Rahman vs. Toney - 7/16
- Thread starter Kramden
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Hmm, initially I thought that Rahman should take this fight easily.
Rahman didnt look good in his last fight, ok, maybe so, but what about Toney's last fight against Batchelder.
Toney could be past it, he's 39 and hasnt fought in a year.
From what I have heard Rahman should have won the first figh as well....
But, apparently there is some money going in on Toney and if he has promotional advantages...
I' m still going with Rahman, but I'm curious to see the weigh-in.
Rahman didnt look good in his last fight, ok, maybe so, but what about Toney's last fight against Batchelder.
Toney could be past it, he's 39 and hasnt fought in a year.
From what I have heard Rahman should have won the first figh as well....
But, apparently there is some money going in on Toney and if he has promotional advantages...
I' m still going with Rahman, but I'm curious to see the weigh-in.
Toney is super sharp as far as ring smarts. No one is more savvy. I think Rahman is training hard for this one. HR by SD.
Rahman's conditioning coach has been posting at ESB about how fit Rahman is and the various facets to his routine, he's saying they've sparred with Toney-like fighters and he's in condition to pressure the entire fight.
I read an article about Toney I think it was on Maxboxing, far less detailed but basically saying Toney has been getting great sparring and is in top shape.
Im more inclined to believe the good things about Rahman. His aging will likely be less detrimental than Toney's, since Rock will probably rely on power and volume punching while Toney relies on reflexes and timining. Toney has been getting hit at an alraming rate lately.
Right now it's no play, if I do, it's likely Rahman.
I read an article about Toney I think it was on Maxboxing, far less detailed but basically saying Toney has been getting great sparring and is in top shape.
Im more inclined to believe the good things about Rahman. His aging will likely be less detrimental than Toney's, since Rock will probably rely on power and volume punching while Toney relies on reflexes and timining. Toney has been getting hit at an alraming rate lately.
Right now it's no play, if I do, it's likely Rahman.
rahman:
"All of our sparring partners have been smaller guys with great defense, and great hands speed. All have stellar amateur careers, and all three have won multiple national amateur titles."
"He has boxed over 100 rounds in 3 weeks. He is lifting weights, but I have finally gotten it through his head that it's not all about strength. He is doing circuit weight training and the reps are in the 30-45 rep range. "
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toney:
Shadeed Saluki, a longtime area trainer who is probably best known for coaching Lamon Brewster to the 2004 upset victory over Wladimir Klitschko, has been working with Toney since December.
?Working with James has been beautiful,? Saluki said after Toney?s workout yesterday. ?He?s motivated and we seem to be on the same page, so it?s been easy.
?There?s been a lot of boxing in the gym and anyone who?s seen James lately can tell how hard he?s been working because it shows in his physique.?
"All of our sparring partners have been smaller guys with great defense, and great hands speed. All have stellar amateur careers, and all three have won multiple national amateur titles."
"He has boxed over 100 rounds in 3 weeks. He is lifting weights, but I have finally gotten it through his head that it's not all about strength. He is doing circuit weight training and the reps are in the 30-45 rep range. "
---
toney:
Shadeed Saluki, a longtime area trainer who is probably best known for coaching Lamon Brewster to the 2004 upset victory over Wladimir Klitschko, has been working with Toney since December.
?Working with James has been beautiful,? Saluki said after Toney?s workout yesterday. ?He?s motivated and we seem to be on the same page, so it?s been easy.
?There?s been a lot of boxing in the gym and anyone who?s seen James lately can tell how hard he?s been working because it shows in his physique.?
I always hear Toney is in shape and then i see him and it is like someone pulled the wool over my eyes. I don't care how in shape Rahman is he still sucks. How he ever won the title from Leonnix is still a mystery to me. why do i always hope that Leonnix would rethink his decision to retire, and clean up this mess we call the heavy weights?
after seeing ruiz make a fool of rahman...just play his ass with that punch and grab.....i don`t understand why toney doesn`t just buckle down ,get in shape and school this poser...
i`m afraid it`s probably too late,though...
how do you wager on this "thing"?....on the heavyweights period....
you have no idea what kind of shape toney`s in....none of the articles i`ve seen have posted a guestimate on his weight....
how do you know?.....all you get is the usual spin.....if toney were actually in shape,you`d think there`s be a sparring session photo or something...
the guy has been so disappointing late in his career.......even though not a legit hvywt,in halfway decent shape,he should have been able to beat most of the flotsum and jetsum in this crappy division...
i`ll save my money...
i`m afraid it`s probably too late,though...
how do you wager on this "thing"?....on the heavyweights period....
you have no idea what kind of shape toney`s in....none of the articles i`ve seen have posted a guestimate on his weight....
how do you know?.....all you get is the usual spin.....if toney were actually in shape,you`d think there`s be a sparring session photo or something...
the guy has been so disappointing late in his career.......even though not a legit hvywt,in halfway decent shape,he should have been able to beat most of the flotsum and jetsum in this crappy division...
i`ll save my money...
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Im thinking small on both guys inside, or the under if it's high enough, like +200.
if both are in shape, they could swing and not let it go to the cards for a draw or bad decision. this is truly the last chance for both. toney has been getting hit more frequently as of late and his chinning is showing slippage, i dont see him stopping rahman but its not out of the question, especially if hes behind on cards and in good shape. hes not a 1-punch ko guy, but his counters are very precise and if he gets rahman moving into an inside counter he could drop him.
if both are in shape, they could swing and not let it go to the cards for a draw or bad decision. this is truly the last chance for both. toney has been getting hit more frequently as of late and his chinning is showing slippage, i dont see him stopping rahman but its not out of the question, especially if hes behind on cards and in good shape. hes not a 1-punch ko guy, but his counters are very precise and if he gets rahman moving into an inside counter he could drop him.
- Jun 23, 2008
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i might be in the minority, but I actually think Toney CAN stop Rahman.
Rahman was dreadful against Sykes, more dreadful against Zuri Lawrence. I even thought Lawrence hurt him in that fight. And Lawrence is a guy with ZERO power.
I don't think playing both guys inside the distance is a bad play at all actually. I will consider.
it would be safer to stay away from this one, for sure, but I'm gonna try a bit on Toney.
it's more a play against rahman. and yes, goosen promoting the fight should tilt the home court toward "lights out" a bit.
def. a difficult fight to handicap with so many factors unknown
Rahman was dreadful against Sykes, more dreadful against Zuri Lawrence. I even thought Lawrence hurt him in that fight. And Lawrence is a guy with ZERO power.
I don't think playing both guys inside the distance is a bad play at all actually. I will consider.
it would be safer to stay away from this one, for sure, but I'm gonna try a bit on Toney.
it's more a play against rahman. and yes, goosen promoting the fight should tilt the home court toward "lights out" a bit.
def. a difficult fight to handicap with so many factors unknown
- Jun 3, 2008
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I havn't seen Rahman last 2 fights, but based on their first meeting and Toney's bouts against Peter and Baltadcher, i like Rahman and placed a medium bet at - 130.
I suspect Toney has been juicing for the last 4 years, and in his second fight against Peter he was on the verge of going down and was hit plenty. This after swearing his good gods he was going to prepare right.
Steroids + 39 years + out of his weight class + deteriorating skills/ brain damage = shot fighter.
Rahman might not amount to much, but at least he's a real HW and is 35 and has a jab.
I suspect Toney has been juicing for the last 4 years, and in his second fight against Peter he was on the verge of going down and was hit plenty. This after swearing his good gods he was going to prepare right.
Steroids + 39 years + out of his weight class + deteriorating skills/ brain damage = shot fighter.
Rahman might not amount to much, but at least he's a real HW and is 35 and has a jab.
Well, you can make arguements for both guys winning but the fact is the Vegas sportsline is about right. Rahman technically should have won the first one and has been more active lately. They've both looked like shit their past few fights so its a crapshoot picking the winner.
I think Toney was more promising and "should" be a better fighter but he doesnt train properly.
Rahman is a good, big, strong heavy who was once the HW champ- but he's lost nearly every big fight he's had.
Did Toney train hard? Is Toney shot? Does Rahman's recent performances give Toney a better chance?
Im staying FAR away from this one. Noone knows anything
I think Toney was more promising and "should" be a better fighter but he doesnt train properly.
Rahman is a good, big, strong heavy who was once the HW champ- but he's lost nearly every big fight he's had.
Did Toney train hard? Is Toney shot? Does Rahman's recent performances give Toney a better chance?
Im staying FAR away from this one. Noone knows anything
I keep hearing that Rhman was hurt by Sykes and / or Lawrence.
Can anybody comment on that?
Was it serious?
I still dont see a stoppage win for Toney, I think Evander was the last guy that got stopped by Toney....
Seems like staying away is the smart play here UNLESS a guy has a strong opinion and sound reasoning for said opinion. I do not. What, does a guy have to bet every fight regardless of whether or not he loves the play? Basically compulsive gamblers engage in that sort of behavior. If it's a TV play for S&G's then what the heck. But to bet any substantial $ on a fight wherein it seems most of us is clueless seems foolish.:shrug:
this isn`t the macho "franks" that i know and love.....this is more like "skinless frank"......
i think we should start a thread in which everybody "must" make a prediction based on the evidence at hand...just for the hell of it...for fun...
not necessarily wager...just give opinions....
maybe i`ll do that and see who`s carrying the horseshoe...`
`cause seriously,this one is a crapshoot...
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http://www.fightfan.com/?p=387
toney`s in great shape blah,blah,blah....
sounds like he means it,but,he is a tad overdressed in the photo(for a reason?)......
heres an article in which john salley of "the best damn sports show" says "in 20 years i`ve never seen toney in such great shape"...
did anybody see that show?...just hyping the fight for their network?...who knows?...
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=14889
o.k... i`ve always been a complete sucker for toney`s style since he upset michael nunn....
rahman,based on his face in the pictures,actually looks lean...
so,i`m going stupid here...very,very small on toney.....one last time...
i was undeservedly lucky last week...and theres lots of mma that i like this weekend....
sooooo,one more little fling with "lights out"....
i`m pretty sure i`ll regret it,though...
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Yea, just stick that needle in your arm. I've pissed away more $ on impulse/marginal plays than I care to remember. But hey, if it puts wood in the pencil, then fire away!:scared
very small rock inside +325, even smaller toney +490.
didnt take the under, this should be a razor-thin bout and neither guy wants the draw, rock espeically, since he's fighting under toney's promotion. a 12th rd stoppage isnt out of the question as stamina fades and desperation sets in.
rock could go for the ko if the fight is slipping. toney cant ko rock aggressively, but he can throw a beajutiful counter as rock gets sloppy and stop him.
i guess i just want a reason to care as im watching :shrug:
didnt take the under, this should be a razor-thin bout and neither guy wants the draw, rock espeically, since he's fighting under toney's promotion. a 12th rd stoppage isnt out of the question as stamina fades and desperation sets in.
rock could go for the ko if the fight is slipping. toney cant ko rock aggressively, but he can throw a beajutiful counter as rock gets sloppy and stop him.
i guess i just want a reason to care as im watching :shrug:
