U.S. accused in more Iraq civilian deaths

neverteaseit

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This is only the tip of the iceberg. Watch how many more follow. I hope the hell the PM for Iraq steps in and diffuses some of these allegations before it turns into a really bad situation.


BAGHDAD, Iraq - A third set of allegations that U.S. troops have deliberately killed civilians is fueling a furor in Iraq and drawing strong condemnations from government and human rights officials. "It looks like the killing of Iraqi civilians is becoming a daily phenomenon," the chairman of the Iraqi Human Rights Association, Muayed al-Anbaki, said Friday after video ran on television of children and adults slain in a raid in Ishaqi in March.

Al-Anbaki's comments came a day after Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki upbraided the U.S. military over allegations that Marines killed two dozen unarmed civilians in Haditha, calling it "a horrible crime." They were his strongest public comments on the subject since his government was sworn in last month.

U.S. commanders have ordered new ethics training for all troops in Iraq. But the flow of revelations and investigations threatens to undermine Iraq's new government and public support in America for President Bush's management of the war.

Iraq's government also began its own investigation of the deaths in Haditha.

In addition to the Haditha case, in which Marines are alleged to have gunned down 24 civilians in a rage of revenge for a bombing that killed a Marine in November, seven Marines and a Navy corpsman could face murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges as early as Friday in the April shooting death of an Iraqi man, a defense attorney said Thursday.

Military prosecutors plan to file the charges against the men, who are being held in solitary confinement at Camp Pendleton, Calif., Marine Corps base, Jeremiah Sullivan III, who represents one of the men, said Thursday.

The U.S. military had no additional comment Friday on the accusations stemming from a raid March 15 in the village of Ishaqi, about 50 miles north of Baghdad.

In March, the U.S. military said four people died when they attacked from the ground and air a house suspected of holding an al-Qaida operative. The house was destroyed.

But video shot by an AP Television News cameraman at the time and previously unaired shows at least five children dead. The video shows at least one adult male and four young children with obvious entry wounds to the head. One child has an obvious entry wound to the side caused by a bullet.

Local Iraqis said there were 11 total dead, and charged that they were killed by U.S. troops before the house was leveled.

The video includes an unidentified man saying "children were stuck in the room, alone and surrounded."

"After they handcuffed them, they shot them dead. Later, they struck the house with their planes. They wanted to hide the evidence. Even a 6-month-old infant was killed. Even the cows were killed too," he said.

The video included shots of the bodies of five children and two men wrapped in blankets.

Other video showed the bodies of three children in the back of a pickup truck that took them to the hospital in Tikrit, Saddam Hussein's former hometown.

Police Capt. Laith Mohammed said the March 15 attack that hit Ishaqi involved U.S. warplanes and armor.

Riyadh Majid, who identified himself as the nephew of Faez Khalaf, the head of the household who was killed, told AP at the time that U.S. forces landed in helicopters and raided the home.

Khalaf's brother, Ahmed, said nine of the victims were family members who lived at the house and two were visitors.

The U.S. military, which said in March that the allegations were being investigated, said it was targeting and captured an individual suspected of supporting foreign fighters of the al-Qaida in Iraq terrorist network. It had no further comment Friday.

Maj. Gen. William Caldwell, spokesman for U.S.-led forces in Iraq, said at a news conference Thursday that "about three or four" inquiries were being carried out around the country, but he would not provide any details.

Iraqi officials and relatives also said U.S. forces killed two Iraqi women ? one of them about to give birth ? when the troops shot at a car that failed to stop at an observation post in Samarra, 60 miles north of Baghdad.

The U.S. military said coalition troops fired at a car after it entered a clearly marked prohibited area near an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings. It said the incident was being investigated.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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It will be media frenzie we haven't seen since Katrina when they were reporting 10,000 dead--women and children being raped and murdered in superdome---but how many actuallly died and how many people know the actual tabulation of those raped and murded in dome was 0--

You think the terrorist-liberals-and rights groups are licking their chops--as with Katrina they can report what they may and be accountable for nothing.
 

smurphy

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DTB - Why are you blaming the media for a situation that the Bush administration put the troops in? Are you implying that if not for liberals and the media that killing of civilians would help win the hearts and minds of Iraqis, leading ultimately to victory? Is it possible that the goal is simply not a winnable one, established on a faulty foundation by incompetent leadership?

Why do you always spin away from Bush? Hasn't he done more harm to the troops than any imbedded jackass with a video camera?
 

Chadman

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Ease up on Dogs, Murph. He is just playing the role of good, patriotic soldier for the administration. I consider him the "Tony Snow" of Mad Jacks...blame all media other than Faux News for all of the possible negatives regarding the Bush Presidency.

By the way, I wonder exactly how you would know for sure if there were any rapes in The Superdome? Just a thought...don't think there were too many patrolmen around during the early stages, were there? I think what patrolpeople there were around were assisting the Faux News cameras in their ongoing chase to show the black looters to the rest of the country. You know, the non-biased, right wing patriot channel.

Of course, any video shown on any channel other than Faux News can't have any validity nor importance, and is a conspired attempt to smear our troops and the good name of George Bush. Liberals are "happy" about the reports, and all reports on any of these possible events are hysterical media tactics. Anyone asking questions about these events is unpatriotic, and those dismissing them are patriotic.

And so it goes in Wonderland.
 

Nosigar

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Ha Ha. The patriots wanting to fight (not-fight) a perfectly sanitary war.

Blame the media or blame Bush.
Defend the media. I didn't see DTB defending Bush, just asserting the media's disdain for the troops. If three black dudes killed a bunch of kids in the street you wouldn't see them jumping the the "black community" and blaming them for all the ills of the world, as if they were all one and the same. But it's the military, so what the hell, huh?

Ya'll definitely have "kaleidoscope" eyes.
Very convenient.
 

Chadman

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Nosigar said:
just asserting the media's disdain for the troops. If three black dudes killed a bunch of kids in the street you wouldn't see them jumping the the "black community" and blaming them for all the ills of the world, as if they were all one and the same. But it's the military, so what the hell, huh?

Another BS paintbrush quote. A general comment passed off as a truth that is BS. The media does not have a disdain for the troops...the media supports the troops like the vast majority of liberals and conservatives. That's just more crap, period. "The Media"...nice generalization that means nothing in totality.

Nobody blamed the troops in question here for all the ills of the world. Nobody. Another BS comment. The troops would not even be put in this position to be examined for being in a horrible situation if it weren't for Bush and his henchmen who wanted us there long before his war on Terra. More people sure as Hell blame this administration for many of the ills of the world the way it is now than the troops. And rightfully so. You make a decision, then you live with the ramifications - good and bad. Can't take credit for only the good, no matter how hard you try to hide the bad.

The media, liberals, countries that didn't sign up for this farce...it's all their fault. NOTHING is ever George Bush's fault, is it? Just ask him - he has made no mistakes that come to his overmatched mind. The crap bucket is full these days...you guys better get a new bucket.
 

smurphy

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Nosigar said:
Ha Ha. The patriots wanting to fight (not-fight) a perfectly sanitary war.
If I were there, I'd imagine I'd be killing civilians left and right. I don't know how to fight a "fair fight". It's ridiculous to put our troops in scenarios like this. It NEVER works out right.

My general belief about war is you only embark on it as a last resort, and when you do you be prepared to destroy everything and everyone in your way. Afghanistan fit that scenario - Iraq did not. I don't think I could possibly handle a war with rules. It is ridiculous, but it's reality when you pre-emptively invade someone and try to build their country. How could our administration have been so incompetent to put the soldiers in a situation like this?

I find it amazing that so much of the right wing acts surprised when people are upset about civilan deaths. What did you expect? This is the responsibility we take on when we pre-emptively invade someone. ...Did you not realize this?
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Thank you for pointing that out Nosigar--

"Why are you blaming the media for a situation that the Bush administration put the troops in?"

Please read what you wrote Smurph--do you see any irony in it. ;)

Chad I was going by police reports afterwards--there were a couple deaths but not any murders and no rapes reported--and fox was as bad as every other network on reporting same.

--and on the looters--was probably trick photography--like the school buses under water--ya think :)

one last thing Smurph on your
"I find it amazing that so much of the right wing acts surprised when people are upset about civilan deaths."

What I find surprising was how the limited # of civilians that died during our campaighn in Viet Nam was such an atrocity--but the 1.5 million that murdered as result of our pullout failed to get any press. You liberals pick and choose circumstance to fit your agenda. You care less about removing dictator that slaughtered 100,000 + but now these same civilians have every liberal rights group on the scene--you forget I've seen modus operandi before.

I know it will come as surprise to you--but in war shit happens--civians dies--some soilders lose it--I'm just saying if troops are quilty beyond all doubt-prosecute them--if its a border line situation they have "earned" the benefit of a doubt.

Its much easier to second guess split second decisions from comfort of home than it is when actually confronted with it. Granted there are bad apples in every barrel--but the media should not portray it as the norm rather than the exception.

Classic example was the prison deal--they chop heads, tortue ect with no rules and our troops get 43 days of negative press for humiliating them. :shrug:

The sooner Iraq takes care of prisonors-punishment and interrogating--the sooner this war will come under better contol--hell they can't even try Saddam with liberal ex cabinet members of you know who trying to defend him--and you wonder why military is pro conservative.
The whole war boils down to we catch--you defend em.
 
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smurphy

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Dogs - I guess you need to explain to me the irony. I think I know what your getting at, but all that does is re-iterate my point. We know the rules going. Bush knows the rules we face and still sends troops into a very ridiculous scenario.

On Vietnam - on Iraq - on any scenario where we take it upon ourselves to pre-emptively invade a country - we are held to a much different standard. Frankly, we din't care about the slaughter that followed. All we cared about was that we were no longer losing lives. Is that right? I guess it depends on your view of the world. None of the blood would have been on our hands if we didn't send the military there to begin with. We were not willing to win at any cost, so it was a disaster. With Iraq - same thing - I think we all know that we are not willing to win at any cost. Certainly, we are not being asked to sacrifice at all. So why start a war in any situation when we are not willing to win at any cost? That should be the question our administration asks itself before embarking on such follies like Vietnam and Iraq. That should be the gauge of whether we start a fight every time.

Stop calling me a liberal. Under what definition are you applying that to me? Is it because I disagree with on some things?
 

smurphy

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DOGS THAT BARK said:
I know it will come as surprise to you--but in war shit happens--civians dies--some soilders lose it--
No f**king shit! Are you reading anything I write?

I said myself that I'd probably be killing people left and right.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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OK Smurph, maybe I do owe you and apologie for inferring liberalism as well as Chad.

Its just this media thing dissing troops is a very sore spot for me.
Not only does is shed a prejudice light on all our troops in general but plays right in hands of terrorist.

when I was drafted my thoughts were not unlike yours or many others--Why risk my life for war that appears to mean little--however once there and seeing how the north was invading south and massecuring the people over political views and seeing look it the vienemese eyes like we were their saviors it became an entirely diff issue. It wasn't like I was fighting our war but moreso like we were fighting theirs. In reading every thread Neverteaseit has posted since his knowing where he was headed until aftermath of return I can see a somewhat similiar transformation--and would be curious on his input if I am correct.
It is especially angonizing to see media portray us as executing children.
We used to get hershey bars in VN that had preservative that to keep from melting in heat there--made them taste like shit--no body ate them. When we were logged supplies I'd save them because VN children loved them. Our team walked in villiage one day and and we were headed toward congregation of children to give out the bars--one had grenade behind his back and tossed it at us--all 6 of us caught minor shrapnel however the children caught the brunt of it because child only had strength to toss it a few meters. Once smoked cleared every man got to his feet and rushed to aid (not shoot) the wounded children. Was common tactic of charlie to use children over theat of killing their parents to do their bidding. On flip side in war the age of what one would determine as child is quite diff. Not uncommon for enemy to have 12 or 13 year olds--and if portrayal of children dancing around our dead and wounded soilders in movie Blackhawk down was accurate--I'd have little reservation of lighting them up.

I guess what I'm trying to say--is it is tough to rationalize things from what you read. I am quite confident most here would have similiar view if thrown into similiar circumstances.
 
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gardenweasel

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guilty until proven innocent....thats the new standard established by the msm and democRATS.......

stereotype the entire military...it fits the agenda...actually,this isn`t stereotyping...it`s quadrophonic-typing...

where`s the mention that the video tape obtained by the bbc in the one incident shows a number of dead adults and children at the site with what world affairs editor john simpson says "were clearly gunshot wounds"....

these pictures came from a hardline sunni group opposed to coalition forces.....

a sunni group opposed to coalition forces?....that`s really responsible journalism...

we know they don`t hesitate to kill men women and children to further their own ends...they don`t hesitate to use innocents as shields...

death is a part of their culture..they embrace it..

where was that mentioned in this thread?..anybody fact-f-cking check anything?...

or are you just to anxious to see bush smeared and your agenda pushed forward?...

the media is just throwing shit against the wall to see what sticks(damn the source)....before all the facts are in...and a rationale conclusion is reached...

this smells like a poorly-run fish market on monday at 3 in the afternoon starting the 3rd week of the garbage collector's strike....

it may be that something happened in haditha. something very bad....

but it also sure looks like our vaunted free press is taking their talking points from the enemy.... AGAIN.

i haven't yet given up on the idea of due process, but I'm getting sick and tired of the unethical opposition,politicians and amoral press jumping the gun and thus getting to set the tone of the discussion and bias the outcome in the "court of public opinion."....

these are american boys...doesn`t it bother you that politicians and the media are throwing them under the bus before all the facts are in?...

doesn`t that bother you?...

obviously,no....you guys are happy that you found another convienient club to beat bush with.....

btw...plots foiled in australia,britain and...amazingly enough, canada...3 russian civvy`s kidnapped...one killled...

canada?....yikes..young canadian muslims who have somehow become radicalized while growing up in canada....3 tons of ammonium nitrate......3 times the amount used in oklahoma city...

homegrown.....in one of the most liberal,compassionate countries in the world..

europe welcomes them....what do you get?...european jihad...

a canadian jihad is apparently underway as well..

i`m very much saddaned......and mark my words...the haditha incident will explode before our very eyes into an anti-american hate fest....

and many of those leading the charge (once again) will be our own.....

this country needs to pull together...
 

smurphy

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Weasel - how is it that you are interpreting anything being reported as "guilty until proven innocent"? Everything I see on all news programs does nothing of the sort. Do you feel that the mere mentioning of a report implies guilt?

Dogs - thanks for that post - very thoughtful and insightful. Your experiences in Vietnam seem similar to those of my dad. ....I guess my point about a war like this is that it's not good strategy for the administration to put troops in the situations that you, my dad, neverteasit, etc have dealt with. Yes - you inevitably end up caring for the cause. But the whole nation knows (in Nam and now) that we are not willing as a whole to endure a lengthy costly war. We simply don't have the endurance and patience to see it through like we should. The reason is because it's a sideshow to us. To the insurgents (like the VC) this is everything, but to us it's a sideshow. So in the end we will become tired of seeing our guys killed and mamed and will leave things not quite right. Unfortunately, the troops serving - well they care dearly about the mission and and people. It's not fair to the troops to make them care when most of the rest of the country really doesn't. Yes - I blame the administration for this. This was never a war for our survival. Our leaders never asked the rest of us to sacrifice a damn thing - they haven't even asked us to use less gasoline or anything. Bumper stickers are an empty gesture to make selfish people feel good about themselves - and that's really a microcosm of 90% of the country. In fact, saying "I support the troops" is an empty gesture in my mind. What the hell does that statement even mean?

Competent government learns from the past, understands our society, and avoids scenarios like we currently have. Incompetent government tries to sell you a war and then just sorta hopes everything works out.

'The Art of War' - "every war is won or lost before it begins." If Bush had any insight into the way Americans think and any knowledge of history then he would have seen this coming before it began. He's the president, for christ's sake - I mean if anyone should have a little competence, it oughtta be him.
 
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