murphy...i want a surf & turf..so you better save your money...

AR182

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Huckaboom and Hillabust

The surprising falls and unexpected gains ahead of Iowa's caucuses

By Howard Fineman
MSNBC
updated 1:17 p.m. MT, Wed., Dec. 12, 2007

WASHINGTON - Sen. Hillary Clinton?s campaign is teetering on the brink, no matter what the meaningless national horserace numbers say. The notion that she has a post-Iowa ?firewall? in New Hampshire is a fantasy, and she is in danger of losing all four early contests, including Nevada and South Carolina ? probably to Sen. Barack Obama, who is now, in momentum terms, the Democratic frontrunner.

On the Republican side, meanwhile, the race is shaping up in an even more unexpected way: a contest between two former Northern moderates (Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney) for the right to take on a Southern Baptist preacher, former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, who believes in the inerrancy of Scripture but not in Darwinian evolution.

This week is the last chance the candidates will gather en masse to confront each other, and in a neutral setting. They are wending their way through ice storms to Iowa, where the Des Moines Register and Iowa Public Television are hosting back-to-back debates.

Here?s where things stand for the major candidates with the most to gain and lose in the debates, in Iowa, and in the early going. Take a good look at the rest of the field. They won?t be around for long.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA

National polls still give Hillary a double-digit lead. Those polls mean nothing. What matters now is not the number but the direction, and Obama is movin? on up at a rapid pace. Little pieces of evidence matter. In Manchester, N.H., the other day, Democratic Gov. John Lynch showed up at the Obama-Oprah rally, ostensibly to introduce Oprah, but, really to cover his bets politically. The newest polls in the state show why: Obama is tied with Hillary, and people are literally exchanging her lawn signs for his. If he can win Iowa ? and it remains a big if ? Hillary?s campaign could collapse. New Hampshire would almost surely go his way. The Culinary Workers in Nevada might well endorse him, as could influential South Carolina Democratic Rep. Jim Clyburn. Black Democrats have complained for years that Iowa and New Hampshire are ?too white.? But the irony is, South Carolina African-Americans I talked to last weekend want to see if Obama can win white votes before they commit to him. There is no better way of doing that than in Iowa and New Hampshire. And don?t forget something else: he has 150,000 online contributors. He can raise cash fast.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON

If she is going to argue that Obama is unelectable in the fall ? if she is going to argue that the Democrats cannot afford to take the risk on a Southside Chicago street organizer ? she had better get to it in the debate this week. But it is a tricky proposition. In a way, Hillary is trapped by her own do-it-yourself feminist ethos. She should have surrogates out there pounding away at Obama. I haven?t seen them. And her husband, evidently, won?t do it. Why should Bill Clinton tarnish his image as ?America?s first black president? by attacking the man who might be the real deal? His circle is beginning to complain, loudly, about how Hillary is running her campaign. That kind of circular firing squad chatter is the first sign of a campaign headed into oblivion.

JOHN EDWARDS

Quite simply, this Iowa debate (and Iowa itself) is his first and last chance. He has placed all his money and bets for years on Iowa, where he is practically a local at this point. He absolutely HAS to win to get the media attention he needs to leverage his effort here into national momentum. He has the best, most cogent and inspiring stump speech, and a good, loyal organization. He could get pummeled by media dynamics. There will be exit polls on caucus night, but they will not be an accurate reflection of the final tallies of caucus delegates ? the legally meaningful number ? until later. Also, he is strongest in the small western towns, whose disproportionate influence in the delegate tallies (don?t ask) won?t show up in the exits. In other words, he could win but not get credit for it by the time the winners are declared.

MIKE HUCKABEE

He can expect to be under fire from all sides, and his goal has to be to keep smiling and talking and explaining in a genial way. The man has a temper and not the thickest of skins, but he is also a brilliant rhetorical tactician and a stone-cold survivor of some of the roughest local politics in the nation, in Arkansas. As a preacher and then as a novice politician, he said and stood for some controversial things ? things that come awfully close to sounding like he wanted to use public office to bring the nation to Christ. Ironically, it?s Mitt Romney who has had to defend his faith, but it?s Huckabee ? an ordained minister ? who has the real explaining to do. But his competitors probably won?t press that case ? too dangerous. Instead, they will focus on immigration, taxes and other less freighted issues. If Huck wins Iowa, he heads straight for South Carolina ? the real deal for the GOP ? and he will be hard to stop there.

MITT ROMNEY

The bad news for Romney is that he is getting blown out in Iowa, where he spent too much time and money. He and Rudy have to hope that the ol? prosecutor himself, Fred Thompson, is willing to step up and try to take down Huckabee. Romney?s hopes now rest not in Iowa, but in New Hampshire, where he would have to make his stand. Huckabee is the revenge of history on the GOP. Party strategists built the base on evangelicals in the South. Now they will have to live with the results.

RUDY GIULIANI

He clearly loves Judith Nathan, which is a good thing, because that love might cost him the nomination. The ?Tryst Fund? stories came at the worst possible time, and were particularly damaging because they involved the use of police resources by the law-and-order guy. He barely survived a grilling that Tim Russert gave him on ?Meet the Press.? Also, terrorism has faded as an issue. The top one now is the economy, which, on the GOP side, is translated into fears about immigration. Rudy is not, shall we say, well positioned on that issue.
 

roc612

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Al and Smurphy. sorry I missed you guys .
Murph,
I may want a piece of your bet with AR.
 

AR182

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Al and Smurphy. sorry I missed you guys .
Murph,
I may want a piece of your bet with AR.

roc..

i'll make the same bet with you if you'd like.i'll take a republican in 08 for presidency...you take the democrat

loser pays for dinner for 4 at any restaurant that the winner chooses....price cannot be higher than $100 per person....otherwise murphy was a little nervous about his bet so maybe he'll give you part of his...
 

AR182

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AR,
tell smurph I am interested
Roc

roc...

so i take it that you don't want to have a separate bet between us....

there is no need for me to see if you can get 1/2 of murhy's action..you should either contact him yourself via e-mail or he may answer you in this thread..but i should tell you the dinner will probably be paid off in vegas..
 

THE KOD

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Geez AR

now I see why smurph is so supportive of Hillary

He sees that as his only chance to win the

fawking lobster claws.

Holy chit. I hate to say anything bad about smurphs character but....


well let me think about it. He has been kinda nice to me lately
 

AR182

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Geez AR

now I see why smurph is so supportive of Hillary

He sees that as his only chance to win the

fawking lobster claws.

Holy chit. I hate to say anything bad about smurphs character but....


well let me think about it. He has been kinda nice to me lately

no scott, it's legit...i had drinks last night with murphy & bjfinste & they both are big hillary supporters.it was like a tag team..each one took turns saying good things about hillary. they even related it to last night's game between denver & houston...get this scott...murhy even said that hillary would have had the broncos better prepared for last night's game than shannahan(sp ?)...it got so bad that i had to leave early because i couldn't take it anymore...all i can say is that murph will be a very unhappy camper come the day after in 08...
 
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THE KOD

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no scott...i had drinks last night with murphy & bjfinste & they both are big hillary supporters.it was like a tag team..each one took turns saying good things about hillary. they even related it to last night's game between denver & houston...get this scott...murhy even said that hillary would have had the broncos better prepared for last night's game than shannahan(sp ?)...it got so bad that i had to leave early because i couldn't take it...

.............................................................


now thats funny.:142smilie :142smilie

I just hope everyone realizes that Hillary is for the destruction of Israel from the inside out.

I hope I will not be asked to resign my post here at madjacks.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Knowing AR --he has already bet Hilliary to win in primary back when odds were even money --and is looking at break even at worst and could easily win both. ;)

Took Hilliary myself in primary in political wager thread here--but waiting for just after Dem convention when the dem political emotions are at their highest to look for my hedge :)

---however would not be too disappointed to lose my primary wager either.
 

smurphy

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AR,
tell smurph I am interested
Roc
:mj07: Yeah, I'll share the wager.:SIB

The REAL reason I want Hillary to win is to experience the reactions from Scott and the other Hillary haters around here. That would be priceless.
 

THE KOD

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Total garbage. How can you let yourself say such stupid things?

............................................................

It gets worse smurph

Hillary is coked out of her head half the time,hasnt had sex with Slick willy in five years, is having a affair with Jodie Foster and eats at the Y regularly, and has converted over to the muslim faith, is a sick racist and jewish hater of Israel.

:SIB

I just want it to be known I am a volunteer and have just basic affiliaiton with any Obama or Edwards campaign. :SIB

PS - I just emailed this to every news organization in the country.
 
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THE KOD

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smurph

there is no proof that I knew any of that to be true statements.

I was totally unaware that a volunteer would say that stuff,.
 

roc612

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Smurph,
If any democratic candidate wins it -the reaction for the non- progressives here and everywhere will be severe unhappiness and thought of impending doom for our country.
I rememeber the country thriving (and wall street also) during the Clinton years and the country was not divided the way it is today.
So much for the self proclaimed great "uniter "of our nation GWB
 
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