We should answer Chavez - a good article

Chadman

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Answer Chavez
The world is as hot as "the devil."

Friday, September 22, 2006 12:01 a.m. EDT

This is what I was thinking as I walked this week along the siren-filled streets of New York: The temperature of the world is very high.

We have a global warming problem, and maybe it's due to an increase in the output of heated words. And they too can, in the end, melt icecaps.

"The Pope must die." "The Holocaust is a lie." "I can still smell the sulfur."

The last of course from the democratically elected president of the republic of Venezuela, population 26 million, which helps keep America going economically by selling it, at significant profit, oil.

His remarks were startling. No one wants to dignify them with a response. But that's a mistake. Because the world heard them.

U.N. speeches are, by history and tradition, boring. You daydream to them. This is not all accident, not only the result of the fact that a nation's diplomats don't usually come from the more scintillating parts of its elites. (They rose to the U.N. in the first place because they didn't fatally offend anyone back home.) Their speeches are dull because they know divisions can be dodged or blunted by a heartening vagueness. And so their words are blankets, not bullets; meant to envelop, not pierce.

But here was Hugo Chavez Wednesday to the General Assembly:

The "pretensions" of "the American empire" threaten "the survival" of mankind. The world must "halt this threat." The American president talks "as if he owned the world" and leads a "world dictatorship" that must not be allowed to "be consolidated." Bush will spend "the rest of [his] days as a nightmare." The U.S. government is "imperialist, fascist, assassin, genocidal," a "hypocritical" empire that only pretends to mourn the deaths of innocents. But not only the Mideast will rise. "People of the South," "oppressed" by America, must "strengthen ourselves, our will to do battle."

That's not vague. It's a call to arms.

The administration quickly moved to dismiss it: More bilge from the buffoon, more opera bouffe. We won't comment or dignify.

The right doesn't want to take him seriously (we don't need more problems), and the left doesn't want to see him clearly (we gave birth to that?). But Chavez's speech achieved a great deal, and it is foolish to pretend otherwise.

He raised his own standing. He got the world to look at him. He emerged in the speech as heir to the dying Fidel Castro, who he was careful to note is still alive and kicking. Chavez doesn't want to be the current Fidel, the old man in soft fatigues, but the Fidel of 1960, who when he went to the U.N. pointedly camped in a hotel in Harlem, and electrified the masses. Chavez even followed his speech with the announcement he was giving heating oil to the needy of the Bronx. You know what they said in the Bronx? Thanks! It went over big on local TV.

He broke through the clutter. Everyone this weekend will be discussing what he said--exactly what he said, and how he said it.

He shook things up. His speech was, essentially if implicitly, a call to resistance, by any means, to the government of the United States.

He broadened his claimed base. Chavez made the argument that it is not America versus Saddam or America versus terrorists but the American Empire versus all the yearning people of the world. He claimed as his constituency everyone unhappy with the unipolar world.

He acknowledged a particular reality by putting distance between the current administration and the American people. This is not so much new as shrewd, and telling. It is an unacknowledged fact known to every diplomat in the world that the people of the world like Americans. Old Europe and new, Africa, people on the ground all over, have some acquaintance with the particular American character of openness and generosity. We turn our faith, and guilt at good fortune, into do-gooding. We send money, bring bandages and overtip. The world has met us. (This by the way is our biggest foreign-policy strength.) Those who attack America are forced to speak highly of Americans, and Chavez did, which allows him to reach potential new allies here. People don't mind being told they are very fine but their government is very wicked. He gave new cover to critics of America. Jacques Chirac to Condoleezza Rice the next time he throws a snare: "You think I'm bad? Chavez would kill you!"

America has seen this before, seen Krushchev bang his shoe on the table and say "We will bury you." We grew up watching our flag being burned on TV. So it's tempting to think this is part of a meaningless continuum.

But the temperature of the world is very high, and maybe we're not stuck in a continuum but barreling down a dark corridor. The problem with heated words now is that it's not the old world anymore. In the old world, incompetent governments dragged cannons through the mud to set up a ragged front. Now every nut and nation wants, has or is trying to develop nukes.

Harsh words inspire the unstable.

Coolants are needed. Here is an idea. Don't try to ignore Chavez, answer him. With the humility that comes with deep confidence, with facts, and with some humor, too.

There is an opportunity for the Democratic Party. Some Democrats responded with spirited indignation the day after Chavez spoke. It was rousing. But Chavez's charges were grave, and he claimed America's abuses could be tracked back a century. If the Democrats seek to speak for America, why not start with a serious and textured response, one that isn't a political blast-back but a high-minded putting forward of facts? This would take guts, and farsightedness. Rebutting a wild-eyed man who says you can find redemption reading Noam Chomsky is a little too much like rebutting a part of your base.

As for the administration, it is so in the habit of asserting, defending and repeating, it barely remembers how to persuade and appeal. It speaks starkly and carries a big stick. It feels so beleaguered on a daily basis, and so snakebit, that even its mildest players have taken refuge in gritting their teeth and tunneling on. They take comfort in this: They think Chavez helps them. See what we're up against? But that's not a response, it's a way not to respond. It doesn't help, because it doesn't even try to cool things down. Which is no good, because the temperature of the world is very high.

Peggy Noonan is a contributing editor of The Wall Street Journal
 
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djv

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There's always some truth in what some one says. If facts are the true fact. But when most it just a picture in ones own mind they are useless. And name calling does zero. It's true the guy is trying to reach out some with his oil. But that's where it ends. He's just plain nuts and looking for attention. And he got it. What is sad in our own little world so close to our shores we don't do a better job of getting along. That can be blamed on more then just one country. I was shocked at all the countries last week calling us names because of our policies. That is a failure of our state dept. Soon we need to do better job closer to home. Mexico, Venezuela, and Columbia would be good places to start. The stupid name calling needs to stop from everyone. Personal attacks are useless.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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The solution I'd like to see is them replay video of all those that applauded him at next U.N. meeting and annouce all futher financial aid they previously received from U.S. would now be Chavez responsibilty. :)
 

smurphy

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The solution I'd like to see is them replay video of all those that applauded him at next U.N. meeting and annouce all futher financial aid they previously received from U.S. would now be Chavez responsibilty. :)

But we won't do that because we want something from all those nations.

Can't you see our hypocracy, DTB? We are never consistent because we want oil from someone, or a base from someone else. We let people trash us, but keep kissing their ass for sake of profits.

Venezuela is the great prime example now. At least with Iran, we haven't been doing any business with them for nearly 30 years. We get no oil or anything else from them (and of course this is why we sit back and talk tough on them). But we NEED Venezuela oil. We are so pathetically sold out to cheap oil, that we will allow this egomaniac Chavez to stand in the middle of NYC and call our president the devil. We'll take it like bitches because we want that mutha-fukin oil.

Sure, lots of right wing talking heads will pretend to be tough. But while they call for Chavez to be "taken out", they're not hesitating to fill up their 15mpg SUV or 8 mpg limo - only making him stronger. This whole game is so stupid. Just wait til Saudi Arabia grows balls and starts verbally attacking us. If we are pathetic now, we'll look 10 times worse by then. They might even slap our president in the flower garden.

Great article, Chadman!
 

The Sponge

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But we won't do that because we want something from all those nations.

Can't you see our hypocracy, DTB? We are never consistent because we want oil from someone, or a base from someone else. We let people trash us, but keep kissing their ass for sake of profits.

Venezuela is the great prime example now. At least with Iran, we haven't been doing any business with them for nearly 30 years. We get no oil or anything else from them (and of course this is why we sit back and talk tough on them). But we NEED Venezuela oil. We are so pathetically sold out to cheap oil, that we will allow this egomaniac Chavez to stand in the middle of NYC and call our president the devil. We'll take it like bitches because we want that mutha-fukin oil.

Sure, lots of right wing talking heads will pretend to be tough. But while they call for Chavez to be "taken out", they're not hesitating to fill up their 15mpg SUV or 8 mpg limo - only making him stronger. This whole game is so stupid. Just wait til Saudi Arabia grows balls and starts verbally attacking us. If we are pathetic now, we'll look 10 times worse by then. They might even slap our president in the flower garden.

Great article, Chadman!
Im surprised the right wingers haven't used his speech to get their grimmy hands in Alaska again. Where are you Ted Stevens? Here is another shot to get that oil and send it to Asia
 

smurphy

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Im surprised the right wingers haven't used his speech to get their grimmy hands in Alaska again. Where are you Ted Stevens? Here is another shot to get that oil and send it to Asia
Those comments are coming, I'm sure. They might even gain more support for drilling in Alaska. It's too bad there's no real solution up there. The oil is very expensive to extract and refine, and the quantity will not satisfy our thirst for very long. ...And yeah, your probably right - it would just go to Asia, while we continue to purchase the better stuff from SA and Ven.

Why not conservation? Why not a real transition in fuel? Why are we this stubborn, to the point of compromising ourselves around the world?

Maybe Chavez is right. It takes one to know one though. I'm sick of all these devils.
 

The Sponge

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Those comments are coming, I'm sure. They might even gain more support for drilling in Alaska. It's too bad there's no real solution up there. The oil is very expensive to extract and refine, and the quantity will not satisfy our thirst for very long. ...And yeah, your probably right - it would just go to Asia, while we continue to purchase the better stuff from SA and Ven.

Why not conservation? Why not a real transition in fuel? Why are we this stubborn, to the point of compromising ourselves around the world?

Maybe Chavez is right. It takes one to know one though. I'm sick of all these devils.

Smurph there is plenty of oil. This is all about greed. These guys run the show. When the price went skyrocketing did you have any problem getting any? You could pull up to any station in your neighborhood. The supplies were alledgelly tight but every gas station had it. As for global warming if this is true and it looks like it is these guys are not gonna eat the oil. We will sell it till there is no more. They don't give two shits about the envirorment. We could get off this crap in a year if we wanted to but we wont. To think these guys got tax incentives really can burn a guy up. We are right back in this awful cycle. We are now condition to think under two dollars is cheap. They drop it for a vary of reasons. This time its an election. After Carter they finally dropped it because people went to smaller cars. They knew they had to dropped it because it was starting to stockpile so this sucks in Americans to buy the bigger cars once again. If the good lord came down and said the world is gonna blowup if we dont get off of this stuff in two years these guys would raise it to 100 dollars a gallon or more for those two years.
 

Spytheweb

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President Bush is a dummy, and the whole world knows it. The Emperor has no clothes.
 

The Sponge

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But we won't do that because we want something from all those nations.

Can't you see our hypocracy, DTB? .

. At least with Iran, we haven't been doing any business with them for nearly 30 years.

I hate to burst your bubble Smurph but we did do business with Iran. I know we were not suppose to but our snake of a Vice president whhile he was the ceo of Halliburton was doing a lot of work for Iran. How he got away with it is truly amazing. this is why this guy need to leave office as well as america. Edwards had all the ammo in the world in his debate with this snake but he pussied out. He just didn't say it. Just sickening.
 

smurphy

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What kind of work was Haliburton doing for Iran? I've never heard of this.

....and don't worry, I wasn't exactly nurturing a "bubble" with that statement. Burst away if you've got some info on that.
 

The Sponge

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What kind of work was Haliburton doing for Iran? I've never heard of this.

....and don't worry, I wasn't exactly nurturing a "bubble" with that statement. Burst away if you've got some info on that.

Here is something quick as i don't have much time
March 8th, 2005 5:30 pm
Halliburton operates in Iran despite sanctions


Associated Press

It's just another Halliburton oil and gas operation. The company name is emblazoned everywhere: On trucks, equipment, large storage silos and workers' uniforms.

But this isn't Texas. It's Iran. U.S. companies aren't supposed to do business here.

Yet, in January, Halliburton won a contract to drill at a huge Iranian gas field called Pars, which an Iranian government spokesman said "served the interests" of Iran.

"I am baffled that any American company would want to have employees operating in Iran," says Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine. "I would think they'd be ashamed."

Halliburton says the operation ? videotaped by NBC News ? is entirely legal. It's run by a subsidiary called "Halliburton Products and Services Limited," based outside the U.S. In fact, the law allows foreign subsidiaries of U.S. corporations to do business in Iran under strict conditions.

Other U.S. oil services companies, like Weatherford and Baker Hughes, also are in Iran. And foreign subsidiaries of NBC's parent company, General Electric, have sold equipment to Iran, though the company says it will make no more sales. (MSNBC is a Microsoft-NBC joint venture.)


Still, Halliburton stands out because its operations in Iran are now under a federal criminal investigation. Government sources say the focus is on whether the company set out to illegally evade the sanctions imposed ten years ago.

"I am formally announcing my intention to cut off all trade and investment with Iran," announced President Bill Clinton in 1995.

Sources close to the Halliburton investigation tell NBC News that after that announcement, Halliburton decided that business with Iran, then conducted through at least five companies, would all be done through a subsidiary incorporated in the Cayman Islands.

"It's gotten around the sanctions and the very spirit and reasons for the sanctions," says Victor Comras, a former State Department expert on sanctions.

For Halliburton to have done this legally, the foreign subsidiary operating in Iran must be independent of the main operation in Texas. Yet, when an NBC producer approached managers in Iran, he was sent to company officials in Dubai. But they said only Halliburton headquarters in Houston could talk about operations in Iran. Still, Halliburton maintains its Iran subsidiary does make independent business decisions.

Why should Americans even care if U.S. companies circumvent the sanctions?

"The purpose of these sanctions is to dissuade Iran from supporting terrorism and from seeking to acquire weapons of mass destruction," says Comras.

There's a move in Congress to close the loophole.

"We don't want American companies propping up a government that's dedicated to our destruction," says Sen. Collins.

Halliburton says it is unfairly targeted because of politics, but recently announced it is pulling out of Iran because the business environment "is not conducive to our overall strategies and objectives."

However, that exit will be slow. Halliburton announced it was leaving Iran only three weeks after Iran announced the lucrative new gas deal, which industry sources say will take three years to complete.
 
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