US Torture

[gardenweasel]

We are taking the main issue Gary not the consequences of war. You wouldn't know Matt Maupin's name if it wasn't for George Bush. He would still be my neighbor if it wasn't for George Bush. As far as Matt Maupin is concerned, his parents were just a photo op for George Bush.

The facts that you don't want to seem to accept are that Al Quida is now in Iraq and they were not there under Sadaam. The second fact you don't want to accept is that the government is permitted to look into each of our personal lives with greater impunity now then ever before thanks to scare tactics without any safeguards regardless of the Constitution and the last fact that you don't want to accept is that Bush has basically eliminated the checks and balances of the 3 branches of this government and totally empowered the executive branch so that effectively we are living under more of a dictatorship than ever before in our country's history.

As I've said before, he is a criminal and should be tried for treason.


Eddie

you`re insane....lol...this is what happens when things seem to break down and your beliefs, the "rational" anchors of your life, no longer make sense(maybe this is a long term effect of wearing super tight speedos?)....:shrug:

....

who`s living under a dictatorship?....who`s right to speak has been infringed upon?....who`s been jailed because of "surveillance?...who`s life has been looked into?...are you referring to bill and hillary having hundreds of republican fbi files in their whitehouse?...or sandy burglar stealing 9/11 documents from the national archives?...

spy...has the "s.s." visited you?....he`s still here...nobody`s "infriged" on him..

puh-lease...

thanks for making my point,counselor......it`s all propaganda...

you`re the living breathing result of a progressive/liberal education system.....a member of the reverend wright "g-damn america" club....

i remember when flunking/being a flunkie was a negative reflection of one`s character..now it`s a badge of honor...

and so the sickness, the cancer spreads.....why does it always strike the intellectually feeble first?...

and again,al qaeda WAS IN IRAQ.....zarqawi travelled "through" iran to get to iraq for medical treatment....IMAGINE THAT....

forget iraq...al qaeda was in AMERICA,counselor...and it was way before george bush took office...it was during clinton`s presidency....the 1st wtc bombing...
the same bill clinton that SADDAM and AL QAEDA wanted ASSASSINATED...

and btw chad,there were at least 30 terrorists that were released that were either captured or killed in the field of battle post release....

i`d rather keep 1,000 jailed to be sure than have one return to the battlefield to kill an american soldier....

i`m sure you disagree...i can`t imagine where we`d be if your forefathers had the same cognitive disonance during ww2 that you guys seem to have contracted...be sure to keep that box of kleenex by your side ......


they`re trying to kill us..they`re still trying to kill us...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...tml?in_article_id=555465&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

i don`t know what it`s gonna take to wake you knuckleheads up from the theoretical world into the real world...maybe having a relative killed in a terrorist attack would do it(god forbid)..but,i`m not even sure about that...the sad thing is that the real truth is like kryptonite to moonbats...

i can`t figure out if you`re fools because that`s just how you are...or whether thats how you are because you`re just fools...:shrug:

ridiculous,unappreciative,soft sheep that hate the sheepdog...blame the sheepdog....for protecting their worthless asses...

keep workin` it spy...you have a captive audience...most here are soft and mentally lazy...i know you`re laughing your ass off...

embarrassing....just embarrassing....

 

[buddy]

"Verrry eeenteresting".

 

[gardenweasel]

btw...i loved the way edward dodged the maupin issue by blaming "bush" for his execution......while bemoaning the horrible due process of our suspected enemies...whining about waterboarding while disregarding brutal murder...

if only we could see 1/10th of the outrage edward exhibits against his own country focused toward our enemy...

speaking of moonbats..http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/03/air-america-host-suspended-for-clinton-remarks/

 

[Eddie Haskell]

Dr., Gary, Chad, Jabs, Spy, and Buddy,

Went to the Reds - Dbacks businessmans special today and took advantage of several $7.00 water downed draught beers. Don't feel like being heavy tonight but, would really like you guys to join Wayne, Gmroz, myself and numerous others in Belterra, Indianna in August, 2008 for MJ's 2nd annual golf outing (see thread in general discussion forum).

eddie

 

[The Sponge]

You guys are debating the same guy who got a big kick out of the people he defends, outing one of our very own CIA agents:shrug: . Not sure the country really cares about torture. The country as a whole has been torched for seven years. Whats a little more? Ask Spitzer if the Bushy's abuse the surveillance act. He might have first hand knowledge.

 

[gardenweasel]

spitzer was caught in a prostitution sting,spongy...

if it weren`t an ugly enough day in this forum,we find out jesse "the body" ventura is a troofer.....

no shit.....http://tinyurl.com/33arqq

well,they didn`t call him jesse "the mind" ventura for a reason........

to many metal chairs to the head,i guess...

 

[Chadman]

and btw chad,there were at least 30 terrorists that were released that were either captured or killed in the field of battle post release....

i`d rather keep 1,000 jailed to be sure than have one return to the battlefield to kill an american soldier....

i`m sure you disagree...i can`t imagine where we`d be if your forefathers had the same cognitive disonance during ww2 that you guys seem to have contracted...be sure to keep that box of kleenex by your side ......

i don`t know what it`s gonna take to wake you knuckleheads up from the theoretical world into the real world...maybe having a relative killed in a terrorist attack would do it(god forbid)..but,i`m not even sure about that...the sad thing is that the real truth is like kryptonite to moonbats...

i can`t figure out if you`re fools because that`s just how you are...or whether thats how you are because you`re just fools...:shrug:

ridiculous,unappreciative,soft sheep that hate the sheepdog...blame the sheepdog....for protecting their worthless asses...

keep workin` it spy...you have a captive audience...most here are soft and mentally lazy...i know you`re laughing your ass off...

embarrassing....just embarrassing....

Okayyyyy...I've captured (figured you'd appreciate the verb, GW) the personal highlights from your last rant, and will address in kind. You kinda got me riled up a bit...so that will help.

I know you'll love my first response - just the kind of thing that makes me weak and stupid in your mind. I don't know what classifies as terrorists, nor do I know much about the 30 released dudes that you mentioned. Were they one of the guys that simply got pulled out of a car by some non-terrorist that just wanted to get paid $5K by the U.S. for handing over someone? That's a pretty good living over there in the sand, I would guess. Come to think of it, I'd guess I could find a lotta guys at $5K a pop to sell to someone with no questions asked. Pretty good gig if you can get it, unless your one of the guys they grabbed without reason or cause. I'm sure these "terrorists" were properly determined at that first stage, right? Let alone the years later on that it took the intelligence and soldiers to determine they weren't terrorists. And, even to use your number of 30 "mistakes", looks like the interrogators couldn't even figure out who were and weren't terrorists. This logic pretty much borders on the old reliable "Let's just bomb the hell out of the sand-******'s, and ask questions later. Wipe 'em off the face of the earth - that'll teach 'em.

Here's a thought: maybe if we didn't CREATE the battlefield in Iraq, maybe NONE of our soldiers there would be dead on that battlefield now. Maybe some would be, of course, had we stayed the course chasing the actual terrorists that DID attack us. Changing the course from the real terror fight to go into Iraq was weak - subversive, illogical, motivating to terrorists (in many ways), and quite possibly has made our battle much more expensive in lives and money, not to mention in length of time. Simply, it's not, nor was it, the same thing.

I'm not sure, but I have to think you're labeling me a fool, since my points were pretty much on what you were addressing. So, I'll play the name/blame game, too. I think every time you compare WW2 and Iraq, you look like a complete and utter fool. If you cannot distinguish the difference between the two, then you are at best being disingenuous, or at worst being a fool. I give you more credit that that most of the time, but that comparison is either one made out of a lack of sensible cognitive powers, or one that follows the administrations lumpage of all things being evil and equal - to scare people into agreeing with them. Both are quite possible - in your case, I lean more to the intelligent political manifestation of confusing the issue to win an argument. But, the more I see it posted, the less I think the simple foolish determination may be on point. If I have to - again - illustrate the difference between us joining the WW2 fight and us attacking Iraq, then I will. But I.O. hates it when I drone on, so I'll stop there for his benefit.

To lighten it up, I'm going to finish up with a new concern about your focus on sheep. Since I don't know what really goes on in your basement, and I tend to lean liberally, I'll just say, good luck with the sheep "study", and if you need to borrow one of my tissues, then let me know.

One last thing, I did know someone who died in the 9-11 attack. I was very moved and saddened by what happened that day. And every single time I think back to when George Bush told me that he was pulling most of our hunt for Bin Laden away to attack Iraq, it makes me furious. It should be an affront and slap in the face for anyone who lost a loved one or a friend in that attack. Maybe you've never stopped to think of it that way, but I know how time consuming it can be to corner those sheep...

:mj23: (The closest thing I can find to a running sheep - Jack, I think we need a sheep smiley in here if you can find it.)

 

[Chadman]

More Proof for Wease - amazing how you can eventually find proof of things, even when there is no oversight or reporting done by "responsible" entities that are "looking out for our best interests."

Documents prove FBI has national eavesdropping program that tracks IMs, emails and cell phones
John Byrne
Published: Tuesday April 8, 2008

FBI also spies on home soil for military, documents show; Much information acquired without court order

The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been routinely monitoring the e-mails, instant messages and cell phone calls of suspects across the United States -- and has done so, in many cases, without the approval of a court.

Documents released under the Freedom of Information Act and given to the Washington Post -- which stuck the story on page three -- show that the FBI's massive dragnet, connected to the backends of telecommunications carriers, "allows authorized FBI agents and analysts, with point-and-click ease, to receive e-mails, instant messages, cellphone calls and other communications that tell them not only what a suspect is saying, but where he is and where he has been, depending on the wording of a court order or a government directive," the Post says.

But agents don't need a court order to track to track the senders and recipients names, or how long calls or email exchanges lasted. These can be obtained simply by showing it's "relevant" to a probe.

RAW STORY has placed a request to the Electronic Frontier Foundation for the new documents, and will post them upon receipt.

Some transactional data is obtained using National Security Letters. The Justice Department says use of these letters has risen from 8,500 in 2000 to 47,000 in 2005, according to the Post.

Last week, the American Civil Liberties Union released letters showing that the Pentagon is using the FBI to skirt legal restrictions on domestic surveillance.

Documents show the FBI has obtained the private records of Americans' Internet service providers, financial institutions and telephone companies, for the military, according to more than 1,000 Pentagon documents reviewed by the ACLU -- also using National Security Letters, without a court order.

The new revelations show definitively that telecommunications companies can transfer "with the click of a mouse, instantly transfer key data along a computer circuit to an FBI technology office in Quantico" upon request.

A telecom whistleblower, in an affidavit, has said he help maintain a high-speed DS-3 digital line referred to in house as the "Quantico circuit," which allowed an outside organization "unfettered" access to the the carrier's wireless network.

The network he's speaking of? Verizon.

Verizon denies the allegations vaguely, saying "no government agency has open access to the company's networks through electronic circuits."

The Justice Department downplayed the new documents.

A spokesman told the Post that the US is asking only for "information at the beginning and end of a communication, and for information "reasonably available" by the network.

The FBI's budget for says the collection system increased from $30 million in 2007 to $40 million in 2008, the paper said.