Transparency?

The Sponge

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u laugh because they have u right were they want u . Not once have I said the Democrats are this so called great party but if u think those pricks u vote for are somehow on the side of the working people in this country then what more is need to be said. If you think they are on the side of small business then like i said what more needs to be said.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Where is this tranparency that Dems promised on this stimulus bull? We were supposed to have 48 hours of access, and now the 780 page bill will be voted on this morning. How can legislators be expected to read this 780 page bill in 12 hours? Oh, I forgot, that is the point.

What's with all of the broken promises? No lobbyists need apply! Transparency!

WTF??? Any other reasonable folks dissapointed at the moment, or is it just me and the skulfuck twins??

I'm still waiting for them to put up the new Schip bill they passed. We had medicade and Schip plan to cover impoverished children--this new amendment increased those qualification of those now eligible to those withincomes over %300 poverty level --families earning $100,000 in some states--and believe now the age of "the children has been raised to 29.
Wheres the report/transparency:shrug:

We have only had one bill to my knowledge in past 20 years that has reduced gov spending--and added millions to employment--and that being the welfare reform act in the 90's.

This admin with it's new schip qualifications plus added welfare entitlements in new spendulous bill has reveresed the best bill passed in decades in its 1st 100 days.
 

Chadman

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Wayne, although I am just hearing bits and pieces of the legislation - mainly conservative hosts talking about it - the issues with welfare (at least what the pundits are reporting) bother me a lot. It's one of the issues that irritate me the most about the left, dropping a limit of time to draw benefits, or requiring work after a time, whatever it might be. There is absolutely no good reason that I can find that a five year limitation on drawing welfare isn't fair and sensible. I completely understand and in many cases favor some welfare for those starting out in tough circumstances - I personally look at part of my taxes as a kind of charity (to each their own on this, I understand), but the eternal pattern of poverty and not requiring something for complete welfare and benefits just cannot be a positive way to allow people to live. I think I've mentioned in the past my wife, who for a short period drew some governmental benefits as she was a single mother and was attending college and then law school, and because of those benefits was able to become the awesome woman she is today. Many, sadly, don't have her pride nor drive. I at one time was eligible for benefits due to the situation I allowed myself to be in, but I could not bring myself to do it. It certainly would have been easier, but I also had a pretty solid support system with parents on both sides, and growing up watching a father who worked nearly every day of his life. Many do not have either, though, and that's where it becomes tough for me to just write those people off, at least with a sensible time duration.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Wayne, although I am just hearing bits and pieces of the legislation - mainly conservative hosts talking about it - the issues with welfare (at least what the pundits are reporting) bother me a lot. It's one of the issues that irritate me the most about the left, dropping a limit of time to draw benefits, or requiring work after a time, whatever it might be. There is absolutely no good reason that I can find that a five year limitation on drawing welfare isn't fair and sensible. I completely understand and in many cases favor some welfare for those starting out in tough circumstances - I personally look at part of my taxes as a kind of charity (to each their own on this, I understand), but the eternal pattern of poverty and not requiring something for complete welfare and benefits just cannot be a positive way to allow people to live. I think I've mentioned in the past my wife, who for a short period drew some governmental benefits as she was a single mother and was attending college and then law school, and because of those benefits was able to become the awesome woman she is today. Many, sadly, don't have her pride nor drive. I at one time was eligible for benefits due to the situation I allowed myself to be in, but I could not bring myself to do it. It certainly would have been easier, but I also had a pretty solid support system with parents on both sides, and growing up watching a father who worked nearly every day of his life. Many do not have either, though, and that's where it becomes tough for me to just write those people off, at least with a sensible time duration.

1st On your wife Chad--we did discuss that before and she would be perfect example of what it was intended for --in addition she has excelled and paid enough in taxes to give helping hand to numerous others.
Unfortunately examples such as she are far and few between--it is those that choose welfare as way of life that I would not give a plug nickel too.
--and yes most that I have read on stimulous has been financial pubs or right wing media--which is a little disturbing that only thing we here from Dem side is very vaque--will create x amount of jobs etc.
Was reading that none of the senators reb or dem read the 1000+pages before voting--wonder how either could vote yes or no and not know the entire substance--one reason I wish they would have waited to review it before rushing it to a vote.
What I would like to know and have been unable to find out--is names of people that were responsible for writing bill. Too many people including O putting to much confidence in too few.
---and along with who wrote it--I'd be curious to when they wrote it--takes a long time to come up with 1000 pages of agenda-they had this on the burner for some time--if you know what I mean.
 

Jaxx

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Stevie maybe Barrick is just doing it so these pigs show their true colors. Lets face it one party sides with corruption and greed and the other sides with the working people. There will never come a day when there will not be partisan politics. This same scum who spent us into tremendous debt now has a big concern about spending. I said this would happen. Its not spending they are worried about it is the middle class getting stronger which would be their problem. These are dirt bags who should be hanging from a rope but we got nitwits who they con over and over again. WTF good is a tax cut if nobody is coming into ur business to buy anything? Just look at these hypocrite righties on this site. They just want to make me puke with their stupidity. You got a guy like that little righty Kneif who wants to try to con idiots into believing that Bush had the economy thriving but most have lost half of their life saving. :shrug: You got Weasel collecting disability but shooting from the hip like he some how owns a fortune 500 company.:shrug: You have another righty Rolltide who couldn't understand why his insurance company didnt pick up the cost of his surgery but preaches personal responsibility.:shrug: Then you have DTB fighting with his life to get another tax break for a billionaire when he is a middle class citizen.:shrug: we are not up against politicians. We are up against the guys who are so easily conned that this country has to die to make some progress. Guys who watch Fox news and can't realize they are being played like complete fools. There is no hope in this unless the dems get 60 votes in the senate and im sure as soon as they do the Southern ones will jump ship. Do you remember just a few short years ago the Repulicans conned the Dems into no more fillibusters? Now that is all these no good cocksuckers do under the guise of somehow they are fighting for the country? They couldn't give two shits about the country and would sell their soul to have partisan politics. At least my Senator from Pa showed he had a mind of his own as well as some balls and once again told the other Republicans to go fuck themselves. I hope Barrick just slams bill after bill past these crooked no good fuks.

You are a brain washed idiot. End of story.
 

deadeye

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sponge get back on your meds dude; you're scaring me. the hate is oozing out of your pores. bush forget his conservative core values; most of us conservatives realize that. give it a rest. like it or not we are all in this together. i don't see how obama is gonna get us through this with what he is doing but he is my president. if anybody threw a shoe at him i'd attempt to kick their ass.
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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I'm still waiting for them to put up the new Schip bill they passed. We had medicade and Schip plan to cover impoverished children--this new amendment increased those qualification of those now eligible to those withincomes over %300 poverty level --families earning $100,000 in some states--and believe now the age of "the children has been raised to 29.
Wheres the report/transparency:shrug:

We have only had one bill to my knowledge in past 20 years that has reduced gov spending--and added millions to employment--and that being the welfare reform act in the 90's.

This admin with it's new schip qualifications plus added welfare entitlements in new spendulous bill has reveresed the best bill passed in decades in its 1st 100 days
.

Looks like I'm not by myself==
Times online out with similiar--however more elquent article today-maybe a plagerism suit here :)
===================

February 15, 2009

Obama warned over ?welfare spendathon?
The new administration's economic stimulus plan may undo reforms that cut the dole queues, critics say

RONALD REAGAN started it, Bill Clinton finished it and last week Barack Obama was accused of engineering its destruction. One of the few undisputed triumphs of American government of the past 20 years ? the sweeping welfare reform programme that sent millions of dole claimants back to work ? has been plunged into jeopardy by billions of dollars in state handouts included in the president?s controversial economic stimulus package.
As Obama celebrated Valentine?s Day yesterday with a return to his Chicago home for a private weekend with family and friends, his success in piloting a $785 billion (?546 billion) stimulus package through Congress was being overshadowed by warnings that an unprecedented increase in welfare spending would undermine two decades of bipartisan attempts to reduce dependency on government handouts.

Robert Rector, a prominent welfare researcher who was one of the architects of Clinton's 1996 reform bill, warned last week that Obama?s stimulus plan was a ?welfare spendathon? that would amount to the largest one-year increase in government handouts in American history.

Douglas Besharov, author of a big study on welfare reform, said the stimulus bill passed by Congress and the Senate in separate votes on Friday would ?unravel? most of the 1996 reforms that led to a 65% reduction in welfare caseloads and prompted the British and several other governments to consider similar measures.

Related Links
Obama muses on Republican relationship
Though some researchers have questioned the true impact of Clinton?s ?workfare? reforms, they were wildly popular with millions of US taxpayers tired of subsidising what many saw as a generation of slackers.

Despite dire warnings that reduced benefits for single mothers and deadlines on entitlement would create a social calamity ? one liberal senator warned at the time that children would be ?sleeping on grates? ? the 1996 reforms cut welfare rolls from more than 5m families in 1995 to below 2m a decade later without a discernible increase in hardship.

In the American political lexicon, welfare has since become a dirty word ? often referred to as the W word ? and nothing arouses US tabloid ire more than the hint that taxpayers? money is being wasted.

When it emerged that Nadya Suleman, the mother of octuplets born in Los Angeles last month, was a ?single mom? with six children already and was relying on welfare assistance, she was transformed overnight from fertility goddess to the target of death threats.

Obama argued last week that his bill was essential for reviving the US economy and protecting victims of the credit crunch. Yet his Republican rivals have seized on the billions lavished on new welfare spending to stir the conservative faithful from their postelection misery and reunite the opposition.

?If you like government dependence, you will love the plan they are jamming through Congress,? declared Michael Steele, the new chairman of the Republican National Committee.

Rector, a senior scholar at the conservative Heritage Foundation, argued that Obama?s spending proposals in effect encouraged individual states to add more families to their welfare rolls; the more Americans sign on to the dole, the more state budgets will benefit from US Treasury payouts.

?They have completely overturned the fiscal and policy foundations of welfare reform,? Rector complained.

Supporters of the bill argue that the current crisis is so grave that intellectual quibbling about the nature of welfare has to take second place to the upheaval transforming millions of American lives.

?How can you tell someone who has lost his income to look for another job if there aren't any more jobs?? asked one Obama backer.

While some scholars are beginning to suspect that Clinton?s welfare reforms were fatally flawed ? or at least viable only during an economic boom ? Republicans are not alone in fearing that Obama?s hastily concocted package is the first step towards the creation of a quasi-socialist welfare state.

Even Mickey Kaus, a prominent liberal blogger, has denounced what he describes as the ?get more people on welfare? provisions of Obama?s bill. Writing at Slate, the political website, Kaus said: ?Lack of jobs isn?t a reason to loosen work requirements . . . Have the Dems never heard of ?workfare??

?Give recipients useful community service work, and if they do the work, then they get the [welfare] cash.?

Returning to Chicago for the first time since his inauguration last month, there were other pressing matters on Obama?s mind ? not to mention the minds of millions of Americans still enthralled by his every move. Where would he take his wife Michelle for a romantic Valentine?s dinner? How much time would he spend in the gym? Would he fit in a game of basketball?

Opinion polls last week showed that for all his administration?s errors in his first three weeks in office, the new president has lost little of his personal appeal. He continues to enjoy an average 64% approval rating.

Yet after another fracas over the withdrawal of the Republican senator Judd Gregg as Obama?s choice for commerce secretary ? the second time a nominee has given up the post ? Obama?s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, was obliged to insist that it was not ?amateur hour? at the White House.

Obama also stumbled over a curious claim that his stimulus plan would enable Caterpillar, one of America?s leading manufacturers of heavy earth-moving equipment, to start rehiring workers. He was promptly contradicted by the company?s chief executive, who said he had no such intention and was planning more lay-offs.

The dangers are beginning to pile up for the novice president and his struggling economic crew. Tim Geithner, his treasury secretary, tripped up with opaque attempts to explain how the administration would fix the banking crisis, while from every corner of the country there were alarming indications that increased government intervention in the lives of ordinary Americans could prove an invitation to waste.

In Wisconsin, the state that forged a pioneering path in welfare reforms in the 1990s, residents were astonished by a newspaper investigation that disclosed that a $340m (?236m) programme offering taxpayer-financed child care to low-income working parents was riddled with fraud and expensive loopholes.

In one case, a family of four sisters who had 17 children between them put all of them together, took it in turns to babysit them and over the past three years claimed $540,000 (?374,000) in perfectly legal state childcare subsidies.

Examples like that fuel American suspicion that so-called ?big government? invariably turns out to be inefficient, expensive and easily exploitable. And there has been no bigger government action in the US than the stimulus package presented by Obama.

Few dispute the need for some kind of stimulus, but has Obama got the details right? The Republicans do not think so and, led by Gregg, they are already shunning the president?s bipartisan overtures.

Perhaps more worrying for the president is that some of his natural liberal supporters are not feeling all that confident either. In a telling commentary last week, Paul Krugman, the 2008 Nobel prize-winning economist, declared that Obama?s stimulus victory ?feels more than a bit like defeat?.

Krugman added: ?I?ve got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ? a feeling that America just isn?t rising to the greatest economic challenge in 70 years.?
 

THE KOD

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Krugman added: ?I?ve got a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach ? a feeling that America just isn?t rising to the greatest economic challenge in 70 years.?

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:142smilie :142smilie


Hey dtb did you see the 20/20 show this weekend on Kentucky Appalachia .

holy shit are them neighbors of yours ?:scared
 

THE KOD

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090308-1352-donaldstake2.jpg


hey dtb what you think about that welfare we been a gettin

dtb - you wont get it any more you meth heads

uh how about we take you to the woodshed then dtb ?

how you feel about some kentucky home cookin
 

DOGS THAT BARK

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Heres some good news for you and your's Scott.

O got on Garrett Major (fox reporter) in Q&A with reporters last week about Fox network having no programing on for you and your brothers.

Fox came out next day and acknowledged same and agreed to run late night reruns of America's Most Wanted-7 days a week. :SIB
 

THE KOD

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February 15, 2009

Stimulus bill was 'a bad beginning' for Obama, says McCain

CNN's John King sat down with Sen. John McCain in Phoenix, Arizona. Watch Part 1 of McCain's interview.

(CNN) ? Arizona Sen. John McCain did not pull any punches in assessing a major milestone in his former rival?s nascent presidency.

?It was a bad beginning,? McCain said Sunday of the legislative process that resulted in the $787 billion stimulus bill recently passed by Congress. ?It was a bad beginning because it wasn?t what we promised the American people, what President Obama promised the American people ? that we would sit down together.?

While McCain said he appreciated the fact that Obama came to Capitol Hill to speak with House Republicans about the stimulus bill. But, ?that?s not how you negotiate a result.? Instead, ?you sit down in a room with competing proposals? and ?almost all of our proposals went down on a party-line vote?

?I hope the next time we will sit down together and conduct truly bipartisan negotiations. This was not a bipartisan bill.?

But the former Republican presidential nominee was also critical of how his own party had conducted itself in the past when it came to bipartisanship.

?Republicans were guilty of this kind of behavior,? McCain said. ?I?m not saying that we did things different. But Americans want us to do things differently and they want us to work together.?

The stimulus bill which Obama will sign Tuesday is ?incredibly expensive,? McCain also said. ?It has hundreds of billions of dollars in projects which will not yield in jobs,? McCain told CNN Chief National Correspondent John King. ?This was supposed to be a package that was going to create jobs.?

McCain also spoke about the potential long-term effects of the stimulus bill.

?We are committing generational theft,? McCain said. ?We are laying a huge deficit on future generations of Americans.?

Failure to bring the federal government?s spending back in line with its revenue once the economy improves could lead to inflation and debasement of the dollar down the road, McCain also told King.

McCain, who has represented the border state of Arizona in the Senate for more than two decades, also discussed illegal immigration on State of the Union.

.......................................................

357 Comments | Add a comment | Permalink



James February 15th, 2009 12:30 pm ET

But John remember W wanted something very similar. I just bet all the R's would have voted for it if it were their bill.

this grumpy old grandpa should drink some Metamucil and take a nap! he is just talking trash because he isn't president. its a strategy. if repulicans can make obama seem bad in any way, they have some sort of platform. they are just preping for the 2012 election?.he needs to take one of his wife's chill pills and take a nap. nobody cares what this dude thinks.


spoken like the jealous partisan loser that he is?
bitter , old, resentful multiple loser
Thank the Lucky Stars this man and that trailer park woman did not become leaders of this country


Thomas Collins February 15th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

IF tax cuts are such a great way to help the Economy, why didn't republicans offer them to Wall street??? Oh, thats right, they really DON't ADD anything??


Shawn February 15th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

If it were up to McCain, he would have used the bailout money to buy more clothes for Sarah Palin!!!


Betty February 15th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

Shut up McBush. You did nothing all your years in Washington. Now all of a sudden you have knowledge you didn't know you had. What an idiot. I live in Arizona and I will not be voting for this has been. Time to go home and retire. SEE YA JERK

Terry February 15th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

Do republicans remember their "money to nowhere" bill ? It was supposed to bailout financial institutions. This is a bill they pushed down the throats of the American people. Why doesn't McCain and his cronies' talk about that waste of a trillion dollars?


Edward February 15th, 2009 12:29 pm ET

Some Republican guest when asked on MSNBC how come they, the Republicans, didn't sound off on Bush's wasteful spending stated that the president doesn't spend a dime, that congress are the ones who spend money and that Dems have controlled congress for the last 2 years. I was wondering why no one called him on the fact that Republicans controlled congress for 6 whole years and squandered a trillion dollar plus surplus turning it into the largest national debt that our country has ever seen. Yet they feel as if they have some sort of high ground when it comes to spending policy, give me a break ? do they think that people have such short memories?

Amie February 15th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

John, STOP WHINING ALREADY. You LOST. GET OVER IT. TAKE A BLUE PILL and make love to your HOT, RICH, WIFE.


andy February 15th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

lets see the republican have no ideas no clues and just say no over and over again. then complain that it isnt bi partasian. give me a break.

the republican party had the money to reseed the national mall taken from the bill. they are in favor of turning this national monument symbol of our freedom into a vacant lot looking eyesore.

the republican party had the money to stop the spread of STDs removed from the bill. the republican party is in favor of spreading STDs.

the republican party voted against tax breaks to the american public and business. in their rush to oppose the president they have become the party of high taxes.


Joyce February 15th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

shut up McCain. You make my skin crawl. Voice sounds like he's about to break down & cry.


lowell February 15th, 2009 12:28 pm ET

now we know why that he was not elected


Joe Price February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Conceding the presidential election on November 4, 2008, John McCain said, "I pledge to [Barack Obama] tonight to do all in my power to help him lead us through the many challenges we face." If going on television to criticize President Obama following the first legislative process of his administration is McCain's idea of help, then, once again, thank goodness the voters of the nation chose not to put him in charge. While the economy continues to sink, Republicans ridiculously persist in political gaming outmoded by Obama's election. Sour grapes? Or, perhaps, failure to understand that we the people have said we prefer a new kind of politician? Get with it, Republicans, or get out.

Brad February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Why are we still listening to these guys from the Republican Party? McCain and his party have zero credibility, and would rather see the stimulus plan fail than the economy begin to improve.


J. Winters February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

John McCain is truly one of the most hypocritical inconsistent and frankly dumb politician in Washington today. Can you imagine a more frightful thing than McCain trying to deal with the mess that HIS party and HIS President left. Even now when it's crucial that we need to work together, Mr. McCain- a so so war hero- just can't get with the program.
Go home, go home go home go home go home go home go home.
That's seven homes John the Loser.

R. Stanton February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

McCain seems to forget about the TRILLION dollar Iraq war he and his GOP cronies so happily went along with. Spending on a war based on a LIE was A-OK with the GOP as long as the top 2% were the ones benefiting.


Kelsey February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

He's just upset because he didn't get to be President.


Marlene Curtis February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Just two words say it all

B A D L O S E R !!!


henry krinkle February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Senator McCain?..Exactly?and I do mean EXACTLY?what would you have done differently? Be specific?not some nonsense like, "I would have spent less and created more jobs.' And while we're at it?what do you personally intend to contribute to solving our current problems? We've had all the critique we need, and then some. So, roll up your sleeves and be part of the solution?.more work, less 'blame'.


me February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

As if McCain could do any better.


andres February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

bush, and the republican congress during those 8 years committed the generational theft. They pushed us into this mess and then when it came down to trying to fix things, the republicans balked at any spending? any being the key word. Bush on the other hand was given a free hand to spend, and he did so but in other countries? who benefits from that? not us.


John February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

I'm sickened by the smear tactics of the Republican party.


Mike Brown February 15th, 2009 12:27 pm ET

Who can blame McCain for thinking Obama's off to a bad start? But Obama did get his stimulus package through, give him that

................................................................

Lets make a list of sore losers

dtb
gw
freeze
hedgehog
Skulnik
stp

and John McCain

go figure:142smilie :142smilie
 
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