Has anyone EVER changed their political opinion?

[Penguinfan]

I don't contribute much in this forum except to remind Charles Manson that he's a dumbass and the occasional one liner, but I am curious if all the bickering and arguing back and forth has ever changed anyones opinion of thier respective Party or the President or any issue whatsoever?

Seems to me you see the same people on the same side reguardless of what the facts are. Dems will be Dems and Republicans will be Republicans reguardless of how good or bad the administration is doing, so whats the point in arguing if nobody will respect the others opinion?

I honestly think I am the only person ever to change thier mind about a sitting President. I actually voted for GW in 2000 but seeing the horrible job him and his cronies have done I am sorry for it.

Not saying that Kerry was my choice in 04, but why is it so dificult for Republicans to say that the current administration sucks? Why is it so hard for Democrats to admit that Hillary is a ****ing nut case?

I don't understand why people MUST have thier parties glasses on before they look at ANY situation.

If GW went and gunned down a school bus full of children, BELIEVE ME there would be people in here explaining how they were probably children of terrorist and thus a threat to the countries future and it needed done. On the flip side if he found a cure for cancer the Dems would say how cancer wasn't that big of a threat to begin with and he deserves no credit for it.

Obviously I am exagerating those points, but the seniment remains the same.

Can't people see things for what they are?

 

[Chadman]

Well, I would agree that the conservatives in this forum never listen to reason, nor admit being wrong all the time... :thumb:

I actually think that at times we do come to the center on some issues around here, and the only times we can't discuss things semi-rationally is when things become personal and the name-calling starts.

I know that I have learned interesting things against points I've made and have changed how I have felt about some things due to the thinking posted here. I do tend to argue more with people who never allow for a differing viewpoint, however, and will look longer and harder to stick to my guns with those individuals.

Finally, I would say this. Bush Sucks... :fingerc:

 

[ctownguy]

I think the main reason at least for me is the way the political system is set up in this country.

I know I have said this before, but for a person's vote to actual mean anything after all is said and done JUST 2 CHOICES Republican or democrat.

So for me my core beliefs all run along the conservative side, for me to change my political view in the system we have would be to change EVERYTHING I BELIEVE IN TO VOTE FOR THE OTHER SIDE and that is not going to happen. I'm sure that many on the other side have the same opinion.

Basically and yes I know this is a generalization, but it is close to being the way it is.

democrats BIG BIG GOV/SOCIALIZED PROGRAMS/TAX THE POPULATION TO DEATH TO ACHIEVE THESE GOALS/WEAK ON DEFENSE/BIG ON UNITED NATIONS

Republicans essentially the opposite except for Bush spending this time, but you can see what I mean.

 

[djv]

The thing that gets me is some folks just stand by a party and never give a inch. Or admit when there guys screw some thing up.
I voted the person not the party. Big mistakes I made. Nixon, Carter, Bush 43. Things I feel I did right. Bush 41, Clinton. And not to bad Reagan once. Bush 43 I thought was the right time for change and I just could not vote for Gore. But after 4 years I could have voted for anyone but Bush again. I just wish someone a little better then Kerry would have been available. We really need a strong third party. But the two parties and lobbyist will never let that happen. And that is dam sad. And in the end cost all of us.

 

[AR182]

pf....

very good topic....

i was a card carrying liberal in the 60's & 70's...& over the years i changed my views & regretted some of my votes...

i handed out flyers for eugene mccarthy in the 68 election....

voted for carter in 1976......& saw what a horrible president he was (he was in over his head), i regretted that i voted for him.....

went the other way in 1980 & voted for reagan because i couldn't stand (my hatred has grown of him) carter as our leader.....& my politics started changing. as i started making more money & realized that being a liberal is not the way to go....

sat out the next election because i thought reagan was too old & thought dukakis (sp?) would be in over his head.....

voted for bush sr. in 1988 because i thought he was very qualified for the presidency (having various jobs in gov't)......

voted for clinton in 92 because i realized i over estimated bush sr. desire to be pres......

although i became annoyed at clinton's behavior, i still voted for him in 96...although i really liked bob dole.....thought he would have been a very good president but didn't vote for him because of his age......

in 2000 i voted for al bore, er i mean al gore & was very annoyed with how the election came out ....especially that farce in fla.....

after 9/11 my politics changed even more was happy that gore lost (the worst politician in my time)....i was also impressed with how bush handled the various problems after that...i also think that the iraq war was the correct decision (but that's for another discussion)...

voted for bush in 04 & haven't regretted it yet, although there are some things i wish he did differently (better communication with the american public,correcting the border mess, etc) i think he has done pretty well under very difficult times ( also for another discussion)....

although i'm now a card carry independent, right now i don't see myself voting democratic again (except for lieberman)....i think they have become a joke of a party with people like dean, kennedy, etc leading the way....i think that most of them are out of touch with mainstream america.....

in 08 i would love seeing a mccain/guiliani ticket.....but doubt that will happen......

so there is 30 years of me regretting & changing my political views.....

 

[gardenweasel]

i`m really bending over backwards to defend bush on this ports issue.....

i may think that the dems` motives are questionable...but,i think they`ve got it right...

doesn`t change the fact that i think this deal is not only bad...it was ineptly handled....

 

[shamrock]

PF, I asked this question years ago. To me voting strictly along party lines, or "how my daddy taught me", is the highest form of shallow thinking.

Guys like c town say incorrectly there is only 2 choices. Well every individual election is a choice, every candidate is a choice. There are people that would vote a ex child abusing idiot over a --- United Way man of the year Rhode scholar just because he was Democrat or vice versa. Its really sad, people have to think they are part of something, its really akin to gang mentality. Their gang is always correct.

 

[ctownguy]

PF, I asked this question years ago. To me voting strictly along party lines, or "how my daddy taught me", is the highest form of shallow thinking.

Guys like c town say incorrectly there is only 2 choices. Well every individual election is a choice, every candidate is a choice. There are people that would vote a ex child abusing idiot over a --- United Way man of the year Rhode scholar just because he was Democrat or vice versa. Its really sad, people have to think they are part of something, its really akin to gang mentality. Their gang is always correct.

Please explain how I am wrong. Even in your explanation it still boils down to 2 choices. You really think that voting for the rhodes scholar because of the man is right if your liberal and he is Republican and he proceeds to represent his party with lower taxes cutting welfare abolishing abortion etc, but you would stand up and say I voted for the man because he was a rhodes scholar.

You are a bigger idiot than I thought.

 

[dawgball]

I guess I have become tuned in on who to read (on both sides) and who to ignore because I actually think there are some very healthy and insightful debates that go on in this forum. Hell, we even have aspirations of starting our own party! See our Sergeant of Arms, smurphy, for more details.

I have been persuaded on several issues by points that have been brought up here.

And I am someone who voted for Bush, thinks that he has done an above average job on most items taking into account all of the bad shit that has happened, but am losing patience on certain items being handled by this administration. I am still support this admin, but I am losing conviction with my backing of them.

On a flip note, I would do it the same again if my other choice was John Kerry (or Hillary in '08).

 

[StevieD]

I know no one will believe me but I usually vote for the man I think I can trust over the party. I think Bush handled things pretty good in the days after 911. I even think he was slow in going after the Taliban. His invasion of Iraq however has turned me completely against the man. I feel he sold us down the river and has left us unprotected. I think the 911 Comminsion and Katrina and it's aftermath bore me out.
Now, I would vote for Hillary over Bush or anyone associated with him. But I would vote Romney over Hillary.

 

[shamrock]

Dawg-see I have no qualms with your way of thinking what so ever. Obviously your conservative, but if there was a Democrat other than Kerry or Hillary, to your liking, you wouldn't just automatically vote Republican.

ct, can't say the same to him, there is no choice, only 1 duty, punch that ticket Red. Doesn't matter if he knows nothing of the candidate, or worse knows lots of negative characteristics. If the grand wizard kkk could run (like David Duke), somehow against Jesus himself, you'd feel compelled to vote that party home. You're mind is already made for you, regardless of class, character, ideals, morals, etc. your voting Red.

 

[ctownguy]

Why don't you address the issue I have raised now twice instead of just repeating yourself,
BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ANSWER THAT'S WHY.

 

[smurphy]

I was a bible-thumping Reagan loving neocon in high school. Then I actually began to learn a thing or 2 about a thing or 2.

I think people are more centrist overall than it appears sometimes here. The last 5 years have really forced people to choose extremes, so it makes it appear that Right and Left are further apart than they really are. I'm tired of claiming to be centrist when I land opposite Bush so much, so I'll just wait til this bastard is gone and start over with a reasonable political identity.

 

[SixFive]

can't think of any significant changes in opinion, but I can think of several things that I am not as adamantly for/against now. I said it before the last election, and I'll say it again. Please give me some shred of a viable democratic candidate, and I'll give a lot of thought to voting for them. Kerry and Gore are leftist extremists, and I could not vote for them ever. We need a good, conservative Democratic candidate as a choice. Wake up Democratic leadership and smell the roses. Your candidates have sucked and that's why you were out of the WH these 2 terms. Give us somebody that the majority of the population can relate to! I hate casting my vote against a candidate rather than for somebody I like, but that's what I find myself doing both nationally and locall most of the time. :violin:

 

[Master Capper]

I vote for the best person regardless of party and have voted for a 3rd party on occassions. This current administration has really turned me against the current Conservative agenda as the corruption and graft that has gone on under their watch is an embarassment to the american people.

 

[s_dooley24]

I am predominantly conservative on almost all the issues, but one thing I could care less about is abortion. I think you will find the younger generation (under 25 or so--myself a part of---) is more indifferent on the issue of abortion. I base my voting decisions bascially on the economic agenda/view/handling or whatever have you of that candidate because that is what I am most knowledgeable about. I support leaving more money in the hands of individuals and corporations who are more accountable and not as inept as all the levels of Gov't are in spending and investing capital. I can blow and lose my money on my own. I don't need the Gov't to do that for me.

1 of the best things i think George W. Bush has done...dividend tax law (basically encourages companies to pay out higher dividends, b/c they're no longer taxed as high or double-taxed)

1 of the things George W. Bush has done that infuriates me is all the subsidies to industries (especially farming)

Also, all the argument be it for or against the retaining tax cuts should be looked at a different way. If the gov't really wanted to help the American people they would take the money they were going to give back to us and instead pay down the deficit with it. We are paying interest on the deficit in the forms or T-Bills issued by the Gov't.

Simple view you (average american) live at home and pay your parents (fed gov't) rent money (say ($500) because they still have a mortgage on the house. Your parents decide they're going to give you a break (say $50) on rent for whatever reason. You have two options:

1. Decide to take the $50 and spend as you please, but you continue to pay rent even after your parent's mortagage is paid off

or

2. Tell you parents to keep the $50 a month and use it to pay down the mortagage quicker. So, that when the mortgage is paid off both YOU and YOUR parents live rent free

And no well you wouldn't want to live at home for 30 yrs remark...look past that and see the point I am trying to make which is this...

Individuals and other countries buying our debt are allowing the Fed Gov't to wield a huge credit card. And instead of them paying down the debt that incurs regular interest they're giving us "tax-Breaks" All in all we will lose in the end because no one's credit (even that of the US Gov't) lasts forever and people will come calling for their payments

After that rant, to tie back to the original purpose of this thread is that I would vote for a Democratic candidate who promised to keep the dividend tax law (which has been threatened by Dems), eliminate the ridiculous amounts of subsidies, and vowed to pay down the deficit. Let me know when you guys find one and I'll greatly consider him/her...

 

[smurphy]

I appreciate that rant on the tax cuts. I try to explain that to people, but they just don't get it. People can't see the big picture of how the tax cut hurts the country in the long run.

 

[Penguinfan]

I appreciate that rant on the tax cuts. I try to explain that to people, but they just don't get it. People can't see the big picture of how the tax cut hurts the country in the long run.

Not to run my own thread off topic, but I have to chime in here and say not only do I agree with you guys in the issue of tax cuts, it drives me right up the ****ing wall when they talk about how much help it will be to the economy if they raise minimum wage. If you can't figure out how much of a negative raising minimum wage is then don't bother responding.


Back slightly on topic, I hate my brother-in-law because he openly and proudly says he will vote for the guy who is against abortion because it is the single most important issue our country is facing, ****ing idiot. It's not the most important issue by a long shot, and even if it were, what has your boy Bush done in 8 years to end abortion, or any president for that matter?

It's an issue that wll be fought over for decades, can't we go ahead and look at the other issues when we elect a president, dickhead.

 

[kosar]

Back slightly on topic, I hate my brother-in-law because he openly and proudly says he will vote for the guy who is against abortion because it is the single most important issue our country is facing, ****ing idiot. It's not the most important issue by a long shot, and even if it were, what has your boy Bush done in 8 years to end abortion, or any president for that matter?

It's an issue that wll be fought over for decades, can't we go ahead and look at the other issues when we elect a president, dickhead.

lol @ that rant. You're on a roll lately, Pengy!

 

[s_dooley24]

I appreciate that rant on the tax cuts. I try to explain that to people, but they just don't get it. People can't see the big picture of how the tax cut hurts the country in the long run.

Tax-cuts are good, but paying down the deficit makes more sense financially (both short and long term---but not politically anytime) b/c it takes money out of the Goverment's hands and anytime you can do that is what I am all for. If this administration/congress or a future one gets rid of these tax cuts you can't possibly believe that the money ear-marked for tax cuts is going to go to pay down the deficit. Tax cuts are beneficial, but not as beneficial as getting our arms around this deficit.