liberals answer to illegals

DOGS THAT BARK

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Wonder what our liberals here think--that were advocating going after employers--any comments??




Judge halts illegal immigrant notices By JORDAN ROBERTSON, Associated Press Writer
Sat Sep 1, 12:26 AM ET



SAN FRANCISCO - The Social Security Administration cannot start sending out letters to employers next week containing notification of more serious penalties for knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, a federal judge ruled Friday.

Ruling on a lawsuit by the nation's largest federation of labor unions against the U.S. government, U.S. District Judge Maxine Chesney granted a temporary restraining order prohibiting the so-called "no-match" letters from going out as planned starting Tuesday.

The AFL-CIO lawsuit, filed this week, claims that new Department of Homeland Security rules outlined in accompanying letters threaten to violate workers' rights and unfairly burden employers. Chesney said the court needs "breathing room" before making any decision on the legality of new penalties aimed at cracking down on the hiring of illegal immigrants.

She set the next hearing on the matter for Oct. 1.

The Social Security Administration has sent out "no-match" letters for more than two decades warning employers of discrepancies in the information the government has on their workers. Employers often brushed aside the letters, and the small fines that sometimes were incurred, as a cost of doing business.

But this year, those letters will be accompanied by notices from the Department of Homeland Security outlining strict new requirements for employers to resolve those discrepancies within 90 days or face fines or criminal prosecution, if they're deemed to have knowingly hired illegal immigrants.

The judge's ruling Friday temporarily prohibits the government from enforcing the new rules, which were scheduled to take effect Sept. 14.

Laura Keehner, a Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman, said the agency was disappointed but expects to prevail once the court hears its full arguments.

"We'll continue to uphold the law," Keehner said late Friday. "We'll continue our enforcement efforts, and we'll continue to discourage employers who flagrantly disregard immigration laws. There are consequences for those actions."

U.S. government lawyers argued that the Social Security Administration needed to start sending the letters next week because postponing the staggered mailings would overwhelm staffers with a flood of responses if they finally do go out all at once.

Chesney did note rule on the merits of the case Friday but said the plaintiffs raised "serious questions" that need to be further examined by the court about whether the new rules run afoul of the law.

"It's a critical and very significant first step in the first legal challenge of this rule," said Lucas Guttentag, national director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Immigrants' Rights Project and one of the plaintiffs' lawyers.

In its lawsuit, the plaintiffs argue that the Bush administration could inadvertently harm legal U.S. workers and law-abiding businesses in its quest to punish employers who are knowingly breaking the law.

The suit says the new rules could lead to the unfair firing of legal workers. The vast majority of the discrepancies in the Social Security Administration's database ? more than 70 percent of the 17.8 million discrepancies, according to a 2006 report by the SSA's Office of the Inspector General ? involve native-born U.S. citizens, the lawsuit notes.

The plaintiffs also argue that many of the discrepancies are caused by clerical errors, or stem from name changes or different naming conventions ? such as the use of multiple surnames ? that are popular particularly among Asians and Latin Americans
 

Chadman

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At face value, I don't agree with the idea of the lawsuit and think the letters - and subsequent pressure against employers is a good measure. I've long supported pressure and the law against employers who hire illegals. There will always be problems and select situations where some innocent people are harmed or inconvenienced - but I would think going through the initial process, and then taking time to pinpoint who has the legitimate SS# with proper identification before firing and fining before that would be a good way to proceed.

I agree in principle with following existing laws as best we can when dealing with the illegal alien problems that we have. For those stealing or using SS#'s or identification that aren't really theirs, then they should be held accountable for that. And employers should bear some of the burden if it can be proven that they have done this a lot - I'm sure plenty have, and some probably have not.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Dems stance on Illegals starting to get a little clearer--


2008 Democrats woo Hispanics on immigration By John Whitesides, Political Correspondent
Sun Sep 9, 9:57 PM ET



CORAL GABLES, Florida (Reuters) - Hillary Clinton and other Democratic presidential hopefuls wooed Hispanic voters on Sunday with pledges to back a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants and attacks on Republican "demagoguery" on the issue of immigration.

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All the 2008 Democratic presidential contenders at a debate broadcast in Spanish on Univision, the country's largest Spanish-language television network, said they would push quickly once in the White House for a comprehensive overhaul of immigration laws.

Most of the candidates condemned what they said were Republican efforts to demonize illegal immigrants and use the issue of immigration to divide Americans.

"It is being demagogued and I believe it is being used to bash immigrants and that must stop," Clinton said of the debate on how to handle the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, who would be the first Hispanic U.S. president, said, "I object to the dehumanizing of people that want to be part of the American dream."

He and Connecticut Sen. Chris Dodd are the two fluent Spanish speakers in the Democratic field.

"The politics of fear are the most dangerous politics in our country, and those people who deal with fear and frighten the American people on this issue ought to be dealt with accordingly," Dodd said at the debate, billed as a discussion of issues crucial to Hispanic voters.

Hispanics are the country's biggest and fastest-growing minority group, accounting for about 15 percent of the population and at least 14 million potential voters in 2008.

President George W. Bush won 40 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2004, but Democrats see a growing opportunity to win over Hispanics alienated by the hard-line Republican stance on immigration.

A USA Today/Gallup poll in June found nearly three quarters of Hispanics identified themselves as Democratic, and Clinton, the leader in national polls among all voters, held a wide lead among Hispanic voters as well.

'FEAR-MONGERING'

Barack Obama, a senator from Illinois and Clinton's closest rival in polls, said the "fear-mongering" against illegal immigrants had been successful in recent months because many working Americans feel they are losing economic ground.

"A president not only has to speak out forcefully against anti-immigrant sentiment ... but make sure all workers are taken care of," Obama said.

Efforts at a comprehensive overhaul of immigration laws collapsed in the U.S. Congress amid a bitter debate on the future of undocumented workers and illegal immigrants in the United States, many of whom are Hispanic.

The Democrats condemned a bill passed last year by the then Republican-led House of Representatives but never approved by the full Congress that cracked down on illegal aliens and boosted border security efforts.

Richardson lampooned plans to build a fence along the Mexican border to protect against illegal immigration.

"If you're going to build a 12-foot wall, you know what's going to happen? A bunch of 13-foot ladders," Richardson said.

The questions were asked in Spanish and the candidates heard English translations through earpieces. All the candidates answered in English and were translated for the Spanish-language audience.

Richardson complained about the restrictions on speaking in Spanish.

"I'm very proud to be the first major Latino candidate to run for president," said Richardson, adding he was "disappointed" that 43 million Latinos would not "hear one of their own speak in Spanish."

Seven of the eight Democratic contenders participated in the debate. Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, recently returned from Iraq and did not attend.
 

redsfann

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Here in the heart of farm country, the issue of illegals is pretty big. Every once in a while, the Feds swoop down on places like meatpacking plants and detain a couple of hundred or so illegals, load them on buses and ship them back home to Mexico or other places South.
I would think that if there was truly a desire to end the problems of illegal immigrants-at least in these parts-- the Feds would simply say that if you are caught employing even 1 illegal, your plant will be closed and sold at auction. Extreme? Yes, but if there aren't any jobs open to the illegals, the problem, while not going away, would be drastically reduced.
We all know that will never happen as it very difficult for many reasons-- poor working conditions, low pay, odd hours, small population areas surrounding these plants--to fill all the positions needed to run these plants. Thus, the problem of illegals.
 

smurphy

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We must accept the fact that the labor is needed and go from there. Do we want to keep treating people like shit who are an integral part of our economy, or do we want to grow up, face reality, and deal with this in a reasonable manner?

We can't have it both ways without being complete hypocrites. All free market supporters need to recognize that this is simply supply and demand. Funny how many supposed lovers of the free market suddenly draw a line against poor foreign workers.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Somehow the unemployment figures tell me something different---Smurph

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104716.html

We apparently don't need more workers just need to find how to get some to work.

For the life of me how can some complain of unemployment figures--and poverty figures

---and think adding to both those figures with illegals aliens will improve things.:shrug:
 

smurphy

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I don't complain about unemployment. ...But that's right, you still assume I'm a liberal in every way simply because I think the Bush administration sucks.

Face it, you are stuck in a contradictory position when you support unharnessed pro-business capitalism combined with a hard line against low level immigrant labor. Do you realize what would happen if that labor force suddenly vanished?

A realistic approach that acknoledges the role these workers fill makes more sense than rounding up and booting them out. ....unless you don't care what happens to the economy, that is.;)
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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so you think illegals are answer/assett to economy--I told you before "if we can't get some people off the welfare roles to fill the gaps--I would be for Canada's approach. Where they fly them in and house them during seasonal work and fly them home afterward. Whats so tough about that?
 

Cie

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I don't complain about unemployment. ...But that's right, you still assume I'm a liberal in every way simply because I think the Bush administration sucks.

Face it, you are stuck in a contradictory position when you support unharnessed pro-business capitalism combined with a hard line against low level immigrant labor. Do you realize what would happen if that labor force suddenly vanished?

A realistic approach that acknoledges the role these workers fill makes more sense than rounding up and booting them out. ....unless you don't care what happens to the economy, that is.;)

I used to live in uptown New Orleans. On my way to the office at 7-7:30am, I would drive past DOZENS of men drinking beer in paper bags outside of gas station convenience stores and on porches of run-down houses. These "men" undoubtedly received the $$ to buy the beer from our tax dollars. Please explain why we shouldn't use them to fill in the holes in our unskilled labor force:shrug:
 

smurphy

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Why don't you find out if they actually are receiving welfare, as you assume. It's not very easy to get much welfare. They might just be lazy bastards who are content to be drunk on the porch and live like slobs. And if they are just leeching off the system as much as they can, ....well, at least they aren't getting much. There is far worse waste and greed and depletion of public funds from other people and ventures in this country. I'm not going to defend them, but I guess I just don't rank undeserving people collecting welfare as horrible of a transgression as some of you guys do.

But yeah, ideally every American without a job could fill SOME of the needed unskilled labor around the country. But there's no way to make that happen. Realistically, it's just not something that's going to happen.
 
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