so what does everybody think of biden's plan in iraq ?

[AR182]

i didn't read the article (couldn't find it), but i

heard that joe biden in sunday's op-ed page of

the times proposed that iraq should be divided

into separate territories & separate governments

based on the various tribes in iraq....there would

be a central gov't, that the tribes would answer

to...

not understanding how it would completely be

run my initial thought on this is that i don't like it....

the sunni's are the more powerful tribe & who

would be able to stop them if they decided to

invade the other governments....definitely not the

central gov't....

does anybody know about this proposal or have

any thoughs on it ?

 

[smurphy]

my thoughts are that

i don't like the way you

have written this post.

....are you practicing your

your meter and prose, or

are you inspired to be

more like gardenweasel ?

 

[kosar]

I don't like AR's new style either. Not sure what's going on here.

As for the subject, I think in theory it's probably a decent idea at best. I'd like to see the details though.

I can't imagine the amount of time it would take to set up three distinct, stable democratic governments. Besides that, there would be nothing to stop the Shia from unilaterally taking over the country the minute we leave anyways.

I think it's way too late in the game to try to start getting fancy over there. Even though the admin would have surely brushed him off, the time to come up with complicated, time consuming plans like this is shortly after the invasion.

Just get these forces trained as much as possible, get a somewhat tri-partisan permanent government set-up and get the hell out.

I can't see any reason why we shouldn't start reducing troops there within 6 months and have everybody out within 18 months. I think that's reasonable. We will have been there longer than we fought in WWII. Let the chips fall where they will.

 

[AR182]

first of all....

this is an important subject.....the balance of the free world hinges on what is decided on this forum...

2nd of all (is this a phrase).....

don't ever knock my man gardenweasel.....he is very wise & he should be somebody both of you should aspire to be like......instead of the characters that are on that school bell show that you both have been talking about for the last 3 years....

3rd of all (i continue with this phrase if you both don't mind)....

i'm from brooklyn ny.....i don't know what meter & prose mean....

4th of all (keeping in this mode).....

i thought it would be easier for my fellow madjackers (especially the older ones like dtb & djv) to read...i don't know how it turned out to be short sentences.....

now if it's alright with you 2....

kosar....

you mentioned what would stop the shia's from taking over....i thought the sunni's are the strongest tribe ( i get confused with all of these ethnic tribes if we're not talking about christians & jews) in iraq....

i don't think we will have see all of the troops leave iraq..not with iran next door...& we all know how the iran issue will be settled......

 

[smurphy]

Biden's idea is OK - but I agree with Kosar that it's kind of late for this intricate level of thinking. We don't have the heart to see that plan through. We're kinda flighty like that.

That said, not sure how Iraq doesn't eventually fracture into 3 nations anyway. Without a strongarm like Saddam keeping everyone down, it's not so easy to keep them from splitting apart.

Be careful with Gardenweasel. Fireworks are always fun and games until someone blows off their hand.

And 5th of all - being from Brooklyn is no excuse for not keeping up with Iambic pentameter. Lots of fruity poets are from the dirty burrough.

 

[kosar]

i don't think we will have see all of the troops leave iraq..not with iran next door...& we all know how the iran issue will be settled......

The Shia make up around 70% of the population in Iraq and will definitely prevail if and when civil war breaks out. Iran's government is dominated by radical Islamfascist shia. They will make a fine team.

As far as 'not leaving because of Iran?' We really will have no choice but to leave when the new Iraqi government asks us to. We have said over and over that this is the case.

The new Iraqi government will be(is) very pro-Iran and will have absolutely no interest in us hanging around a minute longer than what is necessary, in their opinion.

Now maybe because of the Iran situation we will keep a decent presence in Kuwait (if they agree), but no way in Iraq.

 

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Would work about as well as segregating white-blacks and hispanics in U.S.
I give Biden an A for trying to find solution vs harping on whats wrong--but persanally believe uniting not dividing is only long term solution--but maybe long term is not that relevant if you take all into consideration.

 

[djv]

Might be to late. The Brits should have got it right 60 years ago. But if nothing else works soon might be only answer left.

 

[Beebs]

Biden's idea is OK - but I agree with Kosar that it's kind of late for this intricate level of thinking. We don't have the heart to see that plan through. We're kinda flighty like that.

That said, not sure how Iraq doesn't eventually fracture into 3 nations anyway. Without a strongarm like Saddam keeping everyone down, it's not so easy to keep them from splitting apart.

QUOTE]

Saw Biden on CNN this afternoon and he tried to clarify his point for Wolf Blitzer. Let me preface by saying that I am most definitely not an expert on this situation.

What he seemed to be saying was that it is already included in Iraq's new constitution that the country is to be divided into some 18 odd provinces.

He proposed what seemed to be a good idea to me. What he suggested is that there be one territory so to speak for each of the 3 divisions that already exist in Iraq (Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd) with an inclusive centralized government (which in a way I guess would be analogous to the US federal govt) that would maintain order and equal sharing of oil profits between the three.

He said more than once that this would provide necessary "breathing room" between these groups that obviously do not get along.

Biden spoke of the former Yugoslavia as an example of a region with different ethnic/religious groups that now coexist.

Now, I am not sure if a plan like this has a chance for success but it is A PLAN. and that is not something that I have heard from anyone from either side of the aisle in a quite a while.

I would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this and please forgive any grammatical or syntax errors I have made in this post as I am just about tanked.