards. He was playing a different game.

"Gambling police--game's over," Sarrett recalled three more plainclothes officers suddenly announcing after he saw them outside and welcomed them in.

"Yeah, sure," said Sarrett, 28, a tall, thin waiter who's glad to deal cards to strangers and likes to take a pull from a bottle of Wild Turkey after winning big pots. "We'll make room for you."

"No, really," an officer said. "Gambling police. Game's over."With poker chips flying off store shelves and legions of newbies saying "Deal me in" after watching televised Hold 'Em tournaments, Chicago police are using the Internet to scout illegal card games in private homes.

"We're just starting to write a few more [misdemeanor gambling tickets] now," police spokesman David Bayless said. "Since the emergence of poker as a fad, we're going to be looking at it. We're always advising people not to invite strangers into their homes."

Home gambling, including small-time poker games, is illegal under Chicago's municipal code and Illinois law. The $20 it costs to enter Sarrett's game is chump change in a thriving local underground poker circuit where pots can reach hundreds, or even thousands, of dollars. Yet Sarrett and several of his guests that night face fines of up to $200 at a February court hearing.

News of the bust spread quickly through a network of dozens of Chicago card players--computer programmers, lawyers, accountants, doctors, theater performers, and others from many walks of life--who communicate online.

They are changing locations and schedules, closing games to strangers--and shaking their heads at the police attention.

"Like they don't have anything else to do than bust $20 card games," said James McManus, a high-stakes player and Chicago author of the popular poker tome, "Positively Fifth Street."

"It's pretty outrageous," McManus said. "But we live in the worst poker city I know. The legislature is very hostile to poker. They want us putting our money in slot machines and lottery tickets."

In the last month, police ticketed 18 card players in a North Myrtle Beach, S.C., hotel room, raided a late-night game with an entry fee of $1,000 in Greensboro, N.C., and seized $30,000 from the leader of a Brockton, Mass., game in a building that also housed a day-care center.

In Chicago, police said their motivation is to break up organized poker rings where hosts pocket a "rake"--a percentage of the pot.

"It's the games that are being hosted for profit that are of concern to us because those could escalate into higher stakes and people not being able to cover their bets," Bayless said. "We're not going after weekly, friendly home games."

Suburban police officials said they've noticed the poker fad but haven't found reason to start busting games. Skokie police broke up one game with a rake about 18 months ago, but none since, said Sgt. Scott Anderson.

"In July we had kids shooting craps in front of the library," said Oak Park Deputy Chief Bob Scianna. "But we've had no complaints about poker."

Sarrett argued that his game in Logan Square is the definition of friendly, no-rake poker.

"If they're writing me a ticket, it's pretty much the end of finding friendly games online," Sarrett said.

Sarrett said he opened his house to poker players in April after watching Hold `Em tournaments on television.

"It's been spoon-fed to us," he said. "It's the new craze."

He's hosted all but three Sundays since. The game starts at 11 p.m. and ends at 6 a.m. "By then, either someone's lost too much or gotten too drunk," Sarrett said, estimating that about 30 different people--many of them strangers--have sampled the game in the last eight months.

Some players, including "Bobby" the undercover cop, discovered Sarrett's game through a Web site called homepokergames.com. It lists about 200 active games across Illinois, 4,000 games nationwide and 6,000 players looking for action, said Kieran Kiely, 31, who started the site about 18 months ago.

Carter Sims, 20, a sophomore at the University of Illinois-Chicago and a regular at Sarrett's game, said he heard from "Bobby" after posting notice of a game on homepokergames.com. Sims invited the newcomer to Sarrett's house. When "Bobby" showed up, he tried to buy in for $200--10 times the normal amount, Sarrett and Sims said.

"They thought they were breaking up a much bigger game," Sims said.

Sarrett and Sims said police seized all $160 players had on the table that night. Bayless confirmed the seizure was about $200. He stopped short of saying police were disappointed in the bust, but said "you always want to get the big fish."

Other game organizers have scrambled to make sure they're not next on "Bobby's" hit list.

One host, for example, now announces upcoming "seminars" instead of card games. Another, North Sider Hal Kilgore, has closed his e-mail list to new players "due to recent security concerns." He said he hosts an occasional game without a rake.

Police attention "is certainly not going to stop us from playing, but we are going to be more careful about who we invite," Kilgore said. "I think we're at a point now where we have a solid core of players we can trust."

As police seized the cards, cash, and a handful of chips as evidence, Sarrett's crowd noticed "Bobby's" wasted pair of queens. The bust was over by midnight. When the cops left, the players pulled fresh $20 bills from their wallets, stacked more chips, cut a fresh deck, and played almost until dawn.

"If they're writing me a ticket, it's pretty much the end of finding friendly games online," Sarrett said.

Sarrett said he opened his house to poker players in April after watching Hold `Em tournaments on television.

"It's been spoon-fed to us," he said. "It's the new craze."

He's hosted all but three Sundays since. The game starts at 11 p.m. and ends at 6 a.m. "By then, either someone's lost too much or gotten too drunk," Sarrett said, estimating that about 30 different people--many of them strangers--have sampled the game in the last eight months.

Some players, including "Bobby" the undercover cop, discovered Sarrett's game through a Web site called homepokergames.com. It lists about 200 active games across Illinois, 4,000 games nationwide and 6,000 players looking for action, said Kieran Kiely, 31, who started the site about 18 months ago.

Carter Sims, 20, a sophomore at the University of Illinois-Chicago and a regular at Sarrett's game, said he heard from "Bobby" after posting notice of a game on homepokergames.com. Sims invited the newcomer to Sarrett's house. When "Bobby" showed up, he tried to buy in for $200--10 times the normal amount, Sarrett and Sims said.

"They thought they were breaking up a much bigger game," Sims said.

Sarrett and Sims said police seized all $160 players had on the table that night. Bayless confirmed the seizure was about $200. He stopped short of saying police were disappointed in the bust, but said "you always want to get the big fish."

Other game organizers have scrambled to make sure they're not next on "Bobby's" hit list.

One host, for example, now announces upcoming "seminars" instead of card games. Another, North Sider Hal Kilgore, has closed his e-mail list to new players "due to recent security concerns." He said he hosts an occasional game without a rake.

Police attention "is certainly not going to stop us from playing, but we are going to be more careful about who we invite," Kilgore said. "I think we're at a point now where we have a solid core of players we can trust."

As police seized the cards, cash, and a handful of chips as evidence, Sarrett's crowd noticed "Bobby's" wasted pair of queens. The bust was over by midnight. When the cops left, the players pulled fresh $20 bills from their wallets, stacked more chips, cut a fresh deck, and played almost until dawn.

Copyright ? 2004, Chicago Tribune
 

Taximike

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I think i can speak from experience, since i have actually had my own house game busted a couple years ago. It IS illegal to operate, deal, or play in a game in which a rake is taken.(there is a grey area concerning games which just rake for expenses, but my game, and every local game i've played in, raked far more money than went to expenses). The charges we recieved were the same....... misdemeanors, but a second offense allows for a felony charge. As others have already mentioned however, it all depends on the local authorities and if they have motivation to bust games.
 

dogface

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Taoist, I hope you got my thanks you e-mail! If not I will resend when I get bakc from Vegas.

Sixfive-

On KFAN i n MN, they have on Wednesday a free call in with a Lawyer called Barrister's Brunch, and this question was broached in the summer after the NFL players got busted in Carolina or someplace SE.

He basically said it is illegal only if a rake is taken, but you are allowed to receive money "at door" for costs of goods supplied, if you did indeed provide them. (ex. Beer, Chips, etc.)

TSI

Of coruse laws in your area may differ, but in MN that is the info he provided.
 

IE

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41 arrested in Hold 'Em raids

State and local authorities raided two social clubs on Denver's East Colfax Avenue over the weekend and arrested 41 people on charges of illegal gambling, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation said Monday.
The Saturday night raids capped off a three-month investigation into the Hop Sing Tong, 4130 E. Colfax Ave., and the Asian International Inc., 7520 E. Colfax Ave., the CBI said.

The probe into the two clubs began after the Colorado Division of Gaming alleged that licensed dealers might be involved in illegal Texas Hold 'Em poker games in Denver.

Agents seized about $9,000 in cash during the busts. Authorities handed out 41 summonses charging illegal gambling and professional gambling to the men and women who were at the two locations.

They were ordered to appear in Denver County Court on March 10, Bob Brown, CBI's agent in charge, said. Most of those taken into custody were fingerprinted, photographed and released.

cont'.......

http://rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4465493,00.html
 

DBLMUTZ

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jez if it feels good go 4 it,ITS A CARD GAME,Oh no..... is that the berlin wall goin up!!! we need laws but if the state aint raking they'll screw u , fark them,i can bet on anyfriggin thing in my state but if i call joe down the street an get6 caught for a football bet.......................fu ck em play your cards
 

acehistr8

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Personally I would never play in or hold a raked home game. First of all I think its sh1tty to do since I mostly play with guys I know and I wouldnt think of trying to freaking make money off a rake. Second, there are too many games around to go play with a guy thats going to ding every pot taken. On small stakes games (antyhing under 3/6 or small NL games) if he is still raking the pot, it could statistically be an impossible game to beat (What are you taking $2-$3 a pot? At 40 hands an hour at a slow game, say thats $100 an hour in your pocket, but coming off the table. Nice.). I mean you guys hold home games with guys you know and play with often and you rake them for more than you may provide trying to make money off the rake? Nice. Personally I buy a couple cases of beer for everyone and thats that, anything else and they bring their own.
 
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SixFive

bonswa
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acehistr8 said:
Personally I would never play in or hold a raked home game. First of all I think its sh1tty to do since I mostly play with guys I know and I wouldnt think of trying to freaking make money off a rake. Second, there are too many games around to go play with a guy thats going to ding every pot taken. On small stakes games (antyhing under 3/6 or small NL games) if he is still raking the pot, it could statistically be an impossible game to beat (What are you taking $2-$3 a pot? At 40 hands an hour at a slow game, say thats $100 an hour in your pocket, but coming off the table. Nice.). I mean you guys hold home games with guys you know and play with often and you rake them for more than you may provide trying to make money off the rake? Nice. Personally I buy a couple cases of beer for everyone and thats that, anything else and they bring their own.

this would be a second game. The one I play in every 2 weeks is a friendly one with no rake and everybody deals their own. This other one, I have just been there once, but the players sucked so bad; that's why I want to go back. I think it's somebody getting too big for his britches to tell you the truth. It's also run out of a business and not somebody's home if that makes any difference.
 

pd1

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Here in mid missouri a couple of the lodges run weekly games. Acouple of weeeks ago rumor had it the game was going to get busted. One of members went to the state gaming commision and they said as long as some of the money went to charity everything was on the up and up. Most games are $25 +$5 with the $5 going to the lodge. As far as a backroom game with a rake goes I would say don't let it get too big, and invite only people u know.
 
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