Red Hot Chili Peppers torture? No.
Ashlee Simpson torture? Yes! :scared :scared
Ashlee Simpson torture? Yes! :scared :scared
so tell me is it torture to listen..
- Thread starter AR182
- Start date
:mj07: What has Jabberwocky been doing this whole thread??? Every thread I've read from him has personal attacks. Give me a break.
yeah, ok diaper. I stated how disgusted I am with the current collection of "leaders" who are denigrating and destroying the honorable tradition established by our forefathers, and said that torture is ineffective and immoral. But yeah, all I have been doing is name calling. You are right. You are a (Conservative) and I am a (Liberal), therefore, you must be right.
Last edited:
Saw same interview Al--and you forgot to mention when he asked lady attorney if loud music and cold room was torture just what would she do/allow to get info from someone with pertinent info that might provent catastrophe--and as most liberals he grills --she had no answer.
Since when do Geneva conventions apply to non military personel? --and this whole ordeal is not to change Geneva convention but to define vague statement.
Terrorist are not military of a country they are serial mass murderers
You want theoretical and realistical ?
How many liberals are anyone for that fact have you seen when mass murders/rapist ect who have violated/murdered their loved ones request that suspect be given the best possible council-are adamant authorities to go easy on questioning or plead to judge if it goes to court that he should consider if killer was given all the above considerations--yea right-- not a single one.
If you had 2 transit systems one checked all muslim luggage one checked none--theoretically liberals are against profiling in general but realistically which ststem do you think they'd avoid if at all possible.
Saw Krauthammer today on subject and wish there was way to copy discussion.
You think the libs haven't thrown out some ammunition for 08 on their "real" stance on fighting terror.
--by the way saw interesting commercial/testimonial from Kurdistan gov in iraq on fox--am curious if it is being run on other networks--anyone else see it?
Since when do Geneva conventions apply to non military personel? --and this whole ordeal is not to change Geneva convention but to define vague statement.
Terrorist are not military of a country they are serial mass murderers
You want theoretical and realistical ?
How many liberals are anyone for that fact have you seen when mass murders/rapist ect who have violated/murdered their loved ones request that suspect be given the best possible council-are adamant authorities to go easy on questioning or plead to judge if it goes to court that he should consider if killer was given all the above considerations--yea right-- not a single one.
If you had 2 transit systems one checked all muslim luggage one checked none--theoretically liberals are against profiling in general but realistically which ststem do you think they'd avoid if at all possible.
Saw Krauthammer today on subject and wish there was way to copy discussion.
You think the libs haven't thrown out some ammunition for 08 on their "real" stance on fighting terror.
--by the way saw interesting commercial/testimonial from Kurdistan gov in iraq on fox--am curious if it is being run on other networks--anyone else see it?
- Mar 2, 2006
- 4,794
- 120
- 0
Dogs - you might want to refresh your memory of the Geneva Conventions:
http://www.genevaconventions.org/
Convention IV:
Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War
Here's part of it -
"Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria.
To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) taking of hostages; (c) outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court, affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples."
Perhaps, but even Jeffrey Dahmer got a fair trial and wasn't tortured.
First, why did you have to say "liberals" when you then followed it up with "anyone for that fact". Couldn't you just have said "anyone". Second, I might not agree with our judicial process completely, but it has been in place for hundreds of years, and it is NOT OK in a DEMOCRACY for the president to just decide to change it because the "war on terror" isn't easy to fight.
If you had 2 transit systems one checked all muslim luggage one checked none--theoretically liberals are against profiling in general but realistically which ststem do you think they'd avoid if at all possible.
Uhh...you wouldn't avoid it? Sorry, but duh... And since you threw out a COMPLETELY theoretical situation that would never happen to prove your "realistic" point, I do find it a bit humorous.
Yeah, I'm so glad the Jeffrey Dahmer got a fair trial without being tortured. Are you friggin' kidding me. Let us perserve the rights of Mr. Dahmer and s h i t on the people he mutilated.
hiipo...the problem is that the liberals on the court f-cked up.....
anyone with a brain realizes that terrorists are specifically EXCLUDED from convention protections...
again...this is what happens when lawyers try and control war....
i guess it also looks like these asshats and their lawyers will be getting access to the evidence against them.....
and the mode of intelligence used to gain the evidence....
and in cases involving eyewitness testimony..those folks will be in jeopardy....
in federal court!....
the liberal justices have ruled that the protections of the geneva conventions do, in fact, apply to those the text of the documents specifically exclude: illegal combatants, i.e. mercenaries....
wtf?....how did they do that?...
now mccain wants them to have colonoscopies,prayer rugs,korans,halal food,......thermostats and soothing music.....
if these guys had captured mccain instead of the viet cong,his head would have arrived in the states via federal express...and his body via united parcel.....
anyone with a brain realizes that terrorists are specifically EXCLUDED from convention protections...
again...this is what happens when lawyers try and control war....
i guess it also looks like these asshats and their lawyers will be getting access to the evidence against them.....
and the mode of intelligence used to gain the evidence....
and in cases involving eyewitness testimony..those folks will be in jeopardy....
in federal court!....
the liberal justices have ruled that the protections of the geneva conventions do, in fact, apply to those the text of the documents specifically exclude: illegal combatants, i.e. mercenaries....
wtf?....how did they do that?...
now mccain wants them to have colonoscopies,prayer rugs,korans,halal food,......thermostats and soothing music.....
if these guys had captured mccain instead of the viet cong,his head would have arrived in the states via federal express...and his body via united parcel.....
Last edited:
does anyone remember ww2?....
apparently liberal justices are so educated that they don't understand the meaning of the words "uniformed combatants" (i.e., to whom the geneva convention applies)...these justices apparently would have ruled against shooting spies in wwii...which occurred,btw....
...i'm speechless.....
ar`s right,hippo...some people are gonna need a sharp stick in THEIR eye before they get it...
apparently liberal justices are so educated that they don't understand the meaning of the words "uniformed combatants" (i.e., to whom the geneva convention applies)...these justices apparently would have ruled against shooting spies in wwii...which occurred,btw....
...i'm speechless.....
ar`s right,hippo...some people are gonna need a sharp stick in THEIR eye before they get it...
Labels lol these so call label spouters ought to start giving back everything liberals have given them. They wont tho but they will show their stupidity to constantly use that label. In all reality we are all mostly liberal and conservative.
By the way im for torture. Why not this asshole administration got caught doing it and now the soldiers are the ones who will always reap the bad benefits these pricked caused. You might as well torture now since this administration is making us the laughing stock in the world. When i first saw the Abu Grabib torture photos i knew this was the worst thinkg that could happen to our soldiers. But when you have guys who never experience war running it what can you do?
A good way to torture would be to put on rap music and let the prisoners read some of these right wingers post.
Hippo Don't need refresher course on Geneva
----however you might want to read it all instead of bits and pieces liberal blogs put up--in laymens terms from Wikepedia--
Qualifications
In principle, to be entitled to prisoner of war status, the captured service member must have conducted operations according to the laws and customs of war: be part of a chain of command and wear a uniform and bear arms openly. Thus, franc-tireurs, terrorists and spies may be excluded. In practice, these criteria are not always interpreted strictly. Guerrillas, for example, may not wear a uniform or carry arms openly yet are typically granted POW status if captured. However, guerrillas or any other combatant may not be granted the status if they try to use both the civilian and the military status. Thus, the importance of uniforms ? or as in the guerrilla case, a badge ? to keep this important rule of warfare.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know the thought wouldn't occur to those that never served but prime example is soildiers consideration of dressing like civilians in enemy territory in covert operations ran risk of being treated as spies vs soilders which was HUGE diff.
===
and you know which transit I'd get on and might recheck a few bags of theirs personally
===========
Two very simple questions liberals refuse to answer on subject that you and others may wish to enlighten us with--
Since this is context in question-
"c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; "
1st question--what methods are you going to use to interrogate prisnors?
--by your
"Perhaps, but even Jeffrey Dahmer got a fair trial and wasn't tortured."
remark do we assume it would be same interrogation as stateside criminals get?
2nd Question What are you going to tell the citizens who lives are lost due to your insane PC attitude. Supposedly 8 terrorist attacks were prevented due to current interrogation lets just dwell on one of the airplane ordeal. What do you tell the survivors of thousands who deaths would be directly attributed to the PC crowd.
How ironic is it that those who whined how 911 could have been prevented are very same wanting to stop one of few methods we have to prevent such occurances.
Liberal logic at its finest.
----however you might want to read it all instead of bits and pieces liberal blogs put up--in laymens terms from Wikepedia--
Qualifications
In principle, to be entitled to prisoner of war status, the captured service member must have conducted operations according to the laws and customs of war: be part of a chain of command and wear a uniform and bear arms openly. Thus, franc-tireurs, terrorists and spies may be excluded. In practice, these criteria are not always interpreted strictly. Guerrillas, for example, may not wear a uniform or carry arms openly yet are typically granted POW status if captured. However, guerrillas or any other combatant may not be granted the status if they try to use both the civilian and the military status. Thus, the importance of uniforms ? or as in the guerrilla case, a badge ? to keep this important rule of warfare.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know the thought wouldn't occur to those that never served but prime example is soildiers consideration of dressing like civilians in enemy territory in covert operations ran risk of being treated as spies vs soilders which was HUGE diff.
===
and you know which transit I'd get on and might recheck a few bags of theirs personally
===========
Two very simple questions liberals refuse to answer on subject that you and others may wish to enlighten us with--
Since this is context in question-
"c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; "
1st question--what methods are you going to use to interrogate prisnors?
--by your
"Perhaps, but even Jeffrey Dahmer got a fair trial and wasn't tortured."
remark do we assume it would be same interrogation as stateside criminals get?
2nd Question What are you going to tell the citizens who lives are lost due to your insane PC attitude. Supposedly 8 terrorist attacks were prevented due to current interrogation lets just dwell on one of the airplane ordeal. What do you tell the survivors of thousands who deaths would be directly attributed to the PC crowd.
How ironic is it that those who whined how 911 could have been prevented are very same wanting to stop one of few methods we have to prevent such occurances.
Liberal logic at its finest.
Last edited:
Put them in a room with that blond chic from Florida that screws 14 year old boys. Wow that should get there mouths running. Someone above said torture does not work. True for many but. There are a few that might not like nails under there finger nails that may make them have something to say. I say we take the high road and try to protect our guys as best we can. However if there is a track that rules are not followed towards any of our men. Then there may need to be the old saying. A eye for a eye.
Wayne,
I guess i'll address you also. You seem all bothered that we might not be able to scream Red Hot Chili Pepper music at captives, but like Al, you apparently have no opinion on us passing on a very easy opportunity to kill 190 Taliban members in one strike.
Which is more important?
Nevermind, that doesn't matter. I know the answer.
One would require that you actually criticize our current admin and the other gives you a free shot at 'liberals.'
But which is more important in this 'war on terror', would you say?
I guess i'll address you also. You seem all bothered that we might not be able to scream Red Hot Chili Pepper music at captives, but like Al, you apparently have no opinion on us passing on a very easy opportunity to kill 190 Taliban members in one strike.
Which is more important?
Nevermind, that doesn't matter. I know the answer.
One would require that you actually criticize our current admin and the other gives you a free shot at 'liberals.'
But which is more important in this 'war on terror', would you say?
- Mar 2, 2006
- 4,794
- 120
- 0
h.h...i`ll say it again...you are obviously a very nice person......a good human being...salt of the earth...
but you are painfully naive.....dangerously naive.....
this isn`t a game....nice guys don`t always finish first, like in the movies....
read up on the civil war, ww1 and ww2....and think about it...
think about what might have happened had we approached those conflicts as we are handling the w.o.t....and as we handled viet nam.....
think about folks with the option of jumping 100 stories to their deaths...or being burned alive.....
think about how our enemies are sawing(not cutting) our soldiers...reporters...their own people`s heads off......
no judge...no jury....no appeal...nothing....
and they get 3 meals,a koran,exercise...COLONOSCOPIES!.......
that,young lady,is the difference between living in a theoretical world....and the real world...
that is the difference between generals fighting the war.....and lawyers doing what they do best...muddying the waters....
i`m sure macarthur,patton,roosevelt,u.s. grant and and churchill are turning over in their graves as we speak........
but you are painfully naive.....dangerously naive.....
this isn`t a game....nice guys don`t always finish first, like in the movies....
read up on the civil war, ww1 and ww2....and think about it...
think about what might have happened had we approached those conflicts as we are handling the w.o.t....and as we handled viet nam.....
think about folks with the option of jumping 100 stories to their deaths...or being burned alive.....
think about how our enemies are sawing(not cutting) our soldiers...reporters...their own people`s heads off......
no judge...no jury....no appeal...nothing....
and they get 3 meals,a koran,exercise...COLONOSCOPIES!.......
that,young lady,is the difference between living in a theoretical world....and the real world...
that is the difference between generals fighting the war.....and lawyers doing what they do best...muddying the waters....
i`m sure macarthur,patton,roosevelt,u.s. grant and and churchill are turning over in their graves as we speak........
Last edited:
- Mar 2, 2006
- 4,794
- 120
- 0
Hippo
I assume your answer to 1st question is same as I assumed-- you would use same interrodation as U.S. criminals as Damlier.
The utter nonsense of this is the Damlier's ect are already in custody and will cause no further acts--you have all the time in the world to extract evidence---you catch a terrorist with computer describing plot --time is critical because 1000's of potential lives hang in the balance of possibly a few days.
We differ on 2 also. I value american lives far greater than I do terrorist or any enemy of U.S.
The ten planes--hmm I thought Pakistan was 1st to get the goods on them.
Lets go to Khalid Sheik Mohammed --remember him--mastermind of 911--death of Pearl-the 2002 suicide bomb attack on a Tunisian synagogue in which 21 people died-a plot to assassinate the Pope during the Pontiff's 1995 visit to the Philippines-US intelligence report obtained by Newsweek magazine said Sheikh Mohammed had "directed operatives to target bridges, gas stations, and power plants in a number of locations, including New York City".
--now you remember??
He was subjected to waterboarding and spilled his guts--resulting in capture of "NUMEROUS" alquada top dogs. How many lives did this save--how much info do you think we'd have got with Hippo "don't degrade or humiliate routine--and at expense of how many lives????
to answer your questions
" My question to you: What would you say to someone who was wrongly held and tortured who didn't have any information?"
I'd compensate him and apologize to that person--and would you do same to the survivors of hundreds that died because you didn't to the right one who did have info?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"My question to you: What would you say to the family of someone who was killed by torture? I really would like to know, since I have an Ethiopian acquaintance who's family was tortured and killed by someone I know. What should I say to him? That it was right because they were seeking information?"
Would depend on if they were quilty--if so I'd tell em they should have done better job of raising him/her.
However I believe you are somewhat confused on which side is doing the killing. I thought it was the terrorist doing the beheadings ect not the U.S.
be that what it may--I'd lose a lot less sleep knowing I tortured (by your definition ie humiliation/degrading) an innocent person than I would knowing my fellow soilders/citizens died because I didn't) I would think that would be no brainer to prudent person--but evidently not.
--another fact is most of Special forces troops have same techniques applied to them that are applied to terrorist in their training including waterboarding--and its too gruesome for terrorists?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bottom line If I catch terrorist with info on plotting terrorist attack on U.S. soilders or citizens I'm going to "WHATEVER" it takes to get info out of him to save those lives--you and others evidently would rather not degrade/humiliate same at expense of american lives.
You have your priorities and I have mine.
However your priorities won't set well with general population and is exactly why you won't win national election in 08.
You'll even lose black voters and lets be honest you wouldn't have won a national election in decades if you hadn't carried at least 78% majority black vote--in fact you lost last 2 with about 90% majority.
Libs intense hatred of GW clouds their vision--they see what they want to see at anyones expense.
If Bush walked on water in his next address to the union--the next day headlines in NYT and liberal blogs would " Bush Can't Swim"
I assume your answer to 1st question is same as I assumed-- you would use same interrodation as U.S. criminals as Damlier.
The utter nonsense of this is the Damlier's ect are already in custody and will cause no further acts--you have all the time in the world to extract evidence---you catch a terrorist with computer describing plot --time is critical because 1000's of potential lives hang in the balance of possibly a few days.
We differ on 2 also. I value american lives far greater than I do terrorist or any enemy of U.S.
The ten planes--hmm I thought Pakistan was 1st to get the goods on them.
Lets go to Khalid Sheik Mohammed --remember him--mastermind of 911--death of Pearl-the 2002 suicide bomb attack on a Tunisian synagogue in which 21 people died-a plot to assassinate the Pope during the Pontiff's 1995 visit to the Philippines-US intelligence report obtained by Newsweek magazine said Sheikh Mohammed had "directed operatives to target bridges, gas stations, and power plants in a number of locations, including New York City".
--now you remember??
He was subjected to waterboarding and spilled his guts--resulting in capture of "NUMEROUS" alquada top dogs. How many lives did this save--how much info do you think we'd have got with Hippo "don't degrade or humiliate routine--and at expense of how many lives????
to answer your questions
" My question to you: What would you say to someone who was wrongly held and tortured who didn't have any information?"
I'd compensate him and apologize to that person--and would you do same to the survivors of hundreds that died because you didn't to the right one who did have info?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"My question to you: What would you say to the family of someone who was killed by torture? I really would like to know, since I have an Ethiopian acquaintance who's family was tortured and killed by someone I know. What should I say to him? That it was right because they were seeking information?"
Would depend on if they were quilty--if so I'd tell em they should have done better job of raising him/her.
However I believe you are somewhat confused on which side is doing the killing. I thought it was the terrorist doing the beheadings ect not the U.S.
be that what it may--I'd lose a lot less sleep knowing I tortured (by your definition ie humiliation/degrading) an innocent person than I would knowing my fellow soilders/citizens died because I didn't) I would think that would be no brainer to prudent person--but evidently not.
--another fact is most of Special forces troops have same techniques applied to them that are applied to terrorist in their training including waterboarding--and its too gruesome for terrorists?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bottom line If I catch terrorist with info on plotting terrorist attack on U.S. soilders or citizens I'm going to "WHATEVER" it takes to get info out of him to save those lives--you and others evidently would rather not degrade/humiliate same at expense of american lives.
You have your priorities and I have mine.
However your priorities won't set well with general population and is exactly why you won't win national election in 08.
You'll even lose black voters and lets be honest you wouldn't have won a national election in decades if you hadn't carried at least 78% majority black vote--in fact you lost last 2 with about 90% majority.
Libs intense hatred of GW clouds their vision--they see what they want to see at anyones expense.
If Bush walked on water in his next address to the union--the next day headlines in NYT and liberal blogs would " Bush Can't Swim"
Last edited:
happy hippo....
i want to apologize for jumping on you like i did yesterday....it was wrong.
i don't like the political correctness that is being talked about concerning these terrorist thugs..i definitely think it's wrong. they have no concern about how they treat people....ie...daniel pearl...& the 2 american soldiers who were recently captured & executed in iraq.
but to be clear..i respect the fact that people can express their thoughts but i do not respect liberal minded people's political point of view....been there.. done that.
kosar...
i didn't read your comments concerning people dying....i've tried my hardest to stay out of the poilitical forum because i don't like the way this forum has changed, i don't like some of the new people in this forum, & i don't want to get in arguments with people over the internet.
i want to apologize for jumping on you like i did yesterday....it was wrong.
i don't like the political correctness that is being talked about concerning these terrorist thugs..i definitely think it's wrong. they have no concern about how they treat people....ie...daniel pearl...& the 2 american soldiers who were recently captured & executed in iraq.
but to be clear..i respect the fact that people can express their thoughts but i do not respect liberal minded people's political point of view....been there.. done that.
kosar...
i didn't read your comments concerning people dying....i've tried my hardest to stay out of the poilitical forum because i don't like the way this forum has changed, i don't like some of the new people in this forum, & i don't want to get in arguments with people over the internet.
- Mar 2, 2006
- 4,794
- 120
- 0
AR182 - It is no problem. I understand...and hold no grudges, but thanks anyway. I have great respect for you and most people on this board, even if we differ in opinions.
.......
.......
Last edited:
