Real Estate Lawyers or any RE experts opinions needed

[c20916]

We bought a new construction house last year from a couple. We closed on May 19th '06. we received some tax credits at closing, but $4,000 of thier money was put into Escrow b/c we didn't know how much the tax bill would be in '07 b/c it was a new house.

Tax bill comes and the county assessed it as improved land as of 2/26/06. The certificate of occupancy was issued on May 15th so their lawyer is saying they only owe us $85 for the 4 days May 15h - May 19th. We are saying no you owe on the improved value from Feb 26th - May 19th.

They are telling us if we don't accept their offer of $85 by Friday they are taking us to court.

I don't know why they are putting us in the middle this should be between them and the county, but they are putting the onus on us to fight with the county.

Anyway I just don't want to go to court and have the judge say we have to go by the certificate of occupancy have to pay the full tax bill plus their court and laywer fees. Anyone with any experience with this? I can't believe the judge wouldn't side with the county and use their date.

I have a lawyer, but I think he's a dope and I am never going to use him again.

 

[c20916]

Sorry that may have been confusing, I guess my question is this:

Wouid the judge rule against the county saying they were incorrect and we have to go by the certificate of occupancy?

According to my lawyer if he rules that way, the county is still not obligated to amend our tax bill.

We're talking to the assessors office tomorrow so hopefully we can get this worked out and not go to court, but we'll see what happens.

 

[Franky Wright]

Tax bill comes and the county assessed it as improved land as of 2/26/06. The certificate of occupancy was issued on May 15th so their lawyer is saying they only owe us $85 for the 4 days May 15h - May 19th. We are saying no you owe on the improved value from Feb 26th - May 19th. They are telling us if we don't accept their offer of $85 by Friday they are taking us to court.
I have a lawyer, but I think he's a dope and I am never going to use him again.

c,
At the risk of being called "stupid" again by one childish poster here, I will give you my opinion...:com:


One of the keys to this is how your Accepted Offer was written or agreed upon? On the offer I have always wrote that "the taxes shall be prorated based upon the latest known assessement x the latest known mill rate". Ok, thats fine and dandy for an existing house, but not new construction. Either you or someone who helped you with this offer told you to write the offer based upon what the taxes would be after the home is fully assessed, which according to you was Feb. 26th, 2006 :SIB , did you mean 2007:shrug: ? So, you both agreed to escrow $4000 to take care of what the actual taxes would be for the period from Jan 1, 2006 thru your date of closing. Which would be the time the sellers owned the property and are responsible for the taxes during that time period. There is NO way that it is only $85 for over 1/3 of the year?

Anyway, the lawyer for them is just posturing, and acting like he is right and looking to see if you will just lay down and agree to this, at least thats what I can see here...

c, let me know what the offer says, check the dates, and how your taxing authority works there, and I should be able to help you out ....

Franky

 

[c20916]

Thanks Franky,

Well the way the proration agreement is written it states that the seller is responsible for the taxes based on the certificate of occupancy, which is why their lawyer is playing hardball. And why they would only owe $85 b/c the cert was issued on May 15th, we closed May 19th.

However two sentences after that it states that the buyer is not responsible for any taxes prior to the closing date. So in a sense the way the agreement was written nobody would be responsible, but obvioulsy someone has to pay and that would be the people that owned the house at that time which would be the sellers.

The reason for the whole mix up is the village I live in is not consistent in how they do things. Sometimes the date they use for the cert of occupancy is the date of the inspection by the county, other times they issue it at different times for god knows why. So the county never really knows, so they assessed the house based on when they did the inspection which was Jan 26th, and they give people 30 days to move in so they assessed it as of Feb 26th. We talked with the county yesterday and they will not amend the tax bill.

So my Lawyer was supposed to talk to their late yesterday and if they dont' want to pay the full amount then I guess we're going to court. I should have an update today.

The whole thing is just stupid and a waste of time if we go to court, b/c I am going to win and have to pay my lawyer fees so unless we settle before court I can't win.

 

[c20916]

c,
Either you or someone who helped you with this offer told you to write the offer based upon what the taxes would be after the home is fully assessed, which according to you was Feb. 26th, 2006 :SIB , did you mean 2007:shrug: ?
Franky

No this is 2006's tax bill payable in 2007. We didn't buy the house from the builder, we bought it from someone who bought it from the builder, but something happened and they couldn't move in so they put it on the market at the end of 2005. The inspection was done by the county Jan 26th, 2006, we bought it in May and closed on May 26th.

 

[Franky Wright]

c,
I'm having a bit of a time understanding some of your dates, one you say you closed on May 19th, then the later is May 26th. Not that its a huge deal, but it is getting a bit confusing:com: I also understand the purchase was in 2006, tax bill is 2006, and due and payable sometime in 07...

Alot of things are coming to light, and as we dig deeper, it brings up more questions that I have. Some of those are;
What is the assessment as of Feb 26th or Jan 26th 2006?
Did the owners/sellers ever move into the home?
Where is the $4K escrow, has it been released?
Does the county not work on a calendar tax year?
I could go on....

You can get my email from Jack, and I will be happy to give you my number and we could talk this thru, or just keep me posted here...

GL with this c,

Franky

 

[c20916]

I'll get your email from Jack.

 

[c20916]

and here are the dates sorry to confuse you:

Inspection done 1/25/06
Tax bill for '06 on the improved portion is prorated as of 2/25/06, land is full year.
Cert of Occupancy 5/14/06
Closing Date 5/19/06

 

[Franky Wright]

I'll get your email from Jack.

Sounds good!

and here are the dates sorry to confuse you:

Inspection done 1/25/06
Tax bill for '06 on the improved portion is prorated as of 2/25/06, land is full year.
Cert of Occupancy 5/14/06
Closing Date 5/19/06

Thanks

 

[c20916]

c,

Alot of things are coming to light, and as we dig deeper, it brings up more questions that I have. Some of those are;
What is the assessment as of Feb 26th or Jan 26th 2006?
Did the owners/sellers ever move into the home?
Where is the $4K escrow, has it been released?
Does the county not work on a calendar tax year?
I could go on....

Franky

I haven't got your email addy yet, I think Jack's on his way to Vegas, so I'll just update you here.

To answer your questions,

The owners/sellers never moved into the home, they did however rent it back to the builder for them to use as a model home/office.

I am not sure where the escrow is being held, but it has not been released, and the county does work on a calendar tax year.

I just talked to my lawyer and he talked with the other lawyer yesterday and basically told him I wasn't going to accept anything except for the full amount, and that lawyer thinks that is just ridiculous. I don't see how me wanting his client to pay for taxes on the house that he owned is ridiculous, but whatever.

So they just went back and forth and my lawyer asked him why we would escrow $4,000 if we new they were only going to have to pay $85 in taxes, and the guy did give an answer. He hasn't heard back from him today, so I will either have the county Sheriff come to my house next week with papers, or he'll call my lawyer and say they are paying the full amount.

 

[c20916]

Well their lawyer just called back and they offered us $2,000. their portion should be $2,200 so they are basically screwing me out of $200 if I take the offer.

With this offer I am guessing they don't want to go to court either and figure I won't take them to court for $200.

My lawyer said if we go to court he would charge me $500, I know I should just take the offer, but it's bullshit that I have to pay .01 for their portion of the taxes. Can I just go to court and represent myself and make them pay the full amount? I don't see how they could win if they have offered to pay me $2,000 isn't that admitting we're right?

 

[layinwood]

C, I'm one of those people that would make them go to court. I know it's only 200 but I have too much time on my hands and I don't like people trying to screw me out of .50 let alone 200. :nono:

 

[c20916]

That's the thing I don't think they will take me to court if I don't accept their offer, by them offering to pay me $2,000 shows they know they don't have a case. So I think I will just tell them pay in full or we'll go to court.

And I am sure they'll make me out to be the bad guy, but it's the county who is charging the taxes not me, I just want them to pay what they owe.

they keep saying it's only $200, if it's only $200, then why the fawk won't you pay it.

 

[Franky Wright]

I haven't got your email addy yet, I think Jack's on his way to Vegas, so I'll just update you here.
To answer your questions, The owners/sellers never moved into the home, they did however rent it back to the builder for them to use as a model home/office.
I am not sure where the escrow is being held, but it has not been released, and the county does work on a calendar tax year.
I just talked to my lawyer and he talked with the other lawyer yesterday and basically told him I wasn't going to accept anything except for the full amount, and that lawyer thinks that is just ridiculous. I don't see how me wanting his client to pay for taxes on the house that he owned is ridiculous, but whatever.
So they just went back and forth and my lawyer asked him why we would escrow $4,000 if we new they were only going to have to pay $85 in taxes, and the guy did give an answer. He hasn't heard back from him today, so I will either have the county Sheriff come to my house next week with papers, or he'll call my lawyer and say they are paying the full amount.

Good, get it when you can(email) and I will try to follow up here. We aren't to far from each other anyways
When you say the guy gave an answer, what was it?

That's the thing I don't think they will take me to court if I don't accept their offer, by them offering to pay me $2,000 shows they know they don't have a case. So I think I will just tell them pay in full or we'll go to court. And I am sure they'll make me out to be the bad guy, but it's the county who is charging the taxes not me, I just want them to pay what they owe. they keep saying it's only $200, if it's only $200, then why the fawk won't you pay it.

FIND OUT WHERE THAT $4000 ESCROW IS TODAY/Yesterday! Also what it will take to get it out, probably a title company my guess?

Are you going to get a bill from your Atty for these phone calls and correspondence? Think about that :SIB

With them trying to screw you, now I am wondering if the $2200 number is correct, please verify that!

This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Its one thing if they dont have the money to pay you(where you could work it out somehow), but another that the money is just sitting there :scared

I would tell them to send you the agreement, look it over, and sit on it a bit, then decide what to do...or get back to me/us here

Franky

 

[c20916]

I am not going to accept their offer, I wrote my attorney a letter stating that I want the full amount.

My attorney figured out the $2,200 amount, I don't know the exact amount, but it's somewhere in that range, and it makes sense to me.

Apparently these people are in need of money so they are trying to do what they can to get any penny they can out of us, and they figured by offering only $2,000 I would just accept it, fawk that.

Here's what I wrote to my attorney:

We appreciate your recent offers, however this is not a negotiation for the price of a house or a car. There is a tax bill from the county for 2006 that is $10,400. As the agreement reads the buyer will not be responsible for any taxes prior to the closing date of May 19th. We understand you feel you shouldn?t have to pay from prior to the date on the certificate of occupancy, and we have gone back to the county on your behalf to try and get them to amend the tax bill based on those facts. As you are aware they have said they will not amend it. By making offers for what is less than your full tax portion, we feel we are being taking advantage of. We are simply asking that you pay your portion of the tax bill not a penny more or a penny less.

We'll see what happens on Monday.

 

[c20916]

Franky,

I haven't heard anything back about your email, see if you can get mine from Jack or IE

 

[Franky Wright]

Will do c .....

 

[kellyindallas]

The purchase and sale contract should define exactly how the taxes are payable. Typically, the seller pays up until the date of closing, the buyer pays for the remainder of the year. The money is typically held in escrow by a title company, who usually facilitates the closing. Who handled your closing? Where was your attorney this entire time? He/she should have explained, in detail, all of these items and how they work. Why is it left to you to interpret the contact? That's why you have counsel. It's hard to say what the intent is without reading the contract in its entirety. From what I can tell about the situation (without reading all of the documents), they are simply posturing and know they don't really have a leg to stand on. Sounds like your attorney is somewhat weak, they may perceive this and are just taking one last stab at saving a couple hundred of bucks.

 

[c20916]

Ok it's all resolved, they are paying the full amount.

They were apparently just trying to scare us into taking less than what we were owed by saying they would take us to court, and when we didn't flinch at going to court, they tried another offer for $200 less than the full amount, why I don't know, but I turned that down too.

Their lawyer is a real prick, after he told my lawyer they would pay the whole thing, he told my lawyer to bill me for what they were going to short me. Why this guy feels I am trying to screw him I don't know, the county is the one that issued the tax bill not me, I am just trying to collect what the county says they owe. Glad this is all over, and I am getting my full amount.

 

[Franky Wright]

Ok it's all resolved, they are paying the full amount.
They were apparently just trying to scare us into taking less than what we were owed by saying they would take us to court,

Ok, I wont say I told you so, but :mj07:

Please take that as a joke c :SIB ...
Really glad this worked out for you . I know Jack has been away, and I just saw IE's email address in another thread, so lets exchange email regardless since we are so close. And if I can help you or anyone else on this fine board, my pleasure :mj06:
One question, did your attorney charge you for the time with this? :shrug: Did not ever seem like he was going to per your threads. I know mine would:com:

Franky