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just one word for you pt1gourd
stifle y'self, dingleboy...
welcome back pt1guard. :00hour
The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft w/o Training
- Thread starter pt1gard
- Start date
stifle y'self, dingleboy...
welcome back pt1guard. :00hour
Jack banned PT and Tapir Capper, I guess this thread will quiet down.
Jack is a Zionist.
.............................................................Jack banned PT and Tapir Capper, I guess this thread will quiet down.
cool hand jack
got two idiots with one shot:00hour
I've been keeping this one in the hip pocket for a while now...
...but bored, beers...well, you know the rest!
Finally, a political thread that I can go at without offending anyone...
...well, at least I can provide some (personal at least!) facts...
1...I won't comment on the Pentagon plane, because I tend to agree that things simply don't add up in that particular case...(and I don't just mean aeronautically)...
...but 2...
...I hold a current Commercial Pilot Licence...did the majority of my training in a C172...and have never flown anything above a light twin aircraft...
...but before the obvious "oh, so you've never flown a B757" calls...
...in the course of my work I have flown about 200 hours in the jump seat of a Convair C580 (about a 50 seater for those that don't know) with twin turbine engines...(effectively jets with props bolted on, for those who don't know.)
a) Let me say that Microsoft FlightSim is [I]VERY[/I] accurate.
You wanna 'learn' about Nav systems onboard heavy jets?...honestly, not that hard.
Not sure if I can be bothered going thru and highlighting every point...but yeah, so you take control of a plane @ 30+ thousand feet...
...1) as I said, flight computers just ain't that tough Go to...nearest?...know the code for the airport you want, even better...easy...
2) GPS's are easier still!!...who cares where you should be going...see a map, point...:shrug:
3)...yeah, cloud base at what on the day?...20, 000??...oookkkk...so you duck down below that, and shabam!!...perfect vis...below 10k even...
...hell, I live in Australia and I'd back myself to visually find NYC from anywhere within about 500 miles of the place!!!
It's on the coast, it has a couple of rivers flowing to it...:director: and it's fucking big!!
But, back to some flying points...the reason I mentioned the C580...is that despite not personally flying anything with about 4 tonne of it, I could fly it easily.
Same controls...bigger plane!!
Ask any pilot, and you'll find that simply flying is the easy part!!!
No start up procedures, no low level stuff, no patterns to fly, no nice tight circuits, no communication with ground or other planes involved...no real nav required (despite hysterical claims)...
...let me give you the analogy...you learnt to drive in a 4 cyliner, er, Ford!!! ...never driven anything bigger...until one day you're in a 15 tonne semi trailor, cruising along nicely at 50 mph, when the driver tells you to slide across and take over.
You don't have to worry about fiddling with the radio, or talking on the 2-way, or turning on any lights...it's a reasonably straight road...oh, yeah, the feel of the controls is a bit different because of the weight...that will take you a wholw 2 minutes to get used to...
...but is it harder to control?...no...the truck has power steering, and you're old Ford didn't!
...you didn't have to worry about starting the thing, or getting up to speed...
...oh, and you don't have to worry about stopping it either, because Big Daddy Bear is just driving off a cliff! :sadwave:
Simple fact is you've got a steering wheel, gas and break pedal...
...you couldn't do it?? :shrug:
I'm here to tell you that when stripped down to the simple basics of simply flying a plane, it's a hell of a lot easier than people may think.
You steer! :shrug:
Stalling speed was never an issue...Never Exceed and Turbulance Penetration speeds can be found with a simple web search...either way, pulling the throttle back is hardly a science unto itself!
The only flight domains where an arcade / PC-type game would even begin to approach the degree of visual realism of a modern professional flight simulator would be during the take-off and landing phases. During these phases, of course, one clearly sees the bright runway lights stretched out ahead, and even peripherally sees images of buildings, etc. moving past. Take-offs "even landings, to a certain degree" are relatively "easy" because the pilot has visual reference cues that exist "outside" the cockpit.
I cannot disagree with this any stronger, than, well, strongly!
In fact, I'd stress the exact opposite!!
The very nature of Flight Sims make the "in flight" part extremely realistic...just that most people fiind the hours of sitting doing nothing boring!
Any one of you load up MS Flight Sim now, and I guarentee you can fly straight an level...(yes, even in a heavy jet!) ...
...whether you can land it successfully is another question all together!
Rediculous.
In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted "hard" instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying "blind", i.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn't have a clue where she / he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as "IFR", or Instrument Flight Rules.
And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that's all you have!
The corollary to Rule #1: If you can't read the instruments in a quick, smooth, disciplined, scan, you are as good as dead. Accident records from around the world are replete with reports of any number of good pilots "i.e., professional instrument-rated pilots " who ?bought the farm' because they screwed up while flying in IFR conditions.
er, no...it takes an IFR pilot to legally do so!...but again, not all that hard...
...and again, a simple portable GPS system is all you need to bypass all of this stuff completely!
AND...more to this particular point...
...er, how about we duck down below the cloud Rocky...du, huh?... :mj06:
Let me re-ittereate...he didn't have to start it up, taxi, take-off, communicate (with anyone!!...oh, my Engerlish is so farking barddd!)...
...navigate (below 10, 000)...slow down, configure for landing, fly a perfect circuit...hold in a pattern, line up in turn, fly a final...land!
...he just had to steer the fucking thing!!
Conspiracy...
...due to this evidence, fail I'm afraid. :sadwave:
[Unless, of course, that I'm some kind of flying genius! :00hour ]
Oh, and PS...just for the hell of it...
...S-A, you're clearly not my favourite poster...
...but I actually laughed at the emu!
Nice work. :142smilie (And may this be the last nice thing I ever say about ye... kurby )
...but bored, beers...well, you know the rest!
Finally, a political thread that I can go at without offending anyone...
...well, at least I can provide some (personal at least!) facts...
1...I won't comment on the Pentagon plane, because I tend to agree that things simply don't add up in that particular case...(and I don't just mean aeronautically)...
...but 2...
...I hold a current Commercial Pilot Licence...did the majority of my training in a C172...and have never flown anything above a light twin aircraft...
...but before the obvious "oh, so you've never flown a B757" calls...
...in the course of my work I have flown about 200 hours in the jump seat of a Convair C580 (about a 50 seater for those that don't know) with twin turbine engines...(effectively jets with props bolted on, for those who don't know.)
a) Let me say that Microsoft FlightSim is [I]VERY[/I] accurate.
You wanna 'learn' about Nav systems onboard heavy jets?...honestly, not that hard.
Not sure if I can be bothered going thru and highlighting every point...but yeah, so you take control of a plane @ 30+ thousand feet...
...1) as I said, flight computers just ain't that tough Go to...nearest?...know the code for the airport you want, even better...easy...
2) GPS's are easier still!!...who cares where you should be going...see a map, point...:shrug:
3)...yeah, cloud base at what on the day?...20, 000??...oookkkk...so you duck down below that, and shabam!!...perfect vis...below 10k even...
...hell, I live in Australia and I'd back myself to visually find NYC from anywhere within about 500 miles of the place!!!
It's on the coast, it has a couple of rivers flowing to it...:director: and it's fucking big!!
But, back to some flying points...the reason I mentioned the C580...is that despite not personally flying anything with about 4 tonne of it, I could fly it easily.
Same controls...bigger plane!!
Ask any pilot, and you'll find that simply flying is the easy part!!!
No start up procedures, no low level stuff, no patterns to fly, no nice tight circuits, no communication with ground or other planes involved...no real nav required (despite hysterical claims)...
...let me give you the analogy...you learnt to drive in a 4 cyliner, er, Ford!!! ...never driven anything bigger...until one day you're in a 15 tonne semi trailor, cruising along nicely at 50 mph, when the driver tells you to slide across and take over.
You don't have to worry about fiddling with the radio, or talking on the 2-way, or turning on any lights...it's a reasonably straight road...oh, yeah, the feel of the controls is a bit different because of the weight...that will take you a wholw 2 minutes to get used to...
...but is it harder to control?...no...the truck has power steering, and you're old Ford didn't!
...you didn't have to worry about starting the thing, or getting up to speed...
...oh, and you don't have to worry about stopping it either, because Big Daddy Bear is just driving off a cliff! :sadwave:
Simple fact is you've got a steering wheel, gas and break pedal...
...you couldn't do it?? :shrug:
I'm here to tell you that when stripped down to the simple basics of simply flying a plane, it's a hell of a lot easier than people may think.
You steer! :shrug:
Stalling speed was never an issue...Never Exceed and Turbulance Penetration speeds can be found with a simple web search...either way, pulling the throttle back is hardly a science unto itself!
The only flight domains where an arcade / PC-type game would even begin to approach the degree of visual realism of a modern professional flight simulator would be during the take-off and landing phases. During these phases, of course, one clearly sees the bright runway lights stretched out ahead, and even peripherally sees images of buildings, etc. moving past. Take-offs "even landings, to a certain degree" are relatively "easy" because the pilot has visual reference cues that exist "outside" the cockpit.
I cannot disagree with this any stronger, than, well, strongly!
In fact, I'd stress the exact opposite!!
The very nature of Flight Sims make the "in flight" part extremely realistic...just that most people fiind the hours of sitting doing nothing boring!
Any one of you load up MS Flight Sim now, and I guarentee you can fly straight an level...(yes, even in a heavy jet!) ...
...whether you can land it successfully is another question all together!
Rediculous.
In the case of a Boeing 757 or 767, the pilot would be faced with an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of assorted "hard" instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well. When flying "blind", i.e., with no ground reference cues, it takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret, and then apply, this data intelligently. If one cannot translate this information quickly, precisely and accurately (and it takes an instrument-rated pilot to do so), one would have ZERO SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I.e., the pilot wouldn't have a clue where she / he was in relation to the earth. Flight under such conditions is referred to as "IFR", or Instrument Flight Rules.
And IFR Rule #1: Never take your eyes off your instruments, because that's all you have!
The corollary to Rule #1: If you can't read the instruments in a quick, smooth, disciplined, scan, you are as good as dead. Accident records from around the world are replete with reports of any number of good pilots "i.e., professional instrument-rated pilots " who ?bought the farm' because they screwed up while flying in IFR conditions.
er, no...it takes an IFR pilot to legally do so!...but again, not all that hard...
...and again, a simple portable GPS system is all you need to bypass all of this stuff completely!
AND...more to this particular point...
...er, how about we duck down below the cloud Rocky...du, huh?... :mj06:
Let me re-ittereate...he didn't have to start it up, taxi, take-off, communicate (with anyone!!...oh, my Engerlish is so farking barddd!)...
...navigate (below 10, 000)...slow down, configure for landing, fly a perfect circuit...hold in a pattern, line up in turn, fly a final...land!
...he just had to steer the fucking thing!!
Conspiracy...
...due to this evidence, fail I'm afraid. :sadwave:
[Unless, of course, that I'm some kind of flying genius! :00hour ]
Oh, and PS...just for the hell of it...
...S-A, you're clearly not my favourite poster...
...but I actually laughed at the emu!
Nice work. :142smilie (And may this be the last nice thing I ever say about ye... kurby )
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Well, they may have found the remains of one at Ground Zero had it not been vapourised by the nuke... :0corn
No idea mate, but like I said, hardly necessary anyway.
Every cockpit, even on ultra-modern heavy jets have a good old fashioned (well...digital, but none-the-less still simple to read!) compass.
Take over a plane, point east...find the coast, head south... :mj06:
Hey, I'm not specifically saying it DID happen :00x31
...just that (IMHO of course!) it is entirely, 100% possible.
No idea mate, but like I said, hardly necessary anyway.
Every cockpit, even on ultra-modern heavy jets have a good old fashioned (well...digital, but none-the-less still simple to read!) compass.
Take over a plane, point east...find the coast, head south... :mj06:
Hey, I'm not specifically saying it DID happen :00x31
...just that (IMHO of course!) it is entirely, 100% possible.
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what happened again ?
:0corn
