CONSERVATIVE HYPOCRISY puts college out of the reach of working-class Americans.

Chadman

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Divesting From Our Future
Earl Hadley
June 30, 2006

Earl Hadley is the education coordinator for the* Campaign for America's Future.

Senator Rick Santorum, R-Pa., recently announced that weapons of mass destruction had been discovered in Iraq. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld even backed him up in a carefully worded statement. As it turns out, the weapons were old and near useless, and despite the congressman gaining a brief moment in the spotlight, the media quickly saw through his rhetoric and grandstanding.

Sadly, the press is not holding the Bush administration or its conservative allies in Congress to the same standard when it comes to college affordability.

On July 1, interest rates on college loans are set to rise, in some categories by as much as two percent, costing student and parent borrowers thousands of dollars over the life of their loans. The average tuition at public four-year schools has gone up by 40 percent since 2001. At the same time, the maximum Pell Grant?the primary federal scholarship program?has been frozen for four years.

Two decades ago, a maximum grant covered half of a college education, but today?s maximum grant of $4,050 only covers a third of average total charges, including tuition, fees, room and board at four-year public colleges and universities?$12,127. Not surprisingly, Americans report that they are having a harder time paying for college. The struggle of millions of students and families to pay for a college education, however, is not the result of random market forces.

By acts of commission and omission, congressional conservatives are responsible for this state of affairs. Conservatives running Congress removed $12 billion dollars from the student loan program that should have gone to grants; failed to extend the college tuition tax deduction, instead opting for tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations; and cut grant aid in last year?s budget.

It?s outrageous that politicians are ignoring rising college costs. Annually,200,000 students are priced out of a college education, while 400,000 attend a two-year school *instead of a four-year institution because of financial pressure. These numbers represent the crushing of individual dreams, but they also take a toll on our economy. The Republican failure on college affordability does a disservice to those who have earned a college education but cannot afford it, and to the country that can?t afford to lose the contributions that those same students might make if they were able to attend school.

Politicians of all stripes talk about competing globally and the importance of higher education in preparing the work-force of the 21st century. But words don?t make this a reality; they don?t put 200,000 qualified students into the classroom. The conservative majority?s refusal to take basic steps like increasing the value of the maximum Pell Grant demonstrates that they are abandoning not only middle- and working-class families fighting for a college education, but their own promises about strengthening our economy.

The Republican majority should be banned from bemoaning the state of the American worker or college affordability. Their continual refusal to help make college affordable makes them fully complicit in weakening both.* For example: Representative George Miller, D-Calif., and Senator Richard Durbin, D-Ill., have introduced bills that would cut interest rates in half on new student and parent loans. This is not a radical proposal, but a simple down-payment toward making college affordable. Congressional leadership, however, has not allowed a vote on the measure, despite having no problem earlier this year in increasing the interest rate parents pay on loans for their children?s education through the budget reconciliation bill.

These acts have consequences.* Conservatives are making it more difficult to afford college and in the process are making it more difficult for our economy to utilize its primary resource?an educated citizenry.

The priorities of the majority party are clear; it?s time for the media to stop giving them a free pass on college affordability. There will be many stories about the July 1 interest rate increases, but few will point out the Republican hypocrisy. If the press can hold them accountable when they make false claims about discovering weapons of mass destruction, then the press should hold them accountable when they make false claims about being concerned about America?s students and families.
 

gjn23

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if you're going to believe the simplistic view that conservatives and republicans are responsible for college not being affordable then one must agree that liberals and democrats are responsible for ruining education from k-12 since our kids are dumber now than ever before.
 

djv

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Chadman if those kids the future of our country really feel that way. Well time for them to show up at the polls in huge numbers.
 

Chadman

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gjn23 said:
if you're going to believe the simplistic view that conservatives and republicans are responsible for college not being affordable then one must agree that liberals and democrats are responsible for ruining education from k-12 since our kids are dumber now than ever before.

I can't wait to see if you care to play this one out or not...

Please explain how liberals and democrats are responsible for ruining education from k-12 "since our kids are dumber now than ever before."

I personally parent a 12 year old boy, and I would say that he is a VERY intelligent young man who could communicate and argue his position with the best of kids of any age. MY kid is not dumber now "than ever before" as you put it...and I would guess that he could stand his ground with most adults in this country. I know he does with us...

It's HYSTERICAL that you would say that I have a simplistic view of a simple voting roll call, considering that we can all see who thinks that this issue is less important than other agenda items.

The only way you guys can develop some credibility is to stand up for what you believe in, justify it, and continue to say it's the right thing to do. Instead, you shy away from it, and say the other side is wrong because they don't agree with you. Stick with your convictions. If you are actually RIGHT about something, you should feel good enough about it to not namecall and make fun of other ideas.
 

gjn23

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Chadman said:
I can't wait to see if you care to play this one out or not...

Please explain how liberals and democrats are responsible for ruining education from k-12 "since our kids are dumber now than ever before."

I personally parent a 12 year old boy, and I would say that he is a VERY intelligent young man who could communicate and argue his position with the best of kids of any age. MY kid is not dumber now "than ever before" as you put it...and I would guess that he could stand his ground with most adults in this country. I know he does with us...

It's HYSTERICAL that you would say that I have a simplistic view of a simple voting roll call, considering that we can all see who thinks that this issue is less important than other agenda items.

The only way you guys can develop some credibility is to stand up for what you believe in, justify it, and continue to say it's the right thing to do. Instead, you shy away from it, and say the other side is wrong because they don't agree with you. Stick with your convictions. If you are actually RIGHT about something, you should feel good enough about it to not namecall and make fun of other ideas.

check the grad rate of hs kids now vs years ago
check the standing of us students vs students from other industralized countries
check the standing of typical american students vs koreans, asians or kids from india

k-12 kids are not getting much of an education these days as they are getting a teaching of social policies.......that is the doing of the nea and teachers unions, both of which are strong supporters and the democratic party

again.....this is your thread where you blame conservatives and republicans for a lack of education in college due to funding cuts.....i blame democrats and liberals for the downward trend of education in k-12
 

Chadman

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I'm curious...why do you think teachers unions are supporters of the democratic party? Could it simply be that they think that the democratic party does a better job of making education a priority, compared to other party ideals? Actually funding this important sector of our society, and not mandating standards while at the same time cutting the funding for those very programs?

It's easy to sit there and say that kids are getting a teaching of social policies because you are against the teaching union influence. What is your basis for this theory? As far as I can tell, my kids are studying the same kind of basics as when I was in school - techniques are different, but the subject matter is pretty much the same. I guess you are saying that all these teachers just sit around and bash the republican party or some such thing. I have several good friends who are teachers, and some are staunch republicans. So I don't agree with your paintbrush comment.

There is quite a difference in graduation rates between white kids and hispanic/black kids, though. All you have to do is drive from one side of a big city to another to look at the difference in facilities to know that is probably the case.

I certainly agree with loungelizard...have you guys checked out any grade school math books lately? Have you seen the level of literature these kids are reading and discussing? I don't remember dealing with the complexity that these kids are dealing with when I was that age.

I couldn't find any comparisons on graduation rates, maybe you can share them. Asians put a high priority on education in most of those countries. They also work a lot longer hours and much harder than most Americans. It's a different way of life...and I don't think that is a political issue as much as a societal one.

I'm all for both parties doing more for education, and less in fighting elective wars that costs our country billions every week that could be going to other things that would make us more competitive in areas you bring up. I'm quite happy to see fewer tax cuts which keeps funding up for programs that are being cut by this legislative group.
 

gjn23

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the democrats making education a priority?

the education system is a microcosim of the democratic party:

throw more money at an issue in hopes of solving the "problem" and bash republicans for "cutting funding"....nevermind that this approach doesnt address the real problems (lack of real education, lack of accountability of teachers, lack of higher standards, etc...) just demand that more money will solve the issue and blame those who are opposed to handing out more money.

i too know teachers who are republicans and conservatives....they are few and far between and get blackballed if they dare go against the union/principles/superintendants/etc.......most lifetime teachers are liberal democrats and most that get out of the profession quickly are republicans who go on with their lives.
 

blgstocks

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Most teachers in the system are liberal, coming from california, maybe they are more liberal than other states,
but Chadman I always look to you for facts when debating an issue, not"my experience has been ...."
To say that you have teacher friends that are republican doesn't change the fact that every teacher union sides with democratic party, universities are the most liberal places in any city and teachers who I am around on a daily basis are almost universaly more left than right.

Anyways, I agree with GJN that kids are getting comparatively stupider than before. We are at the very bottom in mathmatics in the world for 6th grade, i remember reading something Money mag about that. But I would bet that we are losing ground to the world in terms of our education. I am sure your kid is smart chadman, but i assure you he is the exception. This leads me to my next point which is about the atricle at hand.

I very much agree with you that something is wrong with the college system. Millions of kids go to college every year and spend 2 years in general ed, putzing around in classes that they should have learned, and were taught in high school. Then after they move into their majors work they have 2 years of what college should have been to start off with. So they graduate from college after their parents rack up a huge bill or they do.

Then what? Oh they get basically the same job they would have gotten if they would have started 4 to 5 years ago and worked their way up in the company. And if you want a degree that means something anymore you have to have a Masters Degree or graduate degree. So thats another 2 to 6 years in school working depending on the field. Now your stuck with alot more debt, 10 years behind in experience than many of your peers who decided to skip college

Basically college for most kids is a place to take easy classes and figure out what they wanna do in four to 6 years. Which is ridiculous. Everyone has a college degree now. It means what a high school diploma did 25 years ago.
The smart kids that are priced out of college will figure out a way to contribute to society and get rewarded, the avg and stupid ones thata re priced out will get the same dead end jobs they would have found themselves getting into after graduating from college anyways. Except they arent spending our tax dollars in school learning about philosophy or theatre arts.
Then the kids that get into college will have a degree that means something since there arent as many idiots walking around with a degree.

I dont think this is a party issue, i dont think the public school system has gotten any worse under Bush and test scores k-12 have been improving (compared to previous us scores) every year. And its not like the democrats had a great system in place when they left off. There is much wrong with college and the funding is not even the biggest, it is the quality of the education. I dont know why you have to make it a conservative bashing post, like you always do. On a sidenote, I find your sig one of the funniest of all because if you actually think you are unbiased than you are far from the truth.
 

dr. freeze

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blgstocks said:
Most teachers in the system are liberal, coming from california, maybe they are more liberal than other states,
but Chadman I always look to you for facts when debating an issue, not"my experience has been ...."
To say that you have teacher friends that are republican doesn't change the fact that every teacher union sides with democratic party, universities are the most liberal places in any city and teachers who I am around on a daily basis are almost universaly more left than right.

Anyways, I agree with GJN that kids are getting comparatively stupider than before. We are at the very bottom in mathmatics in the world for 6th grade, i remember reading something Money mag about that. But I would bet that we are losing ground to the world in terms of our education. I am sure your kid is smart chadman, but i assure you he is the exception. This leads me to my next point which is about the atricle at hand.

I very much agree with you that something is wrong with the college system. Millions of kids go to college every year and spend 2 years in general ed, putzing around in classes that they should have learned, and were taught in high school. Then after they move into their majors work they have 2 years of what college should have been to start off with. So they graduate from college after their parents rack up a huge bill or they do.

Then what? Oh they get basically the same job they would have gotten if they would have started 4 to 5 years ago and worked their way up in the company. And if you want a degree that means something anymore you have to have a Masters Degree or graduate degree. So thats another 2 to 6 years in school working depending on the field. Now your stuck with alot more debt, 10 years behind in experience than many of your peers who decided to skip college

Basically college for most kids is a place to take easy classes and figure out what they wanna do in four to 6 years. Which is ridiculous. Everyone has a college degree now. It means what a high school diploma did 25 years ago.
The smart kids that are priced out of college will figure out a way to contribute to society and get rewarded, the avg and stupid ones thata re priced out will get the same dead end jobs they would have found themselves getting into after graduating from college anyways. Except they arent spending our tax dollars in school learning about philosophy or theatre arts.
Then the kids that get into college will have a degree that means something since there arent as many idiots walking around with a degree.

I dont think this is a party issue, i dont think the public school system has gotten any worse under Bush and test scores k-12 have been improving (compared to previous us scores) every year. And its not like the democrats had a great system in place when they left off. There is much wrong with college and the funding is not even the biggest, it is the quality of the education. I dont know why you have to make it a conservative bashing post, like you always do. On a sidenote, I find your sig one of the funniest of all because if you actually think you are unbiased than you are far from the truth.
exactly

why we want the government funding such a useless endeavor is beyond me

if it is worth it, people should pay for college with their own money

if it is not worth it, they won't

the government stepping in, will continue to make it worthless for everyone as it gets dumbed down even more

college for the most part was and is a joke

there are rare exceptions
 

Chadman

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bigstocks, I agree that I am pretty biased on many political issues. I do try to entertain differing viewpoints, and will allow that I learn a lot from those that provide a different way to look at things. I like the quote from JFK, because I think it is appropriate for all times in a political sense - for both sides of the aisle. I am not saying I am like that in many cases, if that is what you are referring to. I don't think the sigs of many people here are supposed to reflect the way they really are, are they?

I have grown FAR more partisan since Bush 2 and his administration took office. I have never remotely felt this much frustration politically, and it is directly due to the policies of this administration and the way they do business. I think Bush 2 is an embarrassment publicly in the way he communicates, and that is in large part what our President is responsible for - being a public figurehead for our country. I put too much emphasis on basic communication skills for public figures, granted, but that's my choice. I think it's sad that Bush remains a beacon of material riches for comedians and is looked at as an oaf in many situations. I doubt it bothers his supporters as much, and that's fine too.

I don't agree that our kids are getting "stupider." I coach and spend a lot of times with kids in my area, and I realize it is probably one of the more highly-rated areas in the US. Minnesota is a good place for education in general, with some notable exceptions in poverty-stricken areas of the Twin Cities. Not too many of those, but they are there. I have no doubt that the kids I spend time with are on average of higher awareness and intelligence that kids were at my age. They are hit with info non-stop from morning to night, and that may be part of the problem. There is less emphasis on book-learnin, and more on instant info seeking and receiving, I think.

I don't know what the answer is as far as improving performance. I can't think that reducing spending on education could ever be looked at as a positive in achieving that goal. Better use of funds, probably. Expecting performance and accountability in teachers and students, sure. But to do things the way Bush did it with No Child Left Behind is laughable. Create a government-related program enforcing blanket standards for all public schools, costing those schools a lot of money to conform and modify structure, and then immediately cut funding to those schools. Or at least not fund the additional requirements, if the funds were not cut. There are simply too many educators and legislators that have spoken out about the handling of this to have it be completely untrue.

I can agree that the unions protect many that don't deserve to be protected. Tenure in higher institutions probably is another factor, but there is essentially tenure in many business models, in seniority and perceived experience in management. I'm sorry that me adding my personal experience with acquaintances that touch these people don't meet your standards for commentary here...seems to me it's a good way to relate to an issue. The facts are plenty, including those mentioned in the above article. Personal touches ad to a discussion, seems to me.

I agree wholeheartedly on your take on the college situation. There is plenty of time and money wasted on basic classes - many of which should have been learned in high school, and probably were.

I still think that spending money on education is a good thing. Wasting money is not. It is a part of the overall way money is spent in this country, and I'd rather err on the high side when it comes to helping our kids grow and take over in the coming years. Plenty of other places to cut, in my opinion, other than education.

Freeze, I wonder how many kids who received grants and assistance to go to college have done good things for our country? It's an investment made by all of us in making this country a better place. You don't have to invest in that way, you can invest in other things as a country. Many of the countries singled out as being a success spend a higher percentage on education than we do. But then, they are not fighting elective wars and lining the coiffures of their supporters, either. It's all a matter of perspective, and what is really important. And that remains a choice each of us have to make.

Education for millions or Halliburton riches for a few? I know what I pick.
 

blgstocks

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Chadman, i was pretty tired writing that, and I apologize for personal attack on sig. That quote coupled with your "realist" below your name and me reading about 20 straight threads of you bashin bush administration. I did check out your applause to bush about his handling of korea though.

I can understand that right now you are very disappointed in this administration, i voted for Bush and right now i wouldnt vote for him again.

I am very much against cutting scholarship money, i think it should be sharper money, not just given out because you are a pregnant american indian who is poor and can read so you get money. I would say give it to the best and brightest to the kids that cant afford to go there or at least have earned it. But that is scholarship money we are talking about not public funding.

Public funding I think is very necessary, but if we are going to have any progress in college we need to make it much harder and eliminate the kids that arent bright or arent motivated. That will give more money to make the education of the kids that can cut it better. The better the education, the better they can lead all aspects of our nation. I know, only if the world was perfect would this happen, but i think our schools can make a step forward.

I do not mind that you use personal experiences for opinions or subjective issues in fact i used my personal experiences of the hundreds teachers i have dealt with But to deny facts that are supported by test scores from across the world, and answer with a single personal experience. I wish i had time to dig up the #s but like i said it was from printed media so it might not be easily googled and it is getting late.
Finally, your haliburton remark is actually becoming very true and very scary that it is undeniable that the rich provide their kids with the best education and education is power and power equals money to send their kids to even better schools and it is a cycle that truly is seperating us into the elite, avg, and bottom.

Goodnight all
 

smurphy

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Of course k-12 teachers tend to be democrat. They are paid shlt. Republicans won't work for such little pay and respect. This doesn't stop them from criticizing the same public education system that they try not to be a part of though. If they can afford it, they send their kids to elitist private schools. If they can't, then they just bitch about supposed favoritism to minorities, kids getting dumber, and of course the dreaded left-leaning education being doled out to their underachieving neocon spawns.

Kinda feel sorry for the neocons who have no money. What a frustrating experience that must be. Deep down, they know their full of shlt, but they have too much pride to see what tools of the system they are.
 

ferdville

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Kids are not any dumber now than before. With the tremendous advances in technology, I am pretty sure you could make a case that the "average" high school kid today knows far more than his counterpart 30 years ago. What makes today's kids different is that they have far more distractions than any generation before them. Portions of the nation are filled with the idea that they are entitled to things without having to work for them. Every other person is a victim in one way or another. These are just a few of the things that didn't exist 30 years ago and are a plague on all our children. Like always, the more affluent and educated the parent, the more empasis is placed on education and the kid can see the benefits right before his face with his parents success. It is an easier sale than the poor working stiff parent that demonstrates the importance of an education by his inability to succeed financially. It is much too complicated to blame on party issues. One thng I have found having been in the field of education for many years is that though most teachers do tend to be liberal, most adminstrators tend to be a little to the conservative side.
 

bjfinste

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dr. freeze said:
:clap:
exactly

why we want the government funding such a useless endeavor is beyond me

if it is worth it, people should pay for college with their own money

if it is not worth it, they won't

the government stepping in, will continue to make it worthless for everyone as it gets dumbed down even more

college for the most part was and is a joke

there are rare exceptions

I suppose if I'd gone to a cut-rate undergrad school like you and a cut-rate grad school like you, I would probably feel the exact same way. Anything to keep down job competition, right? Even if I didn't hate the poor like you do.

I am vehemently opposed to affirmative action in university admissions, but people like you who simply want to keep upper-level education available only to the wealthy or those who can afford to take on the long-term loans make me sick.
 
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blgstocks

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No doubt american kids of today are smarter than american kids of 30 years ago. With the access to info with internet and advancement in tech and medicine obviously we are not getting stupider. Test scores have shown that over the past 10 years kids are scoring much better in areas like math and history. - But compared to the world we are losing ground, we are becoming stupider. I do not know if we had standardized tests around the world 30 years ago to judge where are youth stands, but today we do have these tests and even though we spend the most of any country on education, our results compared to the world are at best average and going down comparatively.

So i would say comparitively our kids are getting stupider k-12.
 

dr. freeze

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bjfinste said:
I suppose if I'd gone to a cut-rate undergrad school like you and a cut-rate grad school like you, I would probably feel the exact same way. Anything to keep down job competition, right? Even if I didn't hate the poor like you do.

I am vehemently opposed to affirmative action in university admissions, but people like you who simply want to keep upper-level education available only to the wealthy or those who can afford to take on the long-term loans make me sick.


if you leftists weren't around to keep the poor down with your poor-hating programs and oppressive taxation on hard working people, there would more than likely be free college tuition granted at the scholarship level to anyone who showed any kind of commitment to achieve

however you leftists want to waste hard earned tax payer's money on mindless leftist indocrination and other gobbleygook during which most kids learn nothing to little and drink, gamble, and smoke the worker's money away

if an education is worth it, than to whom it is worth, he will pay or if the government and you oppressive leftist are removed from our wallets, we will pay to those whom it is deserved

you leftists make me sick after years of welfare and other wasteful, work and mindnumbing programs have reduced the poor to being dependant on everyone else

those of us who are only a generation or two removed from extremely poor yet SELF RELIANT people and immigrants seem to be doing just fine without the governments intervention and will continue to do so as long as you leftists and the government stay away

unfortunately you can't help yourself in trying to ruin other people's lives by dehumanizing the poor and taking away one's will to be self reliant, independent, and free from the government umbilical cord....such line of thought is not only counterintuitive but humanly degrading and insulting
 

djv

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So The poor working farmer of our country are still back in late 1800 early 1900. They had to feed us and stop school at 6 or 7 grade. Some were lucky if Dad let them stay to 6th. Now they just can't afford to go. But there still kind enough to feed all of us. And most get to go to 12 grade anyway.
 
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