This forum needs to get a grip

[ctownguy]

What the hell is wrong with you guys on both sides.

First of all UAE is one of our staunches allies in the middle east, 2nd only to Israel, but they pay their own way.

They let us house a huge military presence there to have a foot hold in the region. Unlimited use of their port facilities for military and commercial use.

Have any of you noticed the city of Dubai, it is as modern and Americanized as NY or LA. You all keep saying this is not racists, what the hell else would you call it. To hear all of you popping off, you must think every Arab is a fanatical Islamic terrorist.

So you must think all Blacks are no good welfare cheats, or all Mexicans are illegal and farm workers.
HOW ASSININE TO THINK THAT AN ALLY OF OURS WHO MIRRORS THEIR CITIES AND INDUSTRIES AFTER OURS WOULD JEAPORDIZE ALL THAT TO DO BUSINESS WITHA BUNCH OF FANATICAL SAND MONKEYTHUGS.

If I'm not mistaken when is last time you have seen the fanatical Islamic terrorist's groups live anywhere but in sand caves and tents in the middle of nowhere. I know a bit of a generalization, but you can see where UAE uses it's power and money.

Yea, Yea they did recognize the taliban, but after 9/11 they completely cut off relations with them and no longer recognized them as a legit govt.

Another thing the U S Coast Guard is still the number one and primary group responsible for the security of all U S ports. They are still the Captain of the court and handle ALL SECURITY.

I'm glad our WW II generations didn't feel like you nervous nellies, without Russia we might not have been able to defeat Germany or at least it would have taken a hell of alot longer.

Listen if they the terrorists want access to this country they have a hundred or thousand different ways to do it AND IT WON'T BE THRU ONE OF OUR STAUNCHES ALLIES.

SURE IT SHOULD BE CAREFULLY LOOKED AT, BUT NICK WAS DEFINITELY RIGHT AND BELIEVE ME I HARDLY EVER, IF EVER, AGREE WITH HIM.

GET A GRIP AND DON'T LET YOUR BUSH HATING MENTALITY GET IN THE WAY, WHICH I KNOW FOR A FEW OF YOU THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[smurphy]

I'm glad our WW II generations didn't feel like you nervous nellies, without Russia we might not have been able to defeat Germany or at least it would have taken a hell of alot longer.

Oooookay, did we allow Russia access and control of our ports? Yet another completely irrelevant WW2 analogy. Those sure our popular around here. And Saddam is Hitler as well, right?

Yes, you and Nick in agreement. This topic has formed some unexpected alliances. For the first time in a long time it's basically all logical people versus the loony extremes of each party. It's very refreshing. The logical people have been divided by the parties for too long.

Dubai is modern! Wow. Yeah, so was Baghdad, so is Riyadh, so is Tehran. All you have to do is think logically. As Gardenweasel said - "This is too important to roll the dice on". Good for UAE for whatever open-mindedness and fight against terrorism it is doing. The day Islam opens up will be the day we should open up. Until then, we are absolutely stupid to do this.

 

[gecko]

This deal cut with the UAE surely puts the administration between a rock and a hard place. I'm not totally against it, but the lack of foresight and understanding by this administration is troubling indeed. What, Bush didn't know about the deal? Who's minding the store? Sheer imcompetence!

Yeah, I know that Dubai is modernized, has one of the swankiest hotel resorts in the world, and hosts one a heck of a tennis tourney (going on right now) to boot. Do I trust their goverment in managing our ports? Maybe.

You have to keep in mind that "thugs" aren't just in the mountains or in the streets burning our flags and shouting "Down with USA." No, they also exist in the most opulent palaces and richest regions of the Arab world.

So let's proceed with some open dialogue between government officials from the federal and local levels. Let's hear pros and cons from both sides. And lets hear from the UAE what concessions they're willing to adhere to for our sake. I want to see how willing they are to bend over backwards for us and our security.




But here is some food for thought.....



1995-2001:


After the Taliban takes control of the area around Kandahar, Afghanistan, in September 1994, prominent Persian Gulf state officials and businessmen, including high-ranking United Arab Emirates and Saudi government ministers, frequently secretly fly into Kandahar on state and private jets for hunting expeditions. General Wayne Downing, Bush's former national director for combating terrorism, says: ?They would go out and see Osama, spend some time with him, talk with him, you know, live out in the tents, eat the simple food, engage in falconing, some other pursuits, ride horses. One noted visitor is Sheik Mohammed ibn Rashid al Maktum, United Arab Emirates Defense Minister and Crown Prince for the emirate of Dubai.? While there, some develop ties to the Taliban and al-Qaeda and give them money.





October 1996-early 2002:


Russian arms merchant Victor Bout, who has been selling weapons to Afghanistan's Northern Alliance since 1992, switches sides, and begins selling weapons to the Taliban and al-Qaeda instead. Bout formerly worked for the Russian KGB, and now operates the world's largest private weapons transport network. Based in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), Bout operates freely there until well after 9/11. US pressure on the UAE in November 2000 to close down Bout's operations there is ignored. Press reports calling him ?the merchant of death? also fail to pressure the UAE. After President Bush is elected, it appears the US gives up trying to get Bout, until after 9/11.





September 21, 1999:


German intelligence is periodically tapping suspected al-Qaeda operative Mohammed Haydar Zammar's telephone, and on this day investigators hear Zammar call hijacker Marwan Alshehhi. Alshehhi, living in the United Arab Emirates at the time, calls Zammar frequently. German intelligence asks the United Arab Emirates to identify the number and the caller, but the request is not answered.





June 29, 2000-September 18, 2000:


Someone using the aliases ?Isam Mansour,? ?Mustafa Ahmed al-Hisawi,? ?Mr. Ali,? and ?Hani (Fawaz Trdng)? sends a total of $109,910 to the 9/11 hijackers in a series of transfers between these dates. The money is sent from Sharjah, an emirate in the United Arab Emirates that is allegedly a center for al-Qaeda's illegal financial dealings. It appears that most of the money is sent to an account shared by Marwan Alshehhi and Mohamed Atta, who would obtain money orders and distribute the money to the other hijackers.





January 30, 2001:


Hijacker Ziad Jarrah is questioned for several hours at the Dubai International Airport, United Arab Emirates, at the request of the CIA for ?suspected involvement in terrorist activities,? then let go. Jarrah had already been in the US for six months learning to fly.





September 8-11, 2001:


The 9/11 hijackers send money to and receive money from a man in the UAE who uses the aliases ?Mustafa Ahmed,? ?Mustafa Ahmad,? and ?Ahamad Mustafa.? This ?Mustafa? transfers money to Mohamed Atta in Florida on September 8 and 9 from a branch of the Al Ansari Exchange in Sharjah, UAE, a center of al-Qaeda financial dealings. On September 9, three hijackers, Atta, Waleed Alshehri, and Marwan Alshehhi, transfer about $15,000 back to ?Mustafa's? account. In early October 2001, it is reported that the financier ?Mustafa Ahmed? is an alias used by Saeed Sheikh. It will later be reported that Saeed wired money to Atta the month before. These last-minute transfers are touted as the ?smoking gun? proving al-Qaeda involvement in the 9/11 attacks, since Saeed is a known financial manager for bin Laden.





September 9, 2001:


A message is posted on Alsaha.com, a website based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, warning of the 9/11 attack. It proclaims that in the next two days, a ?big surprise? is coming from the Saudi Arabian region of Asir, the remote, mountainous province that produced most of the 19 hijackers who struck on September 11.

 

[dr. freeze]

Dubai is modern! Wow. Yeah, so was Baghdad, so is Riyadh, so is Tehran. .

actually Dubai IS modern

however, we should immediately confiscate all our ports and kick every foreign country out as we should run them all

we should also quit giving these countries handouts until they start cooperating with us more

I heard UAE votes with us about 3% of the time in the UN....that is not exactly an ally i dont care what anyone says they are no friend

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

When giving food for thought you might want to fill both sides of plate--

Here are some pro AND cons from FOX--nice to get 2 sides to story
--They report--YOU decide

Pros--

In 2004, Qari Saifullah Akhtar, a Pakistani suspected of training thousands of Al Qaeda fighters, was arrested in the UAE and turned over to officials in his homeland.

In 2002, Emirati authorities arrested and turned over to the United States Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the suspected mastermind of the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 U.S. sailors. UAE officials said he had planned to attack economic targets in the Emirates and inflict high casualties. He was sentenced to death in absentia by a Yemeni court. Al-Nashiri was also suspected of helping direct the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

United Arab Emirates contributed $100 million to help victims of Hurricane Katrina, officials confirmed Thursday.
The Bush administration said the money it received from the United Arab Emirates was nearly four times as much as it received from all other countries combined. Other countries, including some in the Middle East, also pledged large contributions but have not yet sent the money.

Numerous "supposed" actions by UAE to curtail terrorist money flow--
http://www.uaeinteract.com/news/default.asp?ID=220

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
cons-
A 2004 report from the U.S. commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks found 11 Saudi hijackers had traveled to the United States via the airport in Dubai.

? Usama bin Laden's alleged financial manager, Mustafa Ahmed al-Hisawi, received a Dubai bank transfer of $15,000 two days before the Sept. 11 attacks and then left the UAE for Pakistan, where he was arrested in 2003.

? Marwan Al-Shehhi, a UAE citizen and one of the Sept. 11 hijackers, received $100,000 via the UAE. Another Sept. 11 hijacker, Fayez Banihammad, also was from the Emirates.

? About half the $250,000 spent on the Sept. 11 attacks was wired to Al Qaeda terrorists in the United States from Dubai banks, authorities said. Al Qaeda money in Dubai banks also has been linked to the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania.



The United Arab Emirates has long-standing ties to the Bush family. Records show the UAE and one of its sheikhs contributed at least $1 million before 1995 to the Bush Library Foundation, which established the George Bush Presidential Library in College Station, Texas. The executive chairman of Dubai Ports World, Ahmed bin Sulayem, is not listed among donors

 

[ctownguy]

actually Dubai IS modern

however, we should immediately confiscate all our ports and kick every foreign country out as we should run them all

we should also quit giving these countries handouts until they start cooperating with us more

I heard UAE votes with us about 3% of the time in the UN....that is not exactly an ally i dont care what anyone says they are no friend

Freeze

I agree, but this will never happen in the real world.

 

[gardenweasel]

several things we do know for sure....

the airlines weren`t secure...and they hit us...

the trains and subways weren`t secure...and they hit europe...

are they going to try and hit us again?....absolutely...

the ports are probably the the most vulnerable area of concern of the 3....and almost every security expert agrees that the next big hit...probably the "biggest" hit yet....will be at our ports...

ctown...buddy...it`s not about bush...nor is it about republicans or democrats...even though i have reservations regarding democratic motives on this issue...

we can disagree...imo,i think this is nuts....i know the chinese have some control on the west coast....i know the british had control of these terminals....

but,you have to consider the uae`s checkeredpast with bin ladenand the prior use of their ports to move contraband weapons and technology to contries like iran....

and btw..it`s 21 ports...not 6...

and they would have access to security information...i saw the executive v.p of the company on t.v. and he admitted that they will have access to all security measures so that they could honor all "regulations that are in place"...i can`t believe that anybody would think that they wouldn`t...anybody own or have control of a company in the private sector that isn`t aware of the security involved?...i doubt it...

we saw oil prices spike due to a failed attack on saudi arabian oil interests....a failed attack...

please read:
WASHINGTON, Feb. 24 (UPI) — A United Arab Emirates government-owned company is poised to take over port terminal operations in 21 American ports, far more than the six widely reported.

The Bush administration has approved the takeover of British-owned Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Co. to DP World, a deal set to go forward March 2 unless Congress intervenes.

P&O is the parent company of P&O Ports North America, which leases terminals for the import and export and loading and unloading and security of cargo in 21 ports, 11 on the East Coast, ranging from Portland, Maine to Miami, Florida, and 10 on the Gulf Coast, from Gulfport, Miss., to Corpus Christi, Texas, according to the company’s Web site. ...

Port facility operators have a major security responsibility, and one that could be exploited by terrorists if they infiltrate the company, said Joe Muldoon III. Muldoon is an attorney representing Eller & Co., a port facility operator in Florida partnered with M&O in Miami. Eller opposes the Dubai takeover for security reasons.

“The Coast Guard oversees security, and they have the authority to inspect containers if they want and they can look at manifests, but they are really dependent on facility operators to carry out security issues,” Muldoon said.

The Marine Transportation Security Act of 2002 requires vessels and port facilities to conduct vulnerability assessments and develop security plans including passenger, vehicle and baggage screening procedures; security patrols; establishing restricted areas; personnel identification procedures; access control measures; and/or installation of surveillance equipment.

Under the same law, port facility operators may have access to Coast Guard security incident response plans — that is, they would know how the Coast Guard plans to counter and respond to terrorist attacks.""

lots of bad info out there on this..

this may be a good thing...focuses our consciousness like a laser beam on our weak port security...

for once...before something catastrophic happens...

i want to hear some risk.mgmt scenarios on the affect that a hit on a major port/big city would have on our country`s economy...

might just cripple or crush our economy....

we can`t play russian roulette with port security...and we have to tighten it up whichever way this thing swings...

hopefully,it gets nixed..

 

[djv]

100 million for Katrina. Maybe first done payment for the deal? At least helps them look better. And just to let you know it was report on CNN also. And they even gave more to Pakistan after the large earthquake. And a heck of a lot more to some Arab League fund. Hey they at least are giving us back some of what they got from us. I'll give them credit. It's more then our own rich oil companies did.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Best info I've got so far was when they interviewed senior vice pres of DP World on Britt Humes show. Grilled him pretty hard--basically he stated that all personell on U.S. soil would "for all purposes" remain the same. My thoughts were I seen many companies bought out in my line of work and they too give same song and dance "if a isn't broke-don't fix it--but 90% of time start chopping heads down the road and replacing with their own people. Surprised he did not dance around issue of if they would be privvy to our security measures. He flatly yes--it could not be avoided as it was issue they had to comply with which makes sense. This guy looked to be american and did good interview--however I disliked him from the start when the introduced him as Michael Moore--no shit he has same name.

 

[gardenweasel]

dtb...in a nutshell...what scares me is ....

we have to be right 100% of the time....they only have to get it right once....

 

[StevieD]

Why doesn't Bush just come on TV and explain the deal to us? Makes me think he is hiding something. Softball interviews on Fox by some flunky ain't going to cut it.

 

[djv]

Steve Good point. If he has any idea how deal goes. Remember a week ago he had no idea. Lately he's running around country anyway telling stores about not much of anything. So he's got time.

 

[ctownguy]

Why doesn't Bush just come on TV and explain the deal to us? Makes me think he is hiding something. Softball interviews on Fox by some flunky ain't going to cut it.

LMFAO

Yea right, no matter what he would say you would crucify him your hate is so intense.

Go on TV and explain it, you are truly an idiot.

 

[ctownguy]

Steve Good point. If he has any idea how deal goes. Remember a week ago he had no idea. Lately he's running around country anyway telling stores about not much of anything. So he's got time.

Above post goes for you too.

 

[StevieD]

Hey CT, why am I an idiot for wanting the President to explain the deal he so strongly backs but has even members of his own party upset. I don't see what your problem is with it. I know I don't know the whole deal as more details seem to be released everyday. Maybe you understand the whole thing and could explain it in your next post. Or you could do your usual and call someone a name.

 

[dawgball]

I will restate that I am not necessarily against this deal. What I don't like is the way THIS particular situation is being handled in THIS particular time in history.

We, as the American public, have basically been worked into a frenzy about much of the Arab world (mostly against the Muslim world) since the 9/11 attacks. Now the story is that it's okay for a state-run organization to run a number of our ports.

I am not against them taking over control. I am against the way this is being force-fed to us from closed door meetings.

I would just like more direct information from the administration (which I have supported from day one).

 

[shamrock]

dtb...in a nutshell...what scares me is ....

we have to be right 100% of the time....they only have to get it right once....

GW, wASN'T THIS bUSH S LINE? i THINK WE SHOULD REPLACE HIS PERSONAL SECURITY WITH aRABS, HOW ABOUT THAT?

 

[shamrock]

wOULD BE NICE TO SEE him come on television and explain how he would threaten to veto something he had no idea about or yet heard of.

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Can you imagine what the reaction of our right wing friends at this forum would have been to this announcement if this had been done while Clinton was president. Sounds like impeachment round two.

See boys and girls money isn't brown or white, its green. And thats what this is all about. We've all heard about the Bush family and the Bin Laden family. Looks like George and Laura have some cocktail buddies in Dubai also.

Just heard kind of a cute thing. Originally this administrations spin doctors were going to call the invasion of Iraq Operation Iraqi Liberation. Then they decided to rename it Operation Iraqi Freedom.

I guess Rove figured out someone would figure out the initials.

Eddie

 

[buddy]

Eddie,

You're still King Of The Mountain.

That's why everyone hates you.

'Cept Dr. Freeze.

He's always loved you.