Why are Republicans so against the troops?

The Sponge

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Showing real support for the troops
Posted: May 30, 2008
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? 2008
It's one thing to brag about supporting the troops. It's another to do so. And George Bush and John McCain are braggers.


The GI Bill is one of the most importantgovernment programs ever created, right up there with Social Security and Medicare. It was first passed by Congress in 1944 and signed into law by President Franklin Roosevelt as the final program of his New Deal. FDR wanted to avoid a repeat of the Great Depression that followed World War I and did not want WWII veterans to suffer the same fate as veterans of the Great War, who were given little more than $60 and a train ticket home.


Under terms of the first GI Bill, World War II vets who had served a minimum of two years were eligible for government assistance in getting a college education, with grants covering the cost of books, fees and tuition up to $500 a year. The program was enormously successful. College enrollment exploded. In 10 years, 7.8 million of 16 million World War II vets had taken advantage of the program. And economists estimated that, for every one government dollar spent on educating GIs, seven new dollars were pumped into the American economy.


What worked so well for World War II veterans should not have been limited to them, and it wasn't. Congress made the same educational opportunities available to veterans of the Korean War and, later, the war in Vietnam. Eventually, an even higher percentage of Vietnam vets than World War II vets took advantage of the benefits of the GI Bill. And now two Vietnam vets have moved to extend the program even further.
(Column continues below)

In a rare display of bipartisanship, Sens. Jim Webb, D-Va., and Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., both decorated veterans of Vietnam, are sponsoring legislation to upgrade the GI bill and make it available to veterans of today's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To qualify, veterans must have served since Sept. 11 in any branch of the military including the National Guard and Reserves. Depending on their length of service, veterans could receive payments covering up to four years' tuition at the most expensive in-state public college, plus a monthly housing stipend.


Surely most Americans agree that helping vets get a college education and start a new career is the least we can do to honor those who stepped up to defend our country in the aftermath of Sept. 11. The Webb-Hagel legislation, in fact, passed the Senate 75-22. Only the most hard-hearted could oppose it, and for only the flimsiest of reasons.


But Bush and McCain say they oppose offering benefits of the GI Bill to today's veterans because it's too expensive and because it will discourage troops from re-enlisting. Poppycock. True, the expanded program would cost about $2 billion a year. That's a lot of money, but it's less than the cost of one week of the war in Iraq.


It's also true, as McCain regularly points out, that the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the new GI Bill would cause a 16 percent drop in re-enlistment rates across all four branches of the military. But McCain fails to mention that the very same study predicts a 16 percent uptick in new recruits, who would be attracted to join the military by the same educational opportunities. Hypocrisy, thy name is McCain.


There is simply no excuse for denying veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan the same benefits enjoyed by veterans of earlier wars. But this is not the first time that McCain, who prides himself on his family's three generations of duty, has double-crossed his fellow veterans. In Congress, he's voted for veterans' benefits only 30 percent of the time, according to the scorecard of the Disabled Americans for America.


And for George Bush, this is just one more example of saying one thing and doing another. He even had the audacity to honor the troops on Memorial Day while threatening to veto the educational benefits millions of them are counting on. At least, observed the New York Times, he's consistent: "Having saddled the military with a botched, unwinnable war, having squandered soldiers' lives and failed them in so many ways, the commander in chief now resists giving the troops a chance at better futures out of uniform."


One thing is for sure: If Bush and McCain have any questions about the merits of the GI Bill, they don't have to go far for answers. McCain could ask fellow Sens. Frank Lautenberg, Ted Stevens, John Warner and Jim Webb, all of whom got their college education thanks to the GI Bill. And George Bush could ask his own father.


Had he listened to his father five years ago, Bush might not have sent young Americans to risk their lives in an unnecessary war. Had he listened to him today, he might not deny them the opportunity to improve their lives, if they're lucky enough to come back home alive.
 
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DoMyDermBest

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cut to the chase. You are an employer [in this case for an all volunteer army]. You have salary, and benefits. Would you give anyone a full 4 year education stipend if they worked for you for 2,3, or 4 years? BTW, thew won't be working for you anymore. Great plan to do away with an all-volunteer army IMO. Great Democrat program for the institution of a draft.:shrug:
 

Spytheweb

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cut to the chase. You are an employer [in this case for an all volunteer army]. You have salary, and benefits. Would you give anyone a full 4 year education stipend if they worked for you for 2,3, or 4 years? BTW, thew won't be working for you anymore. Great plan to do away with an all-volunteer army IMO. Great Democrat program for the institution of a draft.:shrug:

People will be lining up around the block to get in. You may lose people but there always be a new pool of bodies. Plus education makes people more productive and isn't that good for America?
 

The Sponge

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cut to the chase. You are an employer [in this case for an all volunteer army]. You have salary, and benefits. Would you give anyone a full 4 year education stipend if they worked for you for 2,3, or 4 years? BTW, thew won't be working for you anymore. Great plan to do away with an all-volunteer army IMO. Great Democrat program for the institution of a draft.:shrug:

These people are making the ultimate sacrifice. They should get anything they wanted in my book. I never hired anyone risking their life for me each and every day.
 

DoMyDermBest

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you lose EXPERIENCE , the value of any successful enterprise. If you can't relace the simple numbers, the dems have succeeded in loosing the war in Iraq by attrition,if not by experience.
 

bryanz

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People will be lining up around the block to get in. You may lose people but there always be a new pool of bodies. Plus education makes people more productive and isn't that good for America?

Yes, education does make people more productive & progessive, that is why America keeps al leash on it. The power structure of this Country has given lip service to education forever in my lifetime for a reason. Educated people are not going to do what the masses do for America. Education is a liberator, education is freedom. You can't keep them down, if they are free and liberated. They don't want the masses to be thoughtful and creative. Who would fight their wars, clean their streets, moe their lawns, clean their toilets, **** their wifes, purchase their poisons and accept they win, you lose, day after day presentation of their American dream at the cost of the masses. The stranglehold on education goes back to the days most Americans don't want to think about. Why would the power structure of America want to give aid to the masses by educating them ? The oppostion to the Gi bill is consistent. "Let them eat cake !"
 
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bryanz

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you lose EXPERIENCE , the value of any successful enterprise. If you can't relace the simple numbers, the dems have succeeded in loosing the war in Iraq by attrition,if not by experience.

You win your little battle in Iraq at what cost ? Who is going to win ? Not the American People. Big picture Pal ..... The American People need to win the ****ing war against US. This war is myopic. You Talk about enterprise. If any of us set out on a enterprise like this war, you would have to have a gun to the head of the investors.
 
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bryanz

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This war is anti American. We are to good for this war. We are not educated, so some of Us don't get it. Wave the flag, be a loyalist and stock up on the lubricant.
 

bryanz

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If some in America need to win a war. Why don't We just drop a bomb on Iraq and end this fiasco. I'm for that. What the **** are We doing, going hand to hand with an enemy without an air force ? What is the point ? Are We trying to build democracy ? If so, why ? Why this time this place ? All of a sudden we are charitable ? We have extra freedom to spread around ?
 
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bryanz

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This war was about WMD's.... Then it was about taking a leader out that We have given aid and comfort to in the past ..... Then it was about freedom for the Iraqi People.... Now it's about winning .... Winning what ? @ what cost ? For What ? What willl history say about this pimple on the ass of America ? Let's talk about enterprise. Was America as Our Fathers know it, threatened in a way that We can justify the "COST" of this war ? Use both hands and feet when you calculate.
 
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DOGS THAT BARK

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Amazing all the libs line up and as most liberal media fail to mention MCCain has plan also to up benefits.

Only diff is it goes by tenure--as in real world and jobs. The longer you serve the more benefits

The dems true to form want same benefits--you sign up for one term--set foot in combat zone for 1 day and get same same as multi tour vets.

My question to previous posters in this thread-

Is there any particular reason you tried to dupe everyone by failing to mention McCains plan--other than your simply clueless to the facts--or you don't want anyone else to be aware of them. :shrug:
 

bryanz

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Amazing all the libs line up and as most liberal media fail to mention MCCain has plan also to up benefits.

Only diff is it goes by tenure--as in real world and jobs. The longer you serve the more benefits

The dems true to form want same benefits--you sign up for one term--set foot in combat zone for 1 day and get same same as multi tour vets.

My question to previous posters in this thread-

Is there any particular reason you tried to dupe everyone by failing to mention McCains plan--other than your simply clueless to the facts--or you don't want anyone else to be aware of them. :shrug:
The Vets in this war like all wars have been nickeled & dimed to death. In the real world you don't lose a leg , kill someone or see someone killed on day one. http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/01/27/walter_reed/index.html The McCain Gi bill is just another example of the flag waving, we support the troops crowd that doesn't give a shit about the people that lay it on the line. These Flag waving Americans can't account for billions missing in Iraq but lets not get crazy and throw money away on the people doing the killing and being killed.
 

gardenweasel

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Showing real support for the troops
Posted: May 30, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

? 2008
It's one thing to brag about supporting the troops. It's another to do so. And George Bush and John McCain are braggers.


The GI Bill is one of the most importantgovernment programs ever created, right up there with Social Security and Medicare. It was first passed by Congress in 1944 and signed into law by President Franklin Roosevelt as the final program of his New Deal. FDR wanted to avoid a repeat of the Great Depression that followed World War I and did not want WWII veterans to suffer the same fate as veterans of the Great War, who were given little more than $60 and a train ticket home.


Under terms of the first GI Bill, World War II vets who had served a minimum of two years were eligible for government assistance in getting a college education, with grants covering the cost of books, fees and tuition up to $500 a year. The program was enormously successful. College enrollment exploded. In 10 years, 7.8 million of 16 million World War II vets had taken advantage of the program. And economists estimated that, for every one government dollar spent on educating GIs, seven new dollars were pumped into the American economy.


What worked so well for World War II veterans should not have been limited to them, and it wasn't. Congress made the same educational opportunities available to veterans of the Korean War and, later, the war in Vietnam. Eventually, an even higher percentage of Vietnam vets than World War II vets took advantage of the benefits of the GI Bill. And now two Vietnam vets have moved to extend the program even further.
(Column continues below)

In a rare display of bipartisanship, Sens. Jim Webb, D-Va., and Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., both decorated veterans of Vietnam, are sponsoring legislation to upgrade the GI bill and make it available to veterans of today's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. To qualify, veterans must have served since Sept. 11 in any branch of the military including the National Guard and Reserves. Depending on their length of service, veterans could receive payments covering up to four years' tuition at the most expensive in-state public college, plus a monthly housing stipend.


Surely most Americans agree that helping vets get a college education and start a new career is the least we can do to honor those who stepped up to defend our country in the aftermath of Sept. 11. The Webb-Hagel legislation, in fact, passed the Senate 75-22. Only the most hard-hearted could oppose it, and for only the flimsiest of reasons.


But Bush and McCain say they oppose offering benefits of the GI Bill to today's veterans because it's too expensive and because it will discourage troops from re-enlisting. Poppycock. True, the expanded program would cost about $2 billion a year. That's a lot of money, but it's less than the cost of one week of the war in Iraq.


It's also true, as McCain regularly points out, that the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the new GI Bill would cause a 16 percent drop in re-enlistment rates across all four branches of the military. But McCain fails to mention that the very same study predicts a 16 percent uptick in new recruits, who would be attracted to join the military by the same educational opportunities. Hypocrisy, thy name is McCain.


There is simply no excuse for denying veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan the same benefits enjoyed by veterans of earlier wars. But this is not the first time that McCain, who prides himself on his family's three generations of duty, has double-crossed his fellow veterans. In Congress, he's voted for veterans' benefits only 30 percent of the time, according to the scorecard of the Disabled Americans for America.


And for George Bush, this is just one more example of saying one thing and doing another. He even had the audacity to honor the troops on Memorial Day while threatening to veto the educational benefits millions of them are counting on. At least, observed the New York Times, he's consistent: "Having saddled the military with a botched, unwinnable war, having squandered soldiers' lives and failed them in so many ways, the commander in chief now resists giving the troops a chance at better futures out of uniform."


One thing is for sure: If Bush and McCain have any questions about the merits of the GI Bill, they don't have to go far for answers. McCain could ask fellow Sens. Frank Lautenberg, Ted Stevens, John Warner and Jim Webb, all of whom got their college education thanks to the GI Bill. And George Bush could ask his own father.


Had he listened to his father five years ago, Bush might not have sent young Americans to risk their lives in an unnecessary war. Had he listened to him today, he might not deny them the opportunity to improve their lives, if they're lucky enough to come back home alive.

you`ve become such a cut and paste tool.....

i`m beginning to think maybe "stw" was an alias of yours......
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Still waiting why everyone of you fail to mention GOP'S plan??????????????

the kings of distortions/decption/ half truths

just same shit diff agenda.

1st because they don't want to give children of those in NY making up to $86,000 a year free health care (the needy already have ssn-medicaid-ssi ect)
Its rebs hate the children

Now because they don't want to give a 1 tour cook same bennies as 4 tour special forces (they throw down their recruiting picket signs just long enough--for they hate the troops chants

--and while there hasn't been a slave in 100 years and some don't believe in reparations or affirmative actions--they hate the blacks.
--like they expect us to believe when they were freed--they couldn't wait to go back to africa :rolleyes:
 

kosar

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Still waiting why everyone of you fail to mention GOP'S plan??????????????

Please mention it. What's the plan, Stan? Don't be shy. Nothing could be much worse than the latest 'plan.'

Just same shit diff agenda.

Definitely.

-and while there hasn't been a slave in 100 years and some don't believe in reparations or affirmative actions--they hate the blacks.
--like they expect us to believe when they were freed--they couldn't wait to go back to africa :rolleyes:

Sheesh. That's all I can say, I guess.

Reparations has now been introduced as a topic for discussion here by one of our most illiterate and ignorant new posters*. Who the f*ck is asking for reparations? I know Al mentioned that some city councilmen from NY and Chi had some thing about it years ago, but wtf?

*(Hedgehog and the Ascended Mage aren't technically new, I suppose)
 

bryanz

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Still waiting why everyone of you fail to mention GOP'S plan??????????????

the kings of distortions/decption/ half truths

just same shit diff agenda.

1st because they don't want to give children of those in NY making up to $86,000 a year free health care (the needy already have ssn-medicaid-ssi ect)
Its rebs hate the children

Now because they don't want to give a 1 tour cook same bennies as 4 tour special forces (they throw down their recruiting picket signs just long enough--for they hate the troops chants

--and while there hasn't been a slave in 100 years and some don't believe in reparations or affirmative actions--they hate the blacks.
--like they expect us to believe when they were freed--they couldn't wait to go back to africa :rolleyes:

Where are you going when you get freed ?
 
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