Weasal you want to pull out now

The Sponge

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Just another reason to get out of this hell hole. We have kids over there 18 years old but its taken 6 years to train these Iraq's. Either they are very stupid people or we just don't want to leave for reasons the common American can't even fathom.

April 2nd, 2007 11:50 am
When Training Iraqi Troops Turns Deadly


Iraqi troops turned their rifles on Americans on a joint patrol, exposing the risks for embedded U.S. military advisers. One mother?s quest for justice.
By Eve Conant, Dan Ephron and Rod Nordland / Newsweek

March 31, 2007 - Nadia McCaffrey sensed something was amiss. In 2004, military officers told her that her son had been killed by insurgents near Balad. Sgt. Patrick McCaffrey, 34, had been a combat lifesaver in a National Guard unit in Iraq for two months. But soon after his death, members of Patrick?s unit told Nadia that there was more to the story of that day than a common ambush. For two years, she pressed the military to come clean, demanding to see autopsy and ?after-action? reports. Finally, last year, a general arrived at her home in Tracy, Calif., with the real account: Iraqi troops turned their rifles on Americans in a joint patrol, killing Patrick and an officer. Now Nadia, 61, wants to travel to Iraq to see justice served.

Her son?s case is unusual. Thousands of U.S. troops are embedded as advisers in Iraqi units, and there are few incidents of violence against them. Still, with the surge plan calling for many more advisers to train Iraqis and patrol alongside them, some military officials worry they might become targets for rogue elements in the Iraqi military. ?Ninety-nine percent of Iraqi security forces are in no way a threat to our transition teams,? says Brig. Gen. Dana Pittard, who overseas the work of U.S. advisers. ?It?s the 1 percent that you always have to be careful of.? A scaling back of troops could actually raise the stakes, since advisers who?d remain in Iraq (up to 30,000, according to some drawdown scenarios) would no longer have the comfort of U.S. brigades stationed just down the road. ?If you withdraw most of your force and you have 20 or 30 guys embedded with an Iraqi infantry battalion in Balad or someplace else, they?re going to be at risk,? says retired general Barry McCaffrey (no relation to Patrick), who commanded an infantry division in the 1991 gulf war.

Members of Sergeant McCaffrey?s unit say they felt at risk from their first contact with Iraqi troops. Photos of Americans abusing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib had just been published, bringing tensions to the surface. ?They could be friends with us in the day and then set up IEDs at night,? says Spc. Chris Murphy, who served with McCaffrey. ?We had already arrested two of them for doing that.? On June 22, McCaffrey Second Lt. Andre Tyson and a third American patrolled alongside three Iraqis near Balad, looking for weapons and bombs. Team members had been on their feet since 3 a.m., and by 10 that morning, the temperature had climbed to 115 degrees. An Iraqi interpreter also on patrol that day told investigators Tyson was trying to operate the radio on McCaffrey?s back when both were fired on from behind by one of the Iraqis. Eight bullets entered McCaffrey?s torso; Tyson was killed by a round to the head. The shooter and a second Iraqi fled. ?I yelled at them but they did not stop,? the interpreter said in a sworn statement obtained by NEWSWEEK.

The killings precipitated a change in regulations. Now on patrols, Iraqi troops usually lead, with Americans safeguarding them from behind. Living quarters in most places have been separated. At Baghdad?s former ministry of defense, American advisers of the MiTT 2/6 (Military Transition Team, the American name for embedded trainers) share a common wall with Iraqi troops but the Iraqis are allowed to approach the advisers? rooms only after surrendering their weapons. ?We?re the only MiTT team in Baghdad who live this close to the Iraqis,? says Sgt. Eric Radecki, one of the advisers. ?There are walls between us but not much. If you set up walls, what you?re saying is, ?We don?t trust you?.? In unguarded moments, that?s exactly what some soldiers say. During a recent joint patrol of the 2/6, an American vehicle commander on a Humvee gave his men a premission brief. Turning to the gunner in the turret, he drilled: ?Hey, no one comes near the truck. I don?t care if it?s IA [Iraqi Army] because I don?t trust those f---ers either.?

Nadia McCaffrey, meanwhile, is determined to make her way to Iraq when her son?s killer is put to trial. McCaffrey believes the military deliberately lied about Patrick?s death and she wants to make sure judges deal with the case honestly. (Former secretary of the Army Francis Harvey cited ?human error? and ?a ?gap in our report distribution process.?) U.S. troops nabbed the alleged shooter in 2005, but a military spokesman in Baghdad said last week a trial is not in the offing. ?Several Iraqi eyewitnesses to the murders have disappeared,? Lt. Col. Keir Kevin Curry tells NEWSWEEK. And anyway, he says, attending a trial would be too dangerous for an American civilian. But that doesn?t deter McCaffrey. ?If I have to walk to Iraq, I will,? she says. For McCaffrey, it?s just another test of will.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
spongy....that`s why you can`t partially pull out...and leave some advisors on the ground....to "control al qaeda"(right....like al qaeda members are wearing paper mache heads or something)...

you just can`t leave a small contigent there....lord,tell the enemy when we`re leaving...and then leave a small unprotected contingent there as chum?...

get out.....or give petraeus the tools to have a fighting chance.....

they have to be there in force....fully funded and equipped......or be gone....

that`s all i`m saying....
 
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The Sponge

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spongy....that`s why you can`t partially pull out...and leave some advisors on the ground....to "control al qaeda"(right....like al qaeda members are wearing paper mache heads or something)...

you just can`t leave a small contigent there....lord,tell the enemy when we`re leaving...and then leave a small unprotected contingent there as chum?...

get out.....or give petraeus the tools to have a fighting chance.....

they have to be there in force....fully funded and equipped......or be gone....

that`s all i`m saying....

weasal id give this surge a chance if it was a real surge. Not 20 thousand. 200 thousand would help but it is over cause we screwed up everything on the way. How do you build an army over there. Is it just shites? Is it sunni's and shites? After these two groups have been murdering each other, now they will forgive each other and move on? These are stubborn people and that isnt gonna happen. It would be nice if we moved on the Biden plan, im all for that. You have to seperate these knuckleheads someway but then again if we do that they might not like it because an american thought of the plan. Jeez the republicans don't want to do this because it was a democratic idea. Its a lost cause. The biggest mistake they made was breaking up the Iraq military. Be nice if the oil wells would just dry up and then we would be out of there like yesterday.
 

gardenweasel

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Weasal you want to pull out now

That's what she said.

hey,bro...how you doin`?....sincere condolences on your loss ....glad to see you back.......

didja` notice who took your back......and how your fellow libs spongy and smurphy stood by and then attacked me in the general discussion thread?....they can`t be trusted....

that`s why there must always be conservatives around to do the heavy lifting.....

again,glad you`re back.....
 

StevieD

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hey,bro...how you doin`?....sincere condolences on your loss ....glad to see you back.......

didja` notice who took your back......and how your fellow libs spongy and smurphy stood by and then attacked me in the general discussion thread?....they can`t be trusted....

that`s why there must always be conservatives around to do the heavy lifting.....

again,glad you`re back.....

GW. I want to thank you for what you said in the General Forum.
These forums mimic life. I do not hold any hard feelings towards anyone for anything that was said. And I do know who had my back.
I don't think Sponge was so bad. He did offer is condolences as did FDC. In fairness I think his message did not come out as intended.
I was really looking for help when I posted the message. I was wondering if anyone had been in the situation before and if anything they did brought their animal back. Some had suggestions but for my buddy Frisbee it was too late.
Sometimes in this forum we tend to get on each other. That is because we feel strongly about what we are saying. I have said it before and it bears repeating. Most of us want the same thing. We just see different ways of getting there.
Anyway, thank you GW.
 

The Sponge

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hey,bro...how you doin`?....sincere condolences on your loss ....glad to see you back.......

didja` notice who took your back......and how your fellow libs spongy and smurphy stood by and then attacked me in the general discussion thread?....they can`t be trusted....

that`s why there must always be conservatives around to do the heavy lifting.....

again,glad you`re back.....

Weasal you misread my whole thought process. I was once in a discussion with that fellow and also tapped out. It could go on for months if you let it. That was why i thought it was hilarious that you were in one with him. I wanted to see how far you would take it. When you said it was childish i was laughing hysterically. I saw Smurph in a few with him. So when it was your turn and with your bizarre writing style i wanted to just sit back and enjoy it but you tapped out earlier than me. I was hoping it would get far enough where some of your terms like moonbat would come out. It started to remind me of the Barbara Bush thread you started when you and Scott went at it. That's all. Can't a guy laugh once in a while? As for Stevies cat, i never said anything derogatory about it.
 

gardenweasel

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"the bunker"
GW. I want to thank you for what you said in the General Forum.
These forums mimic life. I do not hold any hard feelings towards anyone for anything that was said. And I do know who had my back.
I don't think Sponge was so bad. He did offer is condolences as did FDC. In fairness I think his message did not come out as intended.
I was really looking for help when I posted the message. I was wondering if anyone had been in the situation before and if anything they did brought their animal back. Some had suggestions but for my buddy Frisbee it was too late.
Sometimes in this forum we tend to get on each other. That is because we feel strongly about what we are saying. I have said it before and it bears repeating. Most of us want the same thing. We just see different ways of getting there.
Anyway, thank you GW.


i may have misinterpreted fdc....i don`t know.....if i did i apologize....

stevie...we knock heads...but,it`s a good thing...i enjoy it....and i respect and genuinely like the guys in this forum(stw excluded)...even the misguided....:D ...

we have a good time...we get nasty...and it goes away with the next post...

we`re all in it together...

now,please get back to the business of beating me like a rented mule...

sponge.....way to backtrack....keep piddling on your shoes...
 

djv

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I have a idea. Lets do what 70% of Iraqi's want us to do. Leave. Hell throw in over 64% of Americans that want same thing.
 

smurphy

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I have a idea. Lets do what 70% of Iraqi's want us to do. Leave. Hell throw in over 64% of Americans that want same thing.
That 70% of Iraqis and 64% of Americans are all liberal blog-reading haters of freedom.
 

Chadman

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I don't know, I think I agree with weasel that we need to stay in Iraq and continue training them. Clearly, after 4 years of quality training, they don't get it. This takes time, after all. You guys are just dividers.
 

gardenweasel

el guapo
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"the bunker"
I don't know, I think I agree with weasel that we need to stay in Iraq and continue training them. Clearly, after 4 years of quality training, they don't get it. This takes time, after all. You guys are just dividers.

even though you may not be quite sharp enough to understand the long term ramifications of surrender,well said.......

a broken clock is indeed right twice a day....
 

Chadman

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I'll ask again...after all the time, money and lives spent on our efforts in Iraq, after all this time, do you honestly feel that if we set a timetable for say, late 2008 to redeploy troops in the area, that we would have lost the war and the U.S. would be "surrendering?" If so, I think that says a helluva lot about what we have accomplished in our efforts.

I think it does say alot about our decision to go into Iraq, that there will be ethnic cleansing and a complete destruction of the country if we do leave after six years of "making the country a better place for Iraqi's." Not my words, they are the words of the supporters of this war.

Also wondering if after the current surge is completed and it either does or doesn't work, will our efforts there be labeled as a loss, or a surrender if we redeploy? You have suggested you would be for stopping the war at that point in another thread or two.
 
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